CODEBREAKER COMMENTS ABOUT BEALE CIPHERS

[ECS]

... The Beale is fiction...but, no hoax.

With that I agree. It was written as an adventure/ treasure dime novel in the style of that period in time, with play along ciphers added as a parlor entertainment, and sold for 50 cents, which was a hefty price in 1885.
The "hoax" connotation came about after the many books and magazine articles written after the publication of the Hart Papers and GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE when researchers could not find any events confirming the narrative story in the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by James Beverly Ward.

 

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[ECS]

Going by the standard the Beale story is held to, we have to say there is no good reason to believe that many, if any, in Richmond would have known of something advertised in the Lynchburg newspaper. Business interest is one thing, but exchanging newspaper ads, which was evidently viewed as bunk anyway, is another.

After the fall of Richmond in April 1865, Lynchburg, for a short time became the capitol of the Confederacy.
Many events occurred in Lynchburg during "the 2nd year of the Confederate War".
That phrase appeared in the Beale Papers for a reason, and those who I have presented as being involved with the Beale Papers, were also involved in various, but different aspects, during "the 2nd year of the Confederate War"- and , yes, some had business in Richmond.

 

[Old Silver]

Having business in Richmond is not the same as having a newspaper article in Richmond. Was the Beale article in the Richmond newspaper? And what does it have to do with Lynchburg being the capitol for a short time?

 

[tad10]

With that I agree. It was written as an adventure/ treasure dime novel in the style of that period in time, with play along ciphers added as a parlor entertainment, and sold for 50 cents, which was a hefty price in 1885.
The "hoax" connotation came about after the many books and magazine articles written after the publication of the Hart Papers and GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE when researchers could not find any events confirming the narrative story in the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by James Beverly Ward.

Unfortunately the dime novel theory ignores the amount of time and effort put into those 23 little pages. Enigmatics Masonic allegory theory is also wrong but it is much less wrong than your theory because it, at least, accounts for the amount of work put into the Beale Papers. For example,as noted in Enigmatics book, the Ciphers were handset to specific widths, but not just the ciphers, the letters were also handset to very specific widths. This is something no sane publisher of a dime novel would bother with.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Having business in Richmond is not the same as having a newspaper article in Richmond. Was the Beale article in the Richmond newspaper? And what does it have to do with Lynchburg being the capitol for a short time?

FACTS of HISTORY, Lynchburg, Va.: Lynchburg & Richmond, Va. "connection" via the James River; "Beale Expedition Era" - buying & selling Black Slaves... BLACK GOLD! "Beale PAPERS Pamphlet Era" - Hogheads of REAL Fire... TOBACCO... SMOKEY GOLD! Check it OUT! In newspapers, TOO!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

AND! When Lynchburg, Va. was state capital of Virginia, April 7-10, 1865... ALL "Richmond Stores" (code) was transferred to Lynchburg, Va. as Richmond "fell" to the Yanks. Gen. Lee advised CSA "Prez" Davis that ALL "Richmond Stores" be transferred to Lynchburg, Va. & points WEST, (OR). SO, THERE!

 

[franklin]

You seem like a nice guy, but you did not actually decipher the initial encoding on C3. You should have gotten a phrase like "Add RTM Wash Hotel" after the list of names followed by a Nota Bene/Postscript.

Sure thing, I did not know I had it wrong. Where is your complete message. Mine is posted on the forum if you care to look it up. I have not seen yours? Then you have the list of names? Have you found any in history books, census records or newspapers? I have found 12 from my decipherment.

 

[bigscoop]

Unfortunately the dime novel theory ignores the amount of time and effort put into those 23 little pages. Enigmatics Masonic allegory theory is also wrong but it is much less wrong than your theory because it, at least, accounts for the amount of work put into the Beale Papers. For example,as noted in Enigmatics book, the Ciphers were handset to specific widths, but not just the ciphers, the letters were also handset to very specific widths. This is something no sane publisher of a dime novel would bother with.

What do you know about old school type setting? "Width" was extremely important. So if only a work of fiction then this would have to be accounted for, especially by anyone with experience in printing and publishing. "Hand setting the type" was the "typesetter's" job! As far as time put into the narration, quite the leap to assume that it wasn't simply written by an experienced writer in a weekend. Just saying.....there are also perfectly reasonable and simple explanations to many things that we otherwise want to see as being complex.

 

[tad10]

What do you know about old school type setting? "Width" was extremely important. So if only a work of fiction then this would have to be accounted for, especially by anyone with experience in printing and publishing. "Hand setting the type" was the "typesetter's" job! As far as time put into the narration, quite the leap to assume that it wasn't simply written by an experienced writer in a weekend. Just saying.....there are also perfectly reasonable and simple explanations to many things that we otherwise want to see as being complex.

Lol. Letterpress printing is a very minor hobby of mine. So no,"a dime novel" is not a reasonable explanation for the Beale.

 

[tad10]

Sure thing, I did not know I had it wrong. Where is your complete message. Mine is posted on the forum if you care to look it up. I have not seen yours? Then you have the list of names? Have you found any in history books, census records or newspapers? I have found 12 from my decipherment.

Hi Franklin,

Cipher Three, like Cipher Two, is double encoded, so the list of names and reference to a "Morriss" are more misdirection. The first names were A. Devoe (I suppose a party member)of Essex County, Commonwealth of Virginia (abbreviated CWV) whose heir was C. Jetts of Stafford County also of the Commonwealth of Virginia (again abbreviated CWV). There is a Catherine Jetts recorded in Farquier County in 1818, which is right next to Stafford. The middle of my decipher is word salad (similar to C2 if linked to the actual DOI) and I didn't bother to figure out what random +/- letters or words would have given me a clear record of all 60 names.

Because, as I said, I realized by then it was all nonsense, like the purportedly decoded Cipher Two, meant to disguise the real purpose of the Beale (again something Stewart gets right in his book, he just gets the purpose wrong).

I would strongly urge you to assume the following when you next re-read the Beale Pages: no mistakes were made by the author(s) of the Beale. Everything you think is a mistake is intentional.

 

[legrand]

For Tad10:

BES = a variation of the word "BE
SOP = basically.......................... ALE".

This excerpt from the tale written in about 1841 by Poe:

[FONT=&quot]""It left me also in the dark," replied Legrand, "for a few days; during which I made diligent inquiry, in the neighborhood of Sullivan's Island, for any building which went by the name of the 'Bishop's Hotel'; for, of course, I dropped the obsolete word 'hostel.' Gaining no information on the subject, I was on the point of extending my sphere of search, and proceeding in a more systematic manner, when, one morning, it entered into my head, quite suddenly, that this 'Bishop's Hostel' might have some reference to an old family, of the name of Bessop, which, time out of mind, had held possession of an ancient manor-house, about four miles to the northward of the Island. I accordingly went over to the plantation, and reinstituted my inquiries among the older negroes of the place. At length one of the most aged of the women said that she had heard of such a place as Bessop's Castle, and thought that she could guide me to it, but that it was not a castle, nor a tavern, but a high rock."

_______

See the intimation to The Beale Papers? Poe knew the Beale story long before it was copyrighted in 1885. Coincidence?[/FONT]

 

[ECS]

Unfortunately the dime novel theory ignores the amount of time and effort put into those 23 little pages. Enigmatics Masonic allegory theory is also wrong but it is much less wrong than your theory because it, at least, accounts for the amount of work put into the Beale Papers. For example,as noted in Enigmatics book, the Ciphers were handset to specific widths, but not just the ciphers, the letters were also handset to very specific widths. This is something no sane publisher of a dime novel would bother with.

You are aware of where the Beale job pamphlet printer, John William Sherman, spent his final years?
All authors spend time and effort on their creations, so in your opinion, what makes Ward's copyrighted Beale Papers different?

 

[ECS]

Lol. Letterpress printing is a very minor hobby of mine. So no,"a dime novel" is not a reasonable explanation for the Beale.

What has letterpress printing have to do with the story that was printed by this method?
A dime novel with play along ciphers is still a dime novel with play along ciphers no matter what method of printing was utilized in the publishing of the finished product.

 

[ECS]

For Tad10:

BES = a variation of the word "BE
SOP = basically.......................... ALE".

This excerpt from the tale written in about 1841 by Poe:

[FONT="]""It left me also in the dark," replied Legrand, "for a few days; during which I made diligent inquiry, in the neighborhood of Sullivan's Island, for any building which went by the name of the 'Bishop's Hotel'; for, of course, I dropped the obsolete word 'hostel.' Gaining no information on the subject, I was on the point of extending my sphere of search, and proceeding in a more systematic manner, when, one morning, it entered into my head, quite suddenly, that this 'Bishop's Hostel' might have some reference to an old family, of the name of Bessop, which, time out of mind, had held possession of an ancient manor-house, about four miles to the northward of the Island. I accordingly went over to the plantation, and reinstituted my inquiries among the older negroes of the place. At length one of the most aged of the women said that she had heard of such a place as Bessop's Castle, and thought that she could guide me to it, but that it was not a castle, nor a tavern, but a high rock."

_______

See the intimation to The Beale Papers? Poe knew the Beale story long before it was copyrighted in 1885. Coincidence?[/FONT]

It is human nature to see what we want to see.
It is no secret that Poe's THE GOLD BUG influenced those that composed the 1885 Beale Papers, and was sold at Ward & Diggs Booksellers of Lynchburg.

 

[bigscoop]

Fellas, and this is cold hard fact, we can pull any number of written text from the bookshelf and we can, if we are so inclined to do, find these same type of alternate meanings and conspiracies. All one has to do to prove this to himself is to do so in fair, unbiased, and likewise fashion. What will be discovered by doing this is that the shear amount of text, and or text and numbers, can be selectively dissected and applied in the same fashion and to the same type of end. I've done this, more then once, so what I'm explaining isn't from the blind cuff and it provided a real eye opener and a lot of insight that I wouldn't have otherwise been exposed to. This is why you don't see me traveling these same type of paths anymore or buying into the many claims that result from these type of pre-focused and manufactured routes, because it's all "far too possible" to create right from the very start.

 

[Old Silver]

AND! When Lynchburg, Va. was state capital of Virginia, April 7-10, 1865... ALL "Richmond Stores" (code) was transferred to Lynchburg, Va. as Richmond "fell" to the Yanks. Gen. Lee advised CSA "Prez" Davis that ALL "Richmond Stores" be transferred to Lynchburg, Va. & points WEST, (OR). SO, THERE!

I don't think "stores" here means general stores.

 

[Old Silver]

It is human nature to see what we want to see.
It is no secret that Poe's THE GOLD BUG influenced those that composed the 1885 Beale Papers, and was sold at Ward & Diggs Booksellers of Lynchburg.

The 2nd line of your post proves the 1st line to be true.

 

[tad10]

You are aware of where the Beale job pamphlet printer, John William Sherman, spent his final years?
All authors spend time and effort on their creations, so in your opinion, what makes Ward's copyrighted Beale Papers different?

The "center justified" kerning of the Ciphers noted by Stewart, the multiