Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

"2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America."

I didn't say the Government of the United State of America, as institution, between 1600 to 1800 committed bla, bla, bla,!!!

Arch

Actually that's exactly what you said as posted above.


And when all else fails resort to personal attacks...

 

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[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

"2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America."

I didn't say the Government of the United State of America, as institution, between 1600 to 1800 committed bla, bla, bla,!!!

Arch

Actually that's exactly what you said as posted above.


And when all else fails resort to personal attacks...

Ok AU. Comeback to your barrack. You'd had a hard day today, shooting with water pistols in the boot camp.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Just because you change your flag and become a new Nation, Doesn't mean your ancestors didn't do wrong.
I'm impressed with your Patriotism.
Ossy

Well I would say that we didn't "change" our flag we created a new one to go along with the new nation and new ideals. So you know my family genealogy? You know what my ancestors did?

If you want to be that general then we are all guilty for the atrocities of man from the beginning of time.

Are you a “treasure hunter”, armchair adventurer?
Why do you come to these forums?
Do you realize the detrimental affect this (Spain winning) will have on “treasure hunters” world wide?

It's going to be worse than the Abandoned Shipwreck Act.

Written laws are being obscured to fulfill the greater good of a Power Entity.
For someone who seems to dislike BIG corporate greed I do not understand why you side with BIG government greed other than national pride.

If the ruling goes in favor of Spain I will be at a loss for my “vocation” and those like me.
I will be at a loss for the disappointment of my Country for their clear obfuscation of written law to fulfill an agenda and not to uphold the letter of the law and justice.

We are all as bad as each other.
I don't know what the ruling will cause, but it can damage both Treasure Hunters and the Protection of Cultural Heritage.
Leaving it to rot in the ocean is wrong, If we could only come up with a compromise.
Yes National pride does get in way. No Disrespect meant.
Ossy

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

AU

I have 4 brothers that they served in the United State Armed forces and I never use that fact to "feed" my patriotism.

Arch

Honestly what does that have to do with anything? Your brothers served, not you, tell them thanks.

Ossy made some sort of implication that I need to take note of something because another poster has “put his life up for your Country”

So I was trying to see if Ossy believes my opinion is valid because I also served in my countries military. My family has a long rich history of decorated military service, that doesn't make my opinions any more valid than someone who has never served.

Oh and my patriotism fed my reasons for serving in my country’s military not the other way around… and you’re welcome.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

stuff belongs to those #1 smart enought to find it in the first place ,but only if they are strong enough to "defend it" from others --otherwise it "belongs" to those that are immoral enough to use the force of war upon those weaker folks who have what they want--basically the folks amoung the "stronger" folks who are crafty enought to steal it away and take it to their "own" place and so they then can "claim" it was thier legal right to do so all along by right of conquest , so that way even if it was "lost" in transit from point A (place of theft) to point B (theifs home base) that way they can claim that no one else has the right to step in and "steal it away" from them as they did long ago to others and get away with it .

basically put things know not their owners --so things by their very nature "belong to" those who "have" them in hand or under their control , by and large. -- might makes right as the govts say. --the strong take what they like from the weak , the smart take from the strong , and those that are strong and smart and ruthless enough are called "kings" and take from all as they wish.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

"2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America."

I didn't say the Government of the United State of America, as institution, between 1600 to 1800 committed bla, bla, bla,!!!

Arch

Actually that's exactly what you said as posted above.


And when all else fails resort to personal attacks...

Ok AU. Comeback to your barrack. You'd had a hard day today, shooting with water pistols in the boot camp.

That's really funny, I was in Basic 27 years ago... CHEERS!

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I brought this subject up on another thread not long ago...it caused chaos there too!

I'll stay out of this one. Carry on.

Dano

You're right. The story is repeated again. AU has a chaos with his confusing thought.

Arch

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

If we could only come up with a compromise.

Ossy

So throw some ice on this, many times writing on the internet can not be truly understood as if it were a verbal conversation.

So I'm just curious... Do you not believe that OM attempted that?

Here's something that I thought when reading through the piles of court docs and other info.

Why is this so much more different than the HMS Sussex?

If not familiar with it... http://www.shipwreck.net/hmssussex.php

I would tend to believe and maybe it's just the "treasure hunter" in me that the HMS Sussex would be the world's role model and prime example of cooperation between a country and private sector salvage that is mutually beneficial to all parties.


