David and the Peralta stone maps.

[cactusjumper]

David,

"In the name of YAHWEH, I comand it."

Fascinating!

Nice little run here. It's over for me.

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[Oroblanco]

cactusjumper;

Listen....I have payed my dues in this life whether you think so or not, thank you very much....

Now if you or anyone else on here thinks that i need to go there and do some foot work and pay some dues? then you guys don't know what I have done for others and what my life has been like for me. I am sorry but I just can't do that anymore. Now I have given you much of what I found and have done so, with the hopes that someone will listen but it seems it falls on def ears or you want me to think it does.
I have asked for help before showing you my findings, I have heard most of you mock me and i still show you more...this is done with an open heart and kindness to people i have never seen or known. If you take this information and use it for your own gains and you leave me out of the loop. Then Hear my words....
( This knowledge that you all now have, has been given to you with honesty and kindness and with an open heart...It is the one last thing I want to do for people before I die and If you gain from this information and plan on using it for your own gains? then know this. Anyone that does use my information and gains from it but doesn't tell me or share their findings with me? Great harm will fall upon you and your family. Has it is written, so shall it be done. In the name of YAHWEH, i comand it.)
You are warned....

Hola amigos Quinan Bear and everyone,

I was tempted to just post, "HUH?" but perhaps there is good reasoning here. Did you not consider what the possible outcome may be, when you posted your info here, on a public forum? Surely you thought of the possibility, that some person(s) reading our discussion here, might just run up into the Superstitions and start digging up all the gold, church vestments etc which you have stated are buried/concealed there. I think we even covered this earlier, didn't we? I think I suggested to post only what you are comfortable making public knowledge, with the certainty that some not-so-honest types are definitely reading what is posted right?

Posting threats like you have in this post, are not generally a good idea.

I do wish that you could put yourself in "our" shoes, even for a moment, and try to see how this whole thing appears to us. I have tried to put myself in your shoes, to consider what I would do if I had figured out what you believe you have done - but I think I would collect it all into an article and sell it to Western & Eastern Treasures magazine. That way you would at least get something for your story and info, and would reach a large "audience" including many who do not have internet access etc. They don't pay a lot for articles of course but you could at least be able to put it all together, arrange it the way you want it, get it published, NOT have to deal with guys like me that are just too unreasonable as our amigo Santa Fe NM puts it, and get the recognition you clearly desire. Kind of a "one way" talk, instead of a discussion that can get 'ugly'. After your story is published, you could return here for an in-depth discussion too, if you should care to.

It is just a suggestion of course. I don't understand your negative reaction to those whom have a wealth of experience in exploring the Superstitions, 'boots on the ground' style; as a prospector you know the value of field exploration and no prospector would simply dismiss the results of field examination, panned samples, assays etc in favor of data obtained via satellite or aircraft. I know a bit about physical impairments too, as do several of our amigos here - you may not be able to scale a cliff-side, but perhaps you may even surprise yourself at what you can do? I still think you would not regret making a trip to the Superstitions in person, and 'hook up' with a partner to do some exploration.

Have you compared any of the other Treasure Maps with your satellite and geologic data? Like this one:
http://www.ajpl.org/aj/museum/treasm62.htm

...there are several others in their collection, which may be relevant for comparison with the Peralta stones and your data. Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

PS - Quinan Bear's discoveries, like those of Santa Fe NM, really belong in a different part of the Treasurenet forums. There is a section FOR such discoveries with Google Earth,

X Marks The Spot!
Potential treasure hunting hotspots and points of discovery! Share your Google Earth discoveries! Post your Google Earth (.kml) files here!
->-->---->http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,313.0.html<----<--<-

 

[Quinan Bear]

I know it is not wise to show too much on the net in a public forum. I said before that only the ones that will help me will know what I know, so you don't need to worry about that.
I also know that you and quite a few others in this forum, have searched the mountains for many years and have become good friends. You deserve your just reward, for your hard work, this I agree whole heartedly and it is for this very reason that I have come to offer you the solution you have searched for for so many years.

Does it realy matter that i have never been there? I have done my own research, put my time in and have found the way to the REAL Heart stone ( not the one you seen).
If your group of friends would agree to speak with me privately in order to come to an agreement that we have equal rights to this? Then I will privately send you the real deal. I know that the heart I showed you was nice and held the markers in the right places, but the real one does it even better.

So what do you guys and gals think? let's not worry about who done what kinda searching or anything like that. We should look at it as not having to search anymore and having your just reward. Is that so hard to understand? I am knocking on your door, with a great opertunity and you don't even want to open the door.


Such a shame

 

[Oroblanco]

I know it is not wise to show too much on the net in a public forum. I said before that only the ones that will help me will know what I know, so you don't need to worry about that.
I also know that you and quite a few others in this forum, have searched the mountains for many years and have become good friends. You deserve your just reward, for your hard work, this I agree whole heartedly and it is for this very reason that I have come to offer you the solution you have searched for for so many years.

Well I have to agree, that there are a few individuals whom have spent a LOT of time searching for the Lost Dutchman, and it would be nice to see them get some benefit from it being found.

Quinan Bear also wrote

Does it realy matter that i have never been there? I have done my own research, put my time in and have found the way to the REAL Heart stone ( not the one you seen).

It matters in several ways, one being that the terrain is much more difficult than the impression one gets from satellite or aerial photos; in fact it is rougher than you would think from studying topographic maps. Some have said it is some of the roughest terrain on the planet, and I have to agree. If you would personally go into the Superstitions, I think you might re-think just how simple it is to spot a lost mine. There is another point to this which I will get to in a moment.

Quinan Bear also wrote

If your group of friends would agree to speak with me privately in order to come to an agreement that we have equal rights to this? Then I will privately send you the real deal. I know that the heart I showed you was nice and held the markers in the right places, but the real one does it even better.

I am sure that anyone interested, will contact you privately.

Quinan Bear also wrote

So what do you guys and gals think? let's not worry about who done what kinda searching or anything like that. We should look at it as not having to search anymore and having your just reward. Is that so hard to understand? I am knocking on your door, with a great opertunity and you don't even want to open the door.


Such a shame

Hmm, well amigo I don't know what to think. You see, for all we know, you could be someone pulling a prank, wanting to send people out on a wild goose chase. To reinforce this possibility, you are not willing to travel to the Superstitions yourself, which kind of throws doubts onto your theory, for if it were true and good, why would you NOT be willing to travel there and go get that treasure? Do you see what I mean? It is not a "shame" at all, to be cautious about running off pell-mell into the Superstition mountains for every one who comes onto the internet with some wild ideas and satellite images telling us to go there. If your health were good and physical condition also good, would you pack up your gear and head for Alberta, if someone posted satellite photos and said "here is the lost Lemon mine"? Wouldn't you want to see a little gold first?

Good luck and good hunting amigo Quinan Bear and everyone, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Quinan Bear]

Oroblanco;

I get your point on all that you say. I can't go anywhere, I don't even go to the veins around here very often, 7 years since i was there last.
I have seen many photos of those mountains and i am well aware of what the terrain is like. I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe in what i found. I don't think that this particular trip would be regretable, I just don't know what else to say.
If I could show you the way that I followed the stones to lead me to where I found the heart and you were able to see all the mines by their tailings, would you believe me then? I am not asking you to go there to see, right away. I am asking you to join in my quest and take a good look at what i have before you even leave your seat. It's as easy has, saying yes and looking on your computer to verify.

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco;

I get your point on all that you say. I can't go anywhere, I don't even go to the veins around here very often, 7 years since i was there last.
I have seen many photos of those mountains and i am well aware of what the terrain is like. I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe in what i found. I don't think that this particular trip would be regretable, I just don't know what else to say.
If I could show you the way that I followed the stones to lead me to where I found the heart and you were able to see all the mines by their tailings, would you believe me then? I am not asking you to go there to see, right away. I am asking you to join in my quest and take a good look at what i have before you even leave your seat. It's as easy has, saying yes and looking on your computer to verify.

Hola amigo,
I can only speak for myself, but would bet that several of our amigos would be interested in hearing out how you followed where the stones led you to the heart. To me, the Peralta stones are very much like all the other treasure maps, they are oh-so-tantalizing, but boy can they ever 'suck you in' and get a guy to spend a lot of time, without finding diddly. What makes the Peralta stones any better than any other treasure map? Other than the fact that they almost always lead to arguments among Dutch-hunters? Treasure maps are not something I trust amigo, and that includes the Peralta stones and 61 of those at the Apache Jct public library collection; as far as I know virtually every one has been tried and tested by treasure hunters, and with zilch to show for it.

Of that impressive collection, it could be that every single one of them is absolutely genuine - but there has to be something radically wrong with every one of them! If there were NOT something wrong, there would not be a Lost Dutchman mine still waiting to be found. They could be simple errors or deliberate falsehoods, we can't say at this point - but if you try using some of the treasure maps to find a lost mine or treasure, you will soon decide they can be misleading!

Like most treasure hunters and prospectors, I am not a big "joiner" and have already committed to assist one of our amigos here on a different project <not in Arizona> so can't freely offer to partner up with you David, but probably others here are more than happy to partner-up. I can understand your frustration, but hope you can see why some of us continue to have doubts. It doesn't mean that you are wrong, and I wish you a lot of luck and hope you can prove your discoveries.

Good luck and good hunting David (and everyone) I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
Roy ~ Oroblanco

PS Just want to complain about danged treasure maps - they are like a red rag to a bull, for a treasure hunter; it is in our nature to WANT to believe in them, so we ought to try to keep a skeptical mind with EVERY treasure map, and that includes the Peralta Stones. Never put all of your trust in any treasure map amigos, unless you don't mind getting skunked.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI: forgive me for bringing up Tayopa so often, but it is one area where I know where I safely stand.

The below maps ARE both correct, but if you used them exclusively, you would never find Tayopa, as hundreds learned to their sorrow.

They both bear out Oro's statement.

'To my knowledge', the Map to Tayopa 'b' has never been published.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Quinan Bear]

Tayopa:

Thank you for showing me those maps. I find them very interesting.
Tayopa is not something I really knew of, just heard about it. Since you own the place, would it be possible to get a translated version of the second map? I would like to test the map myself to see what I come up with. Like i said about my findings,. maybe you need to look at it in a whole new way to figure it out. Perhaps it might shed some light on what people are missing.
You don't have to if you don't want to, i was just asking.

Again thanks for the post.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Translate in wording or ? Essentially it agrees with the Map a.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[BILL96]

QB,
I will try and explain the nagging problem that I have. Every treasure map has a good story, and usually based in some bit of fact, Tayopa is a great example a great legend of lost mines and untold wealth but it did have a long and old history going back several hundred years The stones have no history prior to about 1949, nothing!! they just appeared and then the stories were created to fit the stones its all backwards!. The whole idea of the indians using a hidden vault to hide all the gold from the white man is just extreme. I have spent a lot of years studying the Indian tribes and cultures of Arizona and I do not see that happening. I never believed the Aztecs brought a great treasure north from Mexico either, I just never thought it was logisticaly feesible to escape without the spanish noticing their departure and to travel that distance. While I do believe that some prospecting and mining went on in the supers it never produced a lot of gold compared to the bradshaws, La paz or other mining districts in Arizona, If I were looking for lost mines in Arizona I would spend a lot more time in the Bradshaws than in the Supers.
I would take your whole idea more seriously if you just had a believable story about the history of the stones. While the stones may be a real "something" until somebody finds that something they are still just a curisitoy.
Just my opinion
Bill

 

[Old Dog]

Oro Tag.

 

[cactusjumper]

Bill,

It took a long time, lots of money and a great deal of research, but I have reached the same conclusions as you.

My own research took me all the way back to Juan de Grijalva, and from that point through the history of Mexico and Arizona. While I could create one hell of a yarn from that history, it needs considerable imagination and conjecture to bring treasure into the Superstitions.

Two people who could be added into that conjecture, with great circumstantial evidence are, Pancho Villa and Ted deGrazia. The Pancho Villa story includes a fellow by the name of Emil L. Holmdahl.

I have been down so many side trail over the years, that my path would look like a maze, if you could fit it to paper.

Before "El Gato" (Jim) comes back and starts harping about how foolish I am, I have admitted to using "imagination and conjecture". Something he has never done.

To address another "point" he made, here is the heart that he said was: "Just a boulder that to some may think resembles a heart and to others it is just a boulder."

Perhaps it does not look like a heart to "El Gato" because it does not look like the heart he found. Can't imagine why "El Gato" only stuck around long enough to rag on my theories, and then faded into the woodwork.

Take care,

Joe

 

[BILL96]

The life of Emil Holmdahl could make a great movie, has enyone ever written a book about him?
Bill

 

[Quinan Bear]

Tayopa:
I would like to show you something about the stones that nobody has seen althought it is in plain sight but before I say any more, I have a question.
Is there any of you that are capable of seeing the stones in person?

 

[cactusjumper]

Bill,

I don't know about a movie, but I have had a fine, signed, first edition of "Soldier of Fortune: Adventuring in Latin America and Mexico with Emil Lewis Holmdahl" By Douglas V. Meed for a number of years. You are correct, in that it is a very interesting story.

Abe Books has a number of copies starting at $6.99. It's a good read.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning David: Not I, I am perhaps 600 miles south of the Superstitions.

The Holmdahl book is on line, free for downloading. I recommend it for any one with treasure hunting / adventurers blood. It is not a pretty or nice life that is being decribed, but it is a vital part of central American and Mexican reveloutions.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

"The Holmdahl book is on line, free for downloading."

On line!!! Are you some kind of barbarian?

Take care,

Joe

 

[BILL96]

Found it, excellent!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Psst Joe, never head of indirect payoffs? Barbarians only go for direct action.

Don Jose de La Mancha