defund obamacare, sign the petition.

[Treasure_Hunter]

Just out of curiosity...who do you suggest pays for the uninsured patients who rack up tens of thousdands of dollars in hospital bills? What about all the doctors who get burned out for seeing these patients for free?

Please do not respond by calling me illusionary, naive, head in the sand, or anything else. Also notice that I did not comment on the quality of Obamacare and if it should or should not move forward. I'm just curious if you have a better idea.

Crispin
Ps. I would prefer not to hear doing nothing different is better then this. I'm just trying to see if you can generate any new ideas.

Go back to drawing board, you don't launch a ship you know is going to sink and take a lot of lives with it...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

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[pong12211]

Crispin I agree with you that is it unfair for the doctors to get stuck with these bills by the uninsured.. As for an idea what if the govt used military doctors to see these patients.. I know that's asking alot of them but they are employed by the govt. and should be used at the govt. convienence.. Not saying this is a perfect solution but its and idea I suppose..

 

[bevo]

sign the dern petition.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

GAO Audit: USDA Paid Millions To Thousands Of Dead Farmers

 

[Crispin]

Crispin I agree with you that is it unfair for the doctors to get stuck with these bills by the uninsured.. As for an idea what if the govt used military doctors to see these patients.. I know that's asking alot of them but they are employed by the govt. and should be used at the govt. convienence.. Not saying this is a perfect solution but its and idea I suppose..

That is an idea. Have a hospital for people who don't have insurance and the government pays the doctors. It would still be socialized medicine and paid for by our taxes. The difference is that we would still have private sector for the insured. The end result would be poorer care for people without insurance. The better doctors would go into private practice.

My solution: Government reimbursement to hospitals and doctors who are shouldering the burden of the uninsured.
However, that would still create problems with people getting something for free. If one gets free healthcare and a monthly check from the government they have no incentive to work.

The current problem with out medical system is that everyone wants the BEST care regardless of how much they pay for it or if they pay for it at all. Obviously, everybody cannot have the best because it is too expensive. So either some people get better or everybody gets worse. Socialized medicine essentially takes down the level of care for people who can pay for it and raises up the level of care for people who cannot. We want the brightest people in society going into medicine. Socialized medicine lowers physician payment. The average debt out of med school is over 150000. Even the most noble of people would not sign up for the type of beating one takes in med school and residency and put themselves into debt if there was no financial incentive. Not to mention the day to day stress of having people's lives in one's hands.

The real answer to healthcare reform is medical malpractice reform. Doctors order so many tests that are unnecessary because of fear of litigation. this drives up the cost of care. Medical malpractice premiums are very expensive. Most medical malpractice suits are frivolous but insurance companies settle because it is less expensive then going to court and they do not want to play the odds with a jury. However, lawyers make the laws in this country and why would they put themselves out of a job? The answer is to have medical panels to summarily assess malpractice. Of course, the only people qualified to sit on the panel would be doctors; hence, nobody would trust it because they would say doctors are protecting each other. Kind of like lawyers in the government protect each other...but that is okay.

I'm done ranting for now. Willing to continue if anybody posts intelligent replies.

Thanks for answering the question pong,
Crispin

 

[pong12211]

I agree with you crispin there is no easy answer.. I also believe that anybody that has the smarts and ability to go to medical school should be rewarded for their sacrifice to become educated.. Govt. hspitols may not be the perfect answer but its at least an idea.. The problem I see with all of this is medicine is lets face it probably the second biggest buisness in the US. next to religion.. The only problem with it is doctors at least most I should hope take an oath to provide healthcare to people in need no matter what.. Unfoufrtunatley not everybody can afford to pay for that service.. This cause a huge problem for alot of people.. The only shame of it is that there is no easy solution.. Do I think Obama care is the soulution no but there does'nt seem to be a better on out there right now..

 

[DeepseekerADS]

Bevo, I signed it. And I don't sign many at all - I think this is the second on-line one.

I also agree with Crispin, he lives it every day.

 

[worldtalker]

That is an idea. Have a hospital for people who don't have insurance and the government pays the doctors. It would still be socialized medicine and paid for by our taxes. The difference is that we would still have private sector for the insured. The end result would be poorer care for people without insurance. The better doctors would go into private practice.

My solution: Government reimbursement to hospitals and doctors who are shouldering the burden of the uninsured.
However, that would still create problems with people getting something for free. If one gets free healthcare and a monthly check from the government they have no incentive to work.