Now unless OM is outright lieing they claim that the same was afforded to Spain...

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Ossy

I have a questing for you. Please respond with a yes or no

Do you think that I'm trying to accuse to the United State of America, as institution, as established government, that they committed atrocities against other group during 1600 to 1800?. Do you think that is my meanings?

No

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

AU

I have 4 brothers that they served in the United State Armed forces and I never use that fact to "feed" my patriotism.

Arch

Honestly what does that have to do with anything? Your brothers served, not you, tell them thanks.

Ossy made some sort of implication that I need to take note of something because another poster has “put his life up for your Country”

So I was trying to see if Ossy believes my opinion is valid because I also served in my countries military. My family has a long rich history of decorated military service, that doesn't make my opinions any more valid than someone who has never served.

Oh and my patriotism fed my reasons for serving in my country’s military not the other way around… and you’re welcome.

I did already but nothing to do with this topic. Leave you patriotism out there and keep in subject. Nothing personal or against any Nation, country or ethnic group.

The Topic is If Odyssey return the 500M to España. That it s. DO YOU HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWER?

Arch

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

The Topic is If Odyssey return the 500M to España. That it s. DO YOU HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWER?

Arch

Well then I will defer to my fellow Tnet’er

The coins can't be 'returned' as they've never been to Spain in the first place.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

If we could only come up with a compromise.

Ossy

So throw some ice on this, many times writing on the internet can not be truly understood as if it were a verbal conversation.

So I'm just curious... Do you not believe that OM attempted that?

Here's something that I thought when reading through the piles of court docs and other info.

Why is this so much more different than the HMS Sussex?

If not familiar with it... http://www.shipwreck.net/hmssussex.php

I would tend to believe and maybe it's just the "treasure hunter" in me that the HMS Sussex would be the world's role model and prime example of cooperation between a country and private sector salvage that is mutually beneficial to all parties.


Now unless OM is outright lieing they claim that the same was afforded to Spain...

Being a Sovereign War ship of major historical Importance to Spain, They Said NO ! Which goes back to my other point of it being illegal
Why did Odyssey take all the coins and run !! If they felt it was legal what they did. Would they not have had protection?

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

The Topic is If Odyssey return the 500M to España. That it s. DO YOU HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWER?

Arch

Well then I will defer to my fellow Tnet’er

The coins can't be 'returned' as they've never been to Spain in the first place.

That is not a fact little soldier. It's only an opinion, because the coins always belong to Spain.They were produced by Spaniard. No matter if they were lost before to get theirs destiny, they always belong to the Spain crown.

Arch

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

If we could only come up with a compromise.

Ossy

So throw some ice on this, many times writing on the internet can not be truly understood as if it were a verbal conversation.

So I'm just curious... Do you not believe that OM attempted that?

Here's something that I thought when reading through the piles of court docs and other info.

Why is this so much more different than the HMS Sussex?

If not familiar with it... http://www.shipwreck.net/hmssussex.php

I would tend to believe and maybe it's just the "treasure hunter" in me that the HMS Sussex would be the world's role model and prime example of cooperation between a country and private sector salvage that is mutually beneficial to all parties.


Now unless OM is outright lieing they claim that the same was afforded to Spain...

Being a Sovereign War ship of major historical Importance to Spain, They Said NO ! Which goes back to my other point of it being illegal
Why did Odyssey take all the coins and run !! If they felt it was legal what they did. Would they not have had protection?

Because they look like who steel a bicycle from the Metro Station. He or she runs with the bicycle because they know they're wrong, illegal or whatever you call it. The Odyssey's advocate defend with theirs live the Odyssey's trial for many reasons:

1. Some of them has prior investment with Odyssey company.
2. Many of them confuse "patriotism" with the fact Odyssey wins the trial and owns the coins. I bet if Spain were England, Odyssey had return those coins.
3. And the most ridiculous reason, many of them think they control the words.

Odyssey never ever allowed to get aboard Spain's personnel to observe the Odyssey's works, Why?? They had everything planned.

Arch

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

yes spain made the coins -- but where did spain get the silver from that they used to make the coins from and "who" ? did the actual "making" of them ? -- slave laborers --both folks brought from africa and local indains who owned the land ( and thus the contents of the ground --the silver) before the spanish came over and enslaved them * and made them dig their silver out of the gound and turn it over to the spanish for others to turn into coins -- the coins were "bound for" or on their way to spain --they never got there --they were lost in transit * from the place of "forced" giving to the spanish "homeland"

if thats ok --then the nazi's who by military force "took control" of most of europe during WW2 were justified by right of "military conquest" in looting all the valuible items and using the locals as slave labor ---since these valuible items and slave laborers were in the countries they controlled by force of arms * exactly the same way the "spanish" claim to have the "right" to own the things they "took' -- the only differance is the time era it was done in ---no one today would dare to even try to suggest that what the nazi's did was morally right and that "lost nazi loot from WW2 " if found should be given to heirs of the nazi's of today . --since it was merely "lost in transit" .

if anyone other than the salvors has a real right to claim ownership of the silver coins --its the decendants of the indains of the area where the silver came from that were placed into slavery and forced to mine the silver from their local lands *( many of which died doing this hard labor )----not the spanish "enslavers" who exploited them --

oh and the USA exploited the local native americans as well * its a blot on our history as was slavery * for which we paid with in blood (indain wars / civil war)

wrong is wrong --no matter who is doing it or profeiting by it.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

If we could only come up with a compromise.

Ossy

So throw some ice on this, many times writing on the internet can not be truly understood as if it were a verbal conversation.

So I'm just curious... Do you not believe that OM attempted that?

Here's something that I thought when reading through the piles of court docs and other info.

Why is this so much more different than the HMS Sussex?

If not familiar with it... http://www.shipwreck.net/hmssussex.php

I would tend to believe and maybe it's just the "treasure hunter" in me that the HMS Sussex would be the world's role model and prime example of cooperation between a country and private sector salvage that is mutually beneficial to all parties.


Now unless OM is outright lieing they claim that the same was afforded to Spain...

Being a Sovereign War ship of major historical Importance to Spain, They Said NO ! Which goes back to my other point of it being illegal
Why did Odyssey take all the coins and run !! If they felt it was legal what they did. Would they not have had protection?

Because they look like who steel a bicycle from the Metro Station. He or she runs with the bicycle because they know they're wrong, illegal or whatever you call it. The Odyssey's advocate defend with theirs live the Odyssey's trial for many reasons:

1. Some of them has prior investment with Odyssey company.
2. Many of them confuse "patriotism" with the fact Odyssey wins the trial and owns the coins. I bet if Spain were England, Odyssey had return those coins.
3. And the most ridiculous reason, many of them think they control the words.

Odyssey never ever allowed to get aboard Spain's personnel to observe the Odyssey's works, Why?? They had everything planned.

Arch

Have you even read court docs?
your assumptions in 1,2,3 well you know what they say about assuming...

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

If we could only come up with a compromise.

Ossy

So throw some ice on this, many times writing on the internet can not be truly understood as if it were a verbal conversation.

So I'm just curious... Do you not believe that OM attempted that?

Here's something that I thought when reading through the piles of court docs and other info.

Why is this so much more different than the HMS Sussex?

If not familiar with it... http://www.shipwreck.net/hmssussex.php

I would tend to believe and maybe it's just the "treasure hunter" in me that the HMS Sussex would be the world's role model and prime example of cooperation between a country and private sector salvage that is mutually beneficial to all parties.


Now unless OM is outright lieing they claim that the same was afforded to Spain...

Being a Sovereign War ship of major historical Importance to Spain, They Said NO ! Which goes back to my other point of it being illegal
Why did Odyssey take all the coins and run !! If they felt it was legal what they did. Would they not have had protection?

Because they look like who steel a bicycle from the Metro Station. He or she runs with the bicycle because they know they're wrong, illegal or whatever you call it. The Odyssey's advocate defend with theirs live the Odyssey's trial for many reasons:

1. Some of them has prior investment with Odyssey company.
2. Many of them confuse "patriotism" with the fact Odyssey wins the trial and owns the coins. I bet if Spain were England, Odyssey had return those coins.
3. And the most ridiculous reason, many of them think they control the words.

Odyssey never ever allowed to get aboard Spain's personnel to observe the Odyssey's works, Why?? They had everything planned.

