Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
NP whatcha have in mind for the burro ??
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Small typo there Mike...try this one [email protected]
GOOD MORN"Nhave your hotTo understand how there became a place like victorio peak to house a fantastic treasure, you have to look at the person or persons that made those claims of such a find, and why they let the story
out to start with. I am not going to give my opinion, or the truths that I discovered,I already did that in the beginning of this thread , but I will tell you if you are on the right path, evidence is everything. np
This Jack Reynolds character is alleged to be the one who had the maps - Willie killing him to get possession, and Doc Noss also entering the picture soon after. NP, is Reynolds a real person, do we know he actually existed?
Let's go off on yet another tangent. Here's some interesting name coincidences. Two Reynolds brothers, reported to have ridden with Quantrill, operated as a robbery gang - sort of like the James Gang - in Colorado in the 1860s. They are reported to have had some dealings in the Spanish Peaks area of SE Colorado, "home" of the LUE treasure. Those who follow these things claim that the Reynolds Gang is part of the KGC, which is reputed to be a secret group with knowledge of lots of hidden treasures in the west. If he existed, is it possible Jack Reynolds is a descendant, and possibly a KGC agent?
Milton Noss also went by the name of Tom Starr in Oklahoma. Oklahoma is the home of Belle Starr and Henry Starr, two outlaws who also are claimed to have been mixed up with the KGC after the Civil War. Is it possible Noss (Starr) was a KGC agent?
One of the KGC rumors is that they assisted (or were) a Confederate attachment of soldiers that removed the Maximilian/Carlotta treasure from Mexico and brought it into the US. This treasure, or part of it, is pinned to artifacts that Noss claimed to have removed from Victorio Peak, or maybe even the Caballos. Is it possible that the Caballos/Victorio Peak stories deal with a KGC treasure?
Just thinking out loud here. First things first - did Jack Reynolds exist?
this is all extremely interesting ! however i have a question for us all . although i realize that the stories and the research are perhaps the hardest part of this little gig we all share. what on earth does this any of this have to do with figuring out just who the original folks were who deposited this treasure that we are trying to figure out?
For those that still think there was nothing in VP, here is an excerpt from a Las Cruces, NM newspaper article regarding Benny Samaniego and Jose Serafin Sedillo.
<cut>
One thing I brought away from going back to square one is that all these suppositions and theories are just that. Unproved allegations. While it is possible some might be true, listen to the first hand sources. Read what Benny and Jose said THEY SAW! Listen to Ova: <cut>
Did you listen closely? Did you hear Ova say that Doc thought the bars were "Pig Iron"? Did you hear Ova say that she asked Doc to bring up one of those bars of "Pig Iron" in about 1939? That was two years after he first went into VP. She states specifically that Doc concentrated on bringing up Jewelry and Coins in the beginning.
Think what you want, but listen to the people who were there. It's very easy to just say they were lying.
Mike
So has anyone spoken to Manny's family about the fate of the armor he liked to wear that Noss gave him? Does the family still hold it? An analysis of it might help put a date on some of this.
Perhaps a specialist in Spanish armor could look at the photos and offer an opinion as well...
We can certainly agree that Samaniego, Sedillo and Jolley received gold bars, and old armor in Samaniego's case, for assisting Noss at VP. Those facts are fairly well established, but the question of where those items originated is not conclusively established in my view.
Noss of course was noted as a serial liar, which is the gist of this discussion, and he is the only person alleged to have been in the treasure room. Yes, I know Samaniego claims he was there too, but since Benny seems to have sought out publicity over the affair later (riding in parades showing off the armor, for example), it always was my suspicion that he merely parroted Boss's description of what was allegedly in the peak to further bolster his image. Understandable, and probably done in good faith.
As far as Ova is concerned, she just repeated everything Doc told her. Then, after he dumped her, sadly soldiered on believing what he told her. She wasn't a liar, nor were Doc's helpers (well, Benny likely fibbed a little), they were merely repeating Doc's probable lies with honest intentions. Con men are convincing.
As you said, "all these suppositions and theories are just that. Unproved allegations."
SDCFIA,
Okay. Once again, listen to Ova. After two years, Ova asked Doc to bring up a bar of "Pig Iron". When Doc got it up to the top, he said that was the last time he would bring up one of those things. Ova couldn't even lift it. That means it must have weighed 40 or 50 pounds. So, you believe that Doc dragged about 300 40-50 pound dore bars all the way up that 400' hill. Down into the shaft. Then dragged these 40-50 pound bars back up this shaft all for a show? I don't buy it for a second. ESPECIALLY since Benny Samaniego testified that he saw the bars AND treasure inside VP where Doc said it was. Sorry, but VP was the ORIGINAL SOURCE for Doc's Treasure.
Now, after he started having problems with the Government regarding VP, did he hit Willie's Cave or did he find another accumulation room in the Caballos? To me, that is the big question.
Mike