DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[kanabite]

NP , i guess my interest in VP has always been more about what really happened . did the army or whomever truck some vast treasure away or have we all been deceived? im not going with my boots on the ground on this particular subject , I've wore out about every kind of foot wear you can imagine looking for this kind of stuff in my life, and rumor has it New Mexico already has plenty of crazy treasure hunters in it without adding me.
Ive heard things i cannot repeat about stuff down there , even seen some stuff i wanted nothing to do with, however the source of that treasure depending on what story you care to go with, is most fascinating. that's assuming there is or was really something to it . if even some of the stories have some basis in fact and not just a scam of never ending proportions, then i am more interested in the possibility of other places in the southwest having similar deposits. Ive always kind of thought , and maybe even been influenced into thinking that whatever the original group, or tribe , or species or intelligent life form that stashed treasure in a cavern in that low hill complete with a very distinguishing feature that i can see in the pictures of it ,then maybe they may have done it other places as well . i am having a hard time typing with my arm in a sling right now , and the compound sentences are beyond my ability to fix at this juncture , so i hope i answered your question. if there was a treasure , then perhaps the instructions to find it are also there , but i would start by trying to find those first , and there is a pretty good chance that if they exist they are written in stone . but hey it could all just be whiskey talk ya know . take care.///bob

PS did Springfield leave treasure net? I took a sabbatical from the internet forums this past summer and it looks like i missed allot of drama . and when are the mods gonna let rog back in ? cause it is kind of ******ed to kick out folks who actually have first hand knowledge about this stuff, hey just one administrators opinion take it for what its worth, not tying to violate the rules ya know.thanks

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Kanabite---- Jesuits, not native tribes

 

[kanabite]

Kanabite---- Jesuits, not native tribes

hi real i really have no problem with your Jesuits being involved , but for reasons i cannot go into i would be of the opinion that the hording part and collecting of whatever, started long before they ever came upon the scene, but like so many other things we are left with speculation and not proof. thank you for the coffee but i need to go to bed amigo ..

 

[johnmark29020]

NP , i guess my interest in VP has always been more about what really happened . did the army or whomever truck some vast treasure away or have we all been deceived? im not going with my boots on the ground on this particular subject , I've wore out about every kind of foot wear you can imagine looking for this kind of stuff in my life, and rumor has it New Mexico already has plenty of crazy treasure hunters in it without adding me.
Ive heard things i cannot repeat about stuff down there , even seen some stuff i wanted nothing to do with, however the source of that treasure depending on what story you care to go with, is most fascinating. that's assuming there is or was really something to it . if even some of the stories have some basis in fact and not just a scam of never ending proportions, then i am more interested in the possibility of other places in the southwest having similar deposits. Ive always kind of thought , and maybe even been influenced into thinking that whatever the original group, or tribe , or species or intelligent life form that stashed treasure in a cavern in that low hill complete with a very distinguishing feature that i can see in the pictures of it ,then maybe they may have done it other places as well . i am having a hard time typing with my arm in a sling right now , and the compound sentences are beyond my ability to fix at this juncture , so i hope i answered your question. if there was a treasure , then perhaps the instructions to find it are also there , but i would start by trying to find those first , and there is a pretty good chance that if they exist they are written in stone . but hey it could all just be whiskey talk ya know . take care.///bob

PS did Springfield leave treasure net? I took a sabbatical from the internet forums this past summer and it looks like i missed allot of drama . and when are the mods gonna let rog back in ? cause it is kind of ******ed to kick out folks who actually have first hand knowledge about this stuff, hey just one administrators opinion take it for what its worth, not tying to violate the rules ya know.thanks

I have wondered if the soliders in the vp story were under orders or were they working on their own. Using the excuse they were under orders to through everyone off.
A similar thing has happened in Iraq.
That could be why the army seems to have no idea what went on.
The armys has had its fair share of profiteers. When I served there was a guy who ran a general store out of his wall locker. Once a bunk mate lost his kevlar helmet. Bought a brand new one for half price. No questions asked. So I could see some guys using their jobs as cover.
I have maintained ever since I joined.
You need a warehouse for any major operation so I personally think there were/ are multiple hiding places across the south west.

