Copper tool

[Mintberrycrunch]

Found on a river near known Indian mounds I was hoping copper culture probably wishful thinking any thoughts. Update after sending out a few emails to people dealing in bronze artifacts I may have a lead I'll post the email

 

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[Mintberrycrunch]

Pretty sure Crusader already answered and said it was a clock key or something along those lines.

No he said it's not a clock key he doesn't know what it is he has made a few posts on here and I sent him a pm early on.

 

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[Bruce R]

I think you can forget the idea of it being a tool, primitive tools were pretty much confined to cutting, cooking, sewing, and beating . Knowledge of primitive tools is well established, simply because there weren't that many. I seriously doubt there's going to be a discovery of a heretofore unknown tool. If the piece is as old as you think, then it must be an ornament. It's not a weapon, not useful for procuring food or cooking it, not useful for making clothes, not a potato digger. If you want to narrow things down, you can start by eliminating everything invented after the foundation for the first pyramid was laid. Failing that, call it a mistake someone made and threw away.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

I have no idea how old it is or what it was used for but every artifact dealer that has seen the images have told me its ancient. If you don't agree let us know why if it's just junk I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time

I think you can forget the idea of it being a tool, primitive tools were pretty much confined to cutting, cooking, sewing, and beating . Knowledge of primitive tools is well established, simply because there weren't that many. I seriously doubt there's going to be a discovery of a heretofore unknown tool. If the piece is as old as you think, then it must be an ornament. It's not a weapon, not useful for procuring food or cooking it, not useful for making clothes, not a potato digger. If you want to narrow things down, you can start by eliminating everything invented after the foundation for the first pyramid was laid. Failing that, call it a mistake someone made and threw away.

 

[SkaBa]

Hey Mint, no matter what it turns out to be, this is not junk. I've really enjoyed this thread and can't wait to find the ID.

 

[Bruce R]

I never inferred that it wasn't ancient, in my last sentence I more or less stated that it was OLDER than the pyramids. What I'm saying is that it is not a tool. Ancient tools are pretty well documented simply because there weren't that many different ones. There were certainly different styles of the same tools from culture to culture. The activities of ancient man can be counted on your fingers. 1-securing food, 2- securing shelter, 3- procreation, 4- self defense, 5 - worship (?) How does your piece fit with any of these ? Personally, I still believe it's an amulet for protection against the unknown.

 

[relic lover]

Definitely not junk just a mystery is all.

 

[burglarifyoulike]

That is definitely unique and interesting! I hope someone gives u the answer!

 

[huntsman53]

Mintberrycrunch,

The piece is definitely not junk and I don't believe for one second that it was made by Mother Nature but stranger things have happened. Also, I don't think you have wasted anyone's time and especially for myself and quite a few others. It is my belief that the piece may have had a disk or possibly a gem mounted in the open half moon and with it, the mystery of what the object is, would likely be solved. If I had found a Bronze piece like that in a river, I would scour as much of the river upstream and downstream as possible and especially within several hundred yards or more of where the piece was found.


Frank

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

I've been back but it's no mans land too thick to detect too wet to sift. And what should I be looking for a stone/gem that might have gone in the open end? Sorry I over reacted to your comment I really do appreciate any input HH

Mintberrycrunch,

The piece is definitely not junk and I don't believe for one second that it was made by Mother Nature but stranger things have happened. Also, I don't think you have wasted anyone's time and especially for myself and quite a few others. It is my belief that the piece may have had a disk or possibly a gem mounted in the open half moon and with it, the mystery of what the object is, would likely be solved. If I had found a Bronze piece like that in a river, I would scour as much of the river upstream and downstream as possible and especially within several hundred yards or more of where the piece was found.


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

I've been back but it's no mans land too thick to detect too wet to sift. And what should I be looking for a stone/gem that might have gone in the open end? Sorry I over reacted to your comment I really do appreciate any input HH

It is hard to say what, if anything actually was mounted in the open-ended half moon! Possibly a Bronze Disk, a Gem or yes, it could have been a stone. Of course, it may not have had anything at all there and is what it is as made. Even if you never find something that may have been mounted in the piece, the possibility exists that there are more Bronze objects out there made by the same people because you found one and they likely made more.


Frank

 

[Bruce R]

The thing really resembles the great serpent mound in Ohio, I'd suggest you read up on it and the culture that built it. I'm sure your artifact has something to do with it, but you may never find an image of another just like it. There may, however, be other known artifacts of the same design such as pottery.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

The thing really resembles the great serpent mound in Ohio, I'd suggest you read up on it and the culture that built it. I'm sure your artifact has something to do with it, but you may never find an image of another just like it. There may, however, be other known artifacts of the same design such as pottery.

I've done and good bit of reading on the mound builders and I agree it has a lot of simalaritys. But from what I read there was not much advance forms of metallurgy being used because like others have stated that would require less time hunting gathering. I read something about how North Americas game could travel great distances from east to west and stay in the right type of enviorment suitable to find food. Meaning most Native American were semi nomadic leaving little time to develop other skills such as metal working and IMO this doesn't look like a crude cold hammered peace of native copper. I now think it's bronze not saying its of an unknown culture or anything crazy maybe it was traded to the hopewell ppl and lost or more recently brought from over seas and lost. Is there an evidence of Native American bronze artifacts? I haven't found any information to back that up

 

[Bruce R]

You make some good points Mint, however, the people who built those mounds seemed to have a lot of spare time on their hands, don't you think? These things are enormous when you consider they were built by hand. Also, the sites are so old how do you determine the people are native as opposed to " newly arrived ". Here's another thought, you can always email photos to the anthropology dept. at the Smithsonian. I send photos to the State Museum here in Pa. and they're very helpful.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

You make some good points Mint, however, the people who built those mounds seemed to have a lot of spare time on their hands, don't you think? These things are enormous when you consider they were built by hand. Also, the sites are so old how do you determine the people are native as opposed to " newly arrived ". Here's another thought, you can always email photos to the anthropology dept. at the Smithsonian. I send photos to the State Museum here in Pa. and they're very helpful.

Ive sent tons of emails to tons museums with no luck if you know a place that would take a look let me know thanks

 

[lockster99]

No guess as to what....but what if the end was made to slip over something.

 

[tamrock]

I'd try contacting a place like the Illinois Institute of Technology a place that knows and understands metallurgy. Maybe they could uncover something about the age, source and alloy makeup of it? I'd like to know if it has the same makeup in copper alloy as many other ancient copper artifacts found in the region? https://engineering.iit.edu/mmae/research/faculty-research/materials-science-engineering

 

[Bruce R]

Here,: janjohnson@pa.gov. Janet is an archeologist with the Pa. State museum and has been very helpful to me in the past.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

Here,: janjohnson@pa.gov. Janet is an archeologist with the Pa. State museum and has been very helpful to me in the past.

K email sent let's see if I get a reply

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

She hit me back said she was happy to help but requested some information on how I found it. My first email I didn't include any details so I just sent her all the information about how I found it. Let's she what she thinks

 

[Bruce R]

Yeah, Janet's cool, she realizes the value of us amateurs.