The current problem with out medical system is that everyone wants the BEST care regardless of how much they pay for it or if they pay for it at all. Obviously, everybody cannot have the best because it is too expensive. So either some people get better or everybody gets worse. Socialized medicine essentially takes down the level of care for people who can pay for it and raises up the level of care for people who cannot. We want the brightest people in society going into medicine. Socialized medicine lowers physician payment. The average debt out of med school is over 150000. Even the most noble of people would not sign up for the type of beating one takes in med school and residency and put themselves into debt if there was no financial incentive. Not to mention the day to day stress of having people's lives in one's hands.

The real answer to healthcare reform is medical malpractice reform. Doctors order so many tests that are unnecessary because of fear of litigation. this drives up the cost of care. Medical malpractice premiums are very expensive. Most medical malpractice suits are frivolous but insurance companies settle because it is less expensive then going to court and they do not want to play the odds with a jury. However, lawyers make the laws in this country and why would they put themselves out of a job? The answer is to have medical panels to summarily assess malpractice. Of course, the only people qualified to sit on the panel would be doctors; hence, nobody would trust it because they would say doctors are protecting each other. Kind of like lawyers in the government protect each other...but that is okay.

I'm done ranting for now. Willing to continue if anybody posts intelligent replies.

Thanks for answering the question pong,
Crispin

I really respect you Crispin,you took this to heart. GodBless you my Friend.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Canada and England have socialized medicine, average wait time for surgery in Canada is over 4 months. England was over 100 days.

If I had to have eye surgery again under their plans I would only be bind for 3.5-4 months.

I got my surgery in less than a week here so excuse me if I don't sing the praises of socialized medicine.

I had a Canadian friend in Missouri, his father gave up waiting for his surgery in Canada and had it done in the states... He told me all about their socialized medicine... He hated it, he only liked the cost of prescriptions. He loved our health care here, he is American citizen now ....

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

calling health care names does not help...
80% of adults in the US are in the poverty zone...that is the damnation of industrialized society...and capitalism...
it is in the interests of capitial to keep a healthy workforce...enlightened capitialism...Enlightened Capitalism

in a society of haves an have-nots...unless the haves wish to do the labor themselves. then someone has to put things in an order to create healthy and happy workers.
it is not socialism, for capitalists to provide for the health of the workforce.
just more political propaganda to confuse the issues that cause poverty in the wealthiest nation on earth...

 

[worldtalker]

calling health care names does not help...
80% of adults in the US are in the poverty zone...that is the damnation of industrialized society...and capitalism...
it is in the interests of capitial to keep a healthy workforce...enlightened capitialism...Enlightened Capitalism

in a society of haves an have-nots...unless the haves wish to do the labor themselves. then someone has to put things in an order to create healthy and happy workers.
it is not socialism, for capitalists to provide for the health of the workforce.
just more political propaganda to confuse the issues that cause poverty in the wealthiest nation on earth...

I haven't quite put my finger on where you're coming from.

 

[bzbadger]

A few facts coming from an insurance agent...there are federally funded and state funded medical insurances other than Medicaid or Medicare. These programs you pay for and are based off of your household income, how many ppl in household, your bills etc. Its rather easy to fill out and takes an average turn around time of 45 days and its great insurance, you can have preexisting health issues, deductible is low but ppl just think there are only the Medicare programs or buying individually owned or employee based...wrong. A lot of these programs run through blue cross/blue shield, Aetna etc.

Ppl with no insurance still get care at hospitals, but understand something when it comes to Medicaid programs its the children and the mothers who get this majority of the time unless the male has a disability. Out of the 48% of America's population that lives at poverty level 44% receive assisted living. Most of these ppl don't want or care to work due to an entitlement attitude which die to environment promotes the same on the children of the ppl riding for free. This amount of ppl serve as an anchor and keep is from being able to move forward. Lawyers who sue doctors for inane things do the same. FYI doctor malpractice insurance is an average $20k a year..anyone here pay that kind of insurance just so you don't get sued, this is over and above liability etc insurance.

People we don't need a new wheel just fix the one we have. Stop the erroneous/fraudulent claims by doctors, stop the sue happy lawyers and the greedy patients trying to become millionaires, stop a government who lies about how much this Obama are will cost...nancy Pelosi stated that the new plan will only cost $90 billion over the next ten years..this plan includes Medicare and Medicaid recipients which cost us half a billion a year now and were going to on life 100% of America for just a few million more per year? I want one of those Democrat calculators.

Get your facts first, then distort them as you please-Mark Twain

 

[bzbadger]

Sorry about the misspelling in my previous post, im using tapatalk and it won't let you see most of what's written and the autocorrect is becoming a major pain in my ass since I am known for being a stickler for grammar.

Get your facts first, then distort them as you please-Mark Twain

 

[tannerhatley]

Use of grammar and misspelling shouldn't take away from the importance of your point or idea.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

calling health care names does not help...
80% of adults in the US are in the poverty zone...that is the damnation of industrialized society...and capitalism...
it is in the interests of capitial to keep a healthy workforce...enlightened capitialism...Enlightened Capitalism

in a society of haves an have-nots...unless the haves wish to do the labor themselves. then someone has to put things in an order to create healthy and happy workers.
it is not socialism, for capitalists to provide for the health of the workforce.
just more political propaganda to confuse the issues that cause poverty in the wealthiest nation on earth...

According to the US Census................ Official poverty rate in 2008 was 13.2 %.... So what could possibly happen after that to cause it to soar?


The official poverty rate in 2008 was 13.2 percent, up from 12.5 percent in 2007. This was the first statistically significant annual increase in the poverty rate since 2004, when poverty increased to 12.7 percent from 12.5 percent in 2003.

In 2008, 39.8 million people were in poverty, up from 37.3 million in 2007 -- the second consecutive annual increase in the number of people in poverty.
Income, Poverty and Health Insurance in the United States: 2008 - Highlights - U.S Census Bureau

 

[Dave44]

calling health care names does not help...
80% of adults in the US are in the poverty zone...that is the damnation of industrialized society...and capitalism...
it is in the interests of capitial to keep a healthy workforce...enlightened capitialism...Enlightened Capitalism

in a society of haves an have-nots...unless the haves wish to do the labor themselves. then someone has to put things in an order to create healthy and happy workers.
it is not socialism, for capitalists to provide for the health of the workforce.
just more political propaganda to confuse the issues that cause poverty in the wealthiest nation on earth...

A. 80 % is a bogus # for starters
B. This extra weird notion of the haves caring for the have nots is exactly what I predicted would happen! The haves would be the ones that can pay for the politicians and the politicians themselves. The "workers" are the slaves that have to do the work. I mean, It is only fitting that the haves take care of their workforce, Right?

I worked cows until well after college, and I will tell you. I cared for them in the same exact way, because they do not have the intelligence to fend for themselves the way I need them to until I eat them.

Secret canyon, you need to really search your inner thoughts and be a little reflective. You are not allowing for the rights of men to seek their own way in life. Freedom is not always easy, and it is not always safe.

 

[onfire]

GAO Audit: USDA Paid Millions To Thousands Of Dead Farmers

Was that for their dead VOTE?

 

[Chadeaux]

Defund Obamacare ... and what do you accomplish? You hand over the 2014 elections to the Democrats. Why? Because in the eyes of the low information voters, all that is being done is OBSTRUCTION. You're trying to take something away from them that their savior has promised.

You want to kill it? You can't, because there are NO CONSERVATIVES WITH THE GONADS TO DO WHAT IS NEEDED. They are dragging you folks down the exact same sewer as the democrats ... and not one person is awake enough to see that you're being sold down the river.

No? Obamacare has never had a serious logical challenge by the republicans - because they are in on the whole mess.

How to defeat obamacare? If the republican leaders are not lying to us, here is the plan that will kill it.

1. Republicans need to say: "Okay folks, we are going to try this experiment but with the following terms: We will vote to override the executive orders for anyone receiving exemption from any of the bill. If the bill is so good, then no one should be exempt from the welfare mother to the president. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!"

2. Republicans need to do this: Make sure that obamacare goes into FULL EFFECT, but leave an opening for repeal if it is not successful within 36 months from the date the implementation began.

3. After 24 months of the idiots (low information voters) finding out that it is only insurance, NOT FREE HEALTHCARE, they will be ready to dump it. Put it up for a national referendum at 30 months.

4. At the end of 36 months, the program will be a bad bad bad memory.

Not one has the balls to do what it takes.

My dad used to be a carpenter. He always said you need to be smarter than the tools you use. There are no conservatives in congress - either house - who are smarter than the wood in their desks.

Sad, really sad!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

" the over 2,000 page original bill has now swollen to over 20,000 pages, if you count the countless new regulations (laws) that have been piled on by unelected bureaucrats."

"According to federal agency estimates, Obamacare will add paperwork burdens totaling nearly 190 million hours or more every year........................... to put that in perspective, Mount Rushmore, which took 14 years to build, could be constructed 1,547 times with the paperwork Obamacare requires in one year.*"

-Ted Cruz



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[mustangpalmer1911]

Crispin
Ps. I would prefer not to hear doing nothing different is better then this. I'm just trying to see if you can generate any new ideas.

Doing nothing would have been better. This was like if Montgomery would have just said start swimming take the beaches on D-Day....we will figure out the plan of attack later.