 

[sdcfia]

These are exact maps of the area and bloody hands,
View attachment 1070571 View attachment 1070572
View attachment 1070573 View attachment 1070574
these are going to be the most detailed maps there are. np

NP, that map is of the Organ Mountains, not Hembrillo Basin.

 

[sdcfia]

NP , i guess my interest in VP has always been more about what really happened . did the army or whomever truck some vast treasure away or have we all been deceived? im not going with my boots on the ground on this particular subject , I've wore out about every kind of foot wear you can imagine looking for this kind of stuff in my life, and rumor has it New Mexico already has plenty of crazy treasure hunters in it without adding me.
Ive heard things i cannot repeat about stuff down there , even seen some stuff i wanted nothing to do with, however the source of that treasure depending on what story you care to go with, is most fascinating. that's assuming there is or was really something to it . if even some of the stories have some basis in fact and not just a scam of never ending proportions, then i am more interested in the possibility of other places in the southwest having similar deposits. Ive always kind of thought , and maybe even been influenced into thinking that whatever the original group, or tribe , or species or intelligent life form that stashed treasure in a cavern in that low hill complete with a very distinguishing feature that i can see in the pictures of it ,then maybe they may have done it other places as well . i am having a hard time typing with my arm in a sling right now , and the compound sentences are beyond my ability to fix at this juncture , so i hope i answered your question. if there was a treasure , then perhaps the instructions to find it are also there , but i would start by trying to find those first , and there is a pretty good chance that if they exist they are written in stone . but hey it could all just be whiskey talk ya know . take care.///bob

PS did Springfield leave treasure net? I took a sabbatical from the internet forums this past summer and it looks like i missed allot of drama . and when are the mods gonna let rog back in ? cause it is kind of ******ed to kick out folks who actually have first hand knowledge about this stuff, hey just one administrators opinion take it for what its worth, not tying to violate the rules ya know.thanks

Yes, kanabite, the source of the gold is the focus. That's the unknown and that's why this subject is so intriguing. The "treasure stories" that you can buy from people who weren't there is primarily entertainment. We'll never know exactly what happened in the Noss adventure because, unfortunately, the protagonist in this drama was a serial liar and most of the information available is primarily from him. When somebody sells you a third or fourth-hand story, who benefits? Caveat emptor.

By the way, you're the second guy who has recently had "a secret" that you "can't reveal" about VP. Do you seriously think people swallow that? I understand that some people like to impress others with their standing by requiring "confidentiality" for revealing information, but all this does is reduce the recipient's credibility when he later hints at the "big secret" to others. Why even taunt others this way? It makes you, the recipient, seem less credible because you "can't" deliver. That's one reason I respect Roger Snow - despite his erratic toying, he never held back.

 

[mdog]

Yes, kanabite, the source of the gold is the focus. That's the unknown and that's why this subject is so intriguing. The "treasure stories" that you can buy from people who weren't there is primarily entertainment. We'll never know exactly what happened in the Noss adventure because, unfortunately, the protagonist in this drama was a serial liar and most of the information available is primarily from him. When somebody sells you a third or fourth-hand story, who benefits? Caveat emptor.

By the way, you're the second guy who has recently had "a secret" that you "can't reveal" about VP. Do you seriously think people swallow that? I understand that some people like to impress others with their standing by requiring "confidentiality" for revealing information, but all this does is reduce the recipient's credibility when he later hints at the "big secret" to others. Why even taunt others this way? It makes you, the recipient, seem less credible because you "can't" deliver. That's one reason I respect Roger Snow - despite his erratic toying, he never held back.

There are many reasons that information can't be revealed, a promise to somebody else, protection of an historic site and maybe even to keep people from putting themselves in danger. But I like it when somebody suggests that there might be something else to look for because that encourages me to keep looking for clues.

I look for geological formations that might have some religious significance to ancient cultures. Something like the Kneeling Nun formation that is west of Victorio Peak, a tall rock column, up high but probably not the highest spot in the area.

 

[gollum]

Yes, kanabite, the source of the gold is the focus. That's the unknown and that's why this subject is so intriguing. The "treasure stories" that you can buy from people who weren't there is primarily entertainment. We'll never know exactly what happened in the Noss adventure because, unfortunately, the protagonist in this drama was a serial liar and most of the information available is primarily from him. When somebody sells you a third or fourth-hand story, who benefits? Caveat emptor.

By the way, you're the second guy who has recently had "a secret" that you "can't reveal" about VP. Do you seriously think people swallow that? I understand that some people like to impress others with their standing by requiring "confidentiality" for revealing information, but all this does is reduce the recipient's credibility when he later hints at the "big secret" to others. Why even taunt others this way? It makes you, the recipient, seem less credible because you "can't" deliver. That's one reason I respect Roger Snow - despite his erratic toying, he never held back.

SDCFIA,

While I agree that we can't trust what Doc said to be gospel, there are other things that lend credence to his stories.

1. Willie Doughitt(Larry Foreman)= While not knowing exactly anything, what we do know is that the man lived in San Diego from about 1933 until 1998. Did not have a job. He paid for treatment of his brain tumor out of his own pocket, and when he died, his estate was still $3.5 million. To me THAT says something.

2. Tony Jolley= Helped Doc rebury 110 gold bars the night before he was murdered. He went back several years later and recovered (at least) ten of those bars. Used the money to buy the ranch he willed to his son.

3. Capt Orby Swanner= After witnessing the military remove approximately 93 million troy ounces of gold bars from VP, he eventually signed a notarized affidavit to that effect. The Military called him a liar, and said he was never at VP. In 1992 when Operation Goldfinder got into a sealed lower cavern, they found Orby Swanner's name sooted onto a wall EXACTLY like Swanner claimed.

4. Capt Fiege and Capt Berlette= These two along with two friends found a cave at the base of VP that contained piles of gold bars. When they reported the find to their chain of command, they were made to take polygraph tests to help validate their claims and the fact that they swore they did not remove any of the bars. They passed the polygraphs.

5. Benny Samaniego= Besides having Spanish Armor that Doc gave him at VP, he was also given one gold bar which was used to pay cash for a house.

Just a few of the things that keep me interested. Although I highly doubt that the Military left anything inside VP. I believe they completely emptied it out in 1961.

....................... and one other thing. Here is where Roger and I agree 100%. Nobody OWES anything to anyone here. What information I share is completely up to me. What I do share has nothing to do with making me seem important. I don't mind helping someone when I can. Because of what knowledge I have in several areas, I am involved with several people working more than a couple of treasure hunting or archaeological projects in several states. If I am working in confidence on a particular project, I can share what knowledge I personally have separate from that project, but not anything I know from the project itself. Kind of a fine line sometimes. When I feel I hit that point, I say so. I've been doing this a long time, and I am as good as my word. I never share anything I have been asked not to. So, what you may feel about someone saying they can't share more than a certain amount of info because of promises made or confidences held may have some validity. Because of my situations, I take people at their word (unless proven otherwise). You shouldn't automatically assume someone is just trying to look important because they say they can share one thing and not another.

Mike

 

[kanabite]

Yes, kanabite, the source of the gold is the focus. That's the unknown and that's why this subject is so intriguing. The "treasure stories" that you can buy from people who weren't there is primarily entertainment. We'll never know exactly what happened in the Noss adventure because, unfortunately, the protagonist in this drama was a serial liar and most of the information available is primarily from him. When somebody sells you a third or fourth-hand story, who benefits? Caveat emptor.
By the way, you're the second guy who has recently had "a secret" that you "can't reveal" about VP. Do you seriously think people swallow that? I understand that some people like to impress others with their standing by requiring "confidentiality" for revealing information, but all this does is reduce the recipient's credibility when he later hints at the "big secret" to others. Why even taunt others this way? It makes you, the recipient, seem less credible because you "can't" deliver. That's one reason I respect Roger Snow - despite his erratic toying, he never held back.

if i told you that i believe someone tried to get me involved with either a sting operation or perhaps it was a con,because i do not know and do not care to know , could we leave it at that . i have no desire to be involved in clandestine , shady going ons in new mexico. i don't do this stuff for money , i use to do it for the love of the game , however that all changed somewhere in about 2003. at a place somewhere far away from NM. i had my eyes opened to what it is really like . yes it is true i have resources like many of us here do , but i am bound by this impossible code of honor , to do whatever i can to keep other people research safe and to avoid the temptation of pimping it off as my own. i am not trying to impress anyone , because i just do not care about the treasure part so much anymore. what i want is to know the truth , the how and the why. what ever secrets may still be buried in new mexico , are probably going to stay that way , cause when you get too close to something real , the stuff seems to have a funny way of disappearing. and sometimes so do the people .

 

[sdcfia]

SDCFIA,

While I agree that we can't trust what Doc said to be gospel, there are other things that lend credence to his stories.

1. Willie Doughitt(Larry Foreman)= While not knowing exactly anything, what we do know is that the man lived in San Diego from about 1933 until 1998. Did not have a job. He paid for treatment of his brain tumor out of his own pocket, and when he died, his estate was still $3.5 million. To me THAT says something.

2. Tony Jolley= Helped Doc rebury 110 gold bars the night before he was murdered. He went back several years later and recovered (at least) ten of those bars. Used the money to buy the ranch he willed to his son.

3. Capt Orby Swanner= After witnessing the military remove approximately 93 million troy ounces of gold bars from VP, he eventually signed a notarized affidavit to that effect. The Military called him a liar, and said he was never at VP. In 1992 when Operation Goldfinder got into a sealed lower cavern, they found Orby Swanner's name sooted onto a wall EXACTLY like Swanner claimed.

4. Capt Fiege and Capt Berlette= These two along with two friends found a cave at the base of VP that contained piles of gold bars. When they reported the find to their chain of command, they were made to take polygraph tests to help validate their claims and the fact that they swore they did not remove any of the bars. They passed the polygraphs.

5. Benny Samaniego= Besides having Spanish Armor that Doc gave him at VP, he was also given one gold bar which was used to pay cash for a house.

Just a few of the things that keep me interested. Although I highly doubt that the Military left anything inside VP. I believe they completely emptied it out in 1961.

....................... and one other thing. Here is where Roger and I agree 100%. Nobody OWES anything to anyone here. What information I share is completely up to me. What I do share has nothing to do with making me seem important. I don't mind helping someone when I can. Because of what knowledge I have in several areas, I am involved with several people working more than a couple of treasure hunting or archaeological projects in several states. If I am working in confidence on a particular project, I can share what knowledge I personally have separate from that project, but not anything I know from the project itself. Kind of a fine line sometimes. When I feel I hit that point, I say so. I've been doing this a long time, and I am as good as my word. I never share anything I have been asked not to. So, what you may feel about someone saying they can't share more than a certain amount of info because of promises made or confidences held may have some validity. Because of my situations, I take people at their word (unless proven otherwise). You shouldn't automatically assume someone is just trying to look important because they say they can share one thing and not another.

Mike

Based on my post #572, I can accept your points 1,2,4 & 5. (1) Douthit may well have found gold in the Caballos. I'd like to know a whole lot more about that. Check. (2 & 5) Jolley and Samaniego may well have handled and acquired some of the gold bars that Noss possibly recovered, likely with Douthit, in the Caballos. Check. (4) As I said, Fiege and Berlette found 100 metal bars (likely gold). They could well have been stashed by Noss. Check. (3) Swanner? A notarized affidavit is not binding, or proof of anything. Sorry. One photo of the bars would give me pause, but not Swanner's word, who may be just a publicity seeking schmo for all we know. As I mentioned before, we have reasonably convincing circumstantial evidence that a couple hundred gold bars attributed to Noss may have been recovered in the environs of Victorio Peak.

Nobody is questioning your word. Mentioning privileged information or confidential sources really does nothing to further the discussion except to draw attention to yourself as an authority figure. If you're bound to a big secret, why not keep it to yourself?

 

[sdcfia]

Fencing Maximilian and Carlotta's jewels in NYC, 1900.

BIG DIAMOND SEIZURE - Two Mexicans Had Many Gems, One Reputed Worth $40,000. Said to Have Been Worn in the Crown of Emperor Maximilian -- Arrest of the Men Who Had Them. - View Article - NYTimes.com

 

[gollum]

Based on my post #572, I can accept your points 1,2,4 & 5. (1) Douthit may well have found gold in the Caballos. I'd like to know a whole lot more about that. Check. (2 & 5) Jolley and Samaniego may well have handled and acquired some of the gold bars that Noss possibly recovered, likely with Douthit, in the Caballos. Check. (4) As I said, Fiege and Berlette found 100 metal bars (likely gold). They could well have been stashed by Noss. Check. (3) Swanner? A notarized affidavit is not binding, or proof of anything. Sorry. One photo of the bars would give me pause, but not Swanner's word, who may be just a publicity seeking schmo for all we know. As I mentioned before, we have reasonably convincing circumstantial evidence that a couple hundred gold bars attributed to Noss may have been recovered in the environs of Victorio Peak.

Nobody is questioning your word. Mentioning privileged information or confidential sources really does nothing to further the discussion except to draw attention to yourself as an authority figure. If you're bound to a big secret, why not keep it to yourself?

First,

Love the article. Thanks for posting it.

I always wondered why Maxi didn't keep something on hand to try and bribe his way to freedom if caught. By this article, looks like he did. Makes a lot of sense that he kept some of the crown jewels handy, but looks like the executioners got the goods then killed him anyway. I will bet if they looked into the family history of the people that had the jewels, they would find those folk's ancestors were on site when Maxi was executed.

Being bound to a big secret doesn't mean that there isn't peripheral information that you/I can share. Like I said, I have a certain amount of knowledge on a subject (some subjects more and some subjects less). If someone is actively working on one of those subjects and asks for my assistance in their project (and I agree), I tend to keep everything gleaned from my association with that project under my hat. If I am posting some of my info on that subject online, and my info comes to an abrupt halt, I explain my abruptness by saying that anything else is privileged or that I can share. Nothing to do with looking authoritarian.

Also, when asked about information I think I can't/don't(want to) share, I say the same thing. What I don't do is make things up, and send people away.

Mike

 

[kanabite]

Fencing Maximilian and Carlotta's jewels in NYC, 1900.

BIG DIAMOND SEIZURE - Two Mexicans Had Many Gems, One Reputed Worth $40,000. Said to Have Been Worn in the Crown of Emperor Maximilian -- Arrest of the Men Who Had Them. - View Article - NYTimes.com

where is Springfield? i have heard him hint many times in the forums about newspaper articles and pesher code , (sorry bad spelling) was there any follow up to this story? lots of names and streets in that article. did these events really happen? i would think the KGC guys would have something to say about this article , for i know very little about that kind of stuffs. its probably nothing and i have just become cynical over the years. LOL
I am curious about the author of NP's maps he posted ? is that information secret , or is it from his own hand, from his own adventures ?

 

[kanabite]

k ignore the first part of my last question i think i figured it out

 

[kanabite]

kanabite, just curious ,but why would you want pictures of the red hands and not want to know whats around them, I have all the pictures of that entire area including the different red hand petroglyphs ,
including video's. but I do not post that stuff, besides, all that area is off limits .and no one will ever be allowed back there. LOL. np

so I'm just curious and no you do not owe me anything, do you have a copy of the picture of this place they are calling" bloody hands" before the dynamite redecoration project? why call it bloody hands anyway? ,i guess red ocher polychrome does have a goofy ring to it . but the pointy head, academic types do like funny names like that i guess seems to me real bloody hands would be black on a limestone face, cause blood does sometimes stain sedimentary rock black. i had this debate with a geologist once about a certain stain on rock , but enough with the tangents .lol this topic of conversation has been going on with a few of us for at least the past 14 years i know of, all across the internet and some posters here a lot longer than that . i realize that i am asking you to go out of your comfort zone maybe, but what is the purpose if we never make any progress? i guess im just a dreamer and think these forums can still be used for something more that just entertainment .but always be mindful the whole world can see what is written here.

any thoughts? anyone?

 

[kanabite]

 

[Not Peralta]

kanabite, If you had read any thing to do with myself, you would know I have no secrets , and I do not hunt any more, I am here to share what I can on over 50 years experience to anyone that wants to listen and learn, I carry no secrecy bonds to or for any one. my boundaries in treasure hunting are not limited, in my life time I have been invited to assist on exactly 147 different treasure locations all over the world,some times more than once, some times more. don't take this out of text because I am not bragging, this was my life. and like I said, I have no bonds, if I was on site somewhere and you give me a map or anything at all , it was understood that since you give it to me, it was no longer private. I did not go to every treasure site I was invited to go to, a lot of factors would not be right, or feel good,sometimes you just cant hunt for something that you know isn't there,and telling a person that, is very hard because of their beliefs, you can expect to never find any thing if your not in the right spirit , your spirit has every thing in the world to do with your out come. always treat people right. np

 

[UncleMatt]

I have made kanabite's point earlier, when I suggested we need to have older members adopt apprentices, and more work needs to be done out in the field. We would all love to sit around our screens having people post all the goodies, but at some point you run out of goodies to post, assuming you are even willing to post your goodies in the first place. Like others I am more interested in knowing the truth of things than I think I will ever find hidden treasure. But to someone whose only focus is to find cached gold, they do not share that perspective.

Recently a member sent me a PM saying he had found a landmark he knew I had been searching for, but that it appeared the treasure had already been removed (name and specifics withheld out of respect). He thought perhaps I was the one who had removed the treasure he thought was there. I asked him if he would mind sharing the location of the landmark since nothing was left, but never heard another word about it. So did he really find something, or was he just fishing to see if I had found it? Who knows! I've also worked with people who placed huge significance on things they thought were related to our mutual treasure search, but when I went to prove it one way or the other definitively, they reacted very badly. Some people don't want their opinions or theories challenged, because then things they have spent years working on might be proved irrelevant, and they cannot accept that. So it gets a little frustrating at times when you have all these different mindsets and agendas working against simply finding out the truth of things.

 

[sdcfia]

I have made kanabite's point earlier, when I suggested we need to have older members adopt apprentices, and more work needs to be done out in the field. We would all love to sit around our screens having people post all the goodies, but at some point you run out of goodies to post, assuming you are even willing to post your goodies in the first place. Like others I am more interested in knowing the truth of things than I think I will ever find hidden treasure. But to someone whose only focus is to find cached gold, they do not share that perspective.

Recently a member sent me a PM saying he had found a landmark he knew I had been searching for, but that it appeared the treasure had already been removed (name and specifics withheld out of respect). He thought perhaps I was the one who had removed the treasure he thought was there. I asked him if he would mind sharing the location of the landmark since nothing was left, but never heard another word about it. So did he really find something, or was he just fishing to see if I had found it? Who knows! I've also worked with people who placed huge significance on things they thought were related to our mutual treasure search, but when I went to prove it one way or the other definitively, they reacted very badly. Some people don't want their opinions or theories challenged, because then things they have spent years working on might be proved irrelevant, and they cannot accept that. So it gets a little frustrating at times when you have all these different mindsets and agendas working against simply finding out the truth of things.

Most people who post on forums such as this are fishing. They are seeking two things for the most part. If they are actively trying to figure out a specific puzzle, they like to move the conversation along hoping that someone may post a tidbit they are seeking or some other new piece that they are unaware of. Like your landmark, for instance. Obviously, the information available to all of us is not sufficient to solve the mysteries, but who knows when something surfaces that will move your project forward. Don't set your hopes too high.

The second reason for following the forums is to try to find a kindred soul that you may be able to form an offline (real) relationship with. Again, don't assume you know someone by what they project online.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI gang, coffee?? Judy will serve as usual. I agree, for example I had never imagined a map that duplicated my conclusions that NP posted for me. It filled a glaring empty space. I am not interested in the gold as such, but the historical aspects which tend to reenforce the existence of Tayopa -even though I already own it.

Still it is nice to have confirming evidence that my OUIJI board wasn't lying to me.

The accompaning picture is for Judy's enjoyment. Nope, you have to ask her. Grinning Monkey Orchids.