Arch

Have you even read court docs?
your assumptions in 1,2,3 well you know what they say about assuming...

Completely non sense what are saying. Give up!! Everything you had said is 100% non sense in this forum. Misinterpreting and accusing that I said United State committed atrocities when I explained very well my meanings over my statement, but it's ok, people like you makes than other people from other country hates this country. How many time you and other guys accused to Spain had committed genocide against other people during the colony period? You said "Spain" in general terms, however, when somebody say "United State did the same", Oh! it's infamy...... Come on, give me a break!!

Please don't talk about "read court doc." because you don't even know to read.

Arch

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

If we could only come up with a compromise.

Ossy

So throw some ice on this, many times writing on the internet can not be truly understood as if it were a verbal conversation.

So I'm just curious... Do you not believe that OM attempted that?

Here's something that I thought when reading through the piles of court docs and other info.

Why is this so much more different than the HMS Sussex?

If not familiar with it... http://www.shipwreck.net/hmssussex.php

I would tend to believe and maybe it's just the "treasure hunter" in me that the HMS Sussex would be the world's role model and prime example of cooperation between a country and private sector salvage that is mutually beneficial to all parties.


Now unless OM is outright lieing they claim that the same was afforded to Spain...

Being a Sovereign War ship of major historical Importance to Spain, They Said NO ! Which goes back to my other point of it being illegal
Why did Odyssey take all the coins and run !! If they felt it was legal what they did. Would they not have had protection?

Because they look like who steel a bicycle from the Metro Station. He or she runs with the bicycle because they know they're wrong, illegal or whatever you call it. The Odyssey's advocate defend with theirs live the Odyssey's trial for many reasons:

1. Some of them has prior investment with Odyssey company.
2. Many of them confuse "patriotism" with the fact Odyssey wins the trial and owns the coins. I bet if Spain were England, Odyssey had return those coins.
3. And the most ridiculous reason, many of them think they control the words.

Odyssey never ever allowed to get aboard Spain's personnel to observe the Odyssey's works, Why?? They had everything planned.

Arch

Have you even read court docs?
your assumptions in 1,2,3 well you know what they say about assuming...

Completely non sense what are saying. Give up!! Everything you had said is 100% non sense in this forum. Misinterpreting and accusing that I said United State committed atrocities when I explained very well my meanings over my statement, but it's ok, people like you makes than other people from other country hates this country. How many time you and other guys accused to Spain had committed genocide against other people during the colony period? You said "Spain" in general terms, however, when somebody say "United State did the same", Oh! it's infamy...... Come on, give me a break!!

Please don't talk about "read court doc." because you don't even know to read.

Arch

Don't let it get to you Arch, Insulting is the wrong way. Your Better than that.
Ossy

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I say hell yes -- the USA did bad things as well in their past --both with the unfair and immoral deals with native americans and with slavery --sin / blots on our nations history -- partly piad for in blood and treasure somewhat -- both of the USA and Spain have done wrong !!! the point is that wrong was done , folks were enslaved and abused (there is no "clean end" to pick that turd up by)-- the fact that "we were stronger" tech wize and military wize than the "exploited" folks at the time --does not whitewash it or make it morally or ethically "right" to do so -- the gee everyone was doing it at that time is a LAME excuse for trying to justify doing morally wrong actions , via the old " military might makes it all right" to do as you please to others and claim whats theirs and enslavement of others via the military "conquest" of them .

wrong is wrong no matter who done it or when or who profeits by it.

 

[architecad]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

You Ossy and SWR seem to think that for some reason if you can deflect from the actual parties involved that it makes a boogeyman out of “Americans” and that Spain is innocent in their actions of this case and history.

No, SWR doesn't "seem to think that for some reason.....etc, etc"

You "seem to think" that you can fabricate/concoct what others are thinking... this is simply ridiculous. If you don't know how to use the QUOTE feature, there are those on this board that will instruct you how to do so. If you don't understand somebodies post, or position...it is best NOT to try and speak for them.

SWR

You are very busy, are you? Jumping from LRL forum to here, to there. I see you in every forum where there are people fighting and arguing. That's good!! Sometime I will see you in Florida to get together and go metal detecting in shallow water. I invite.

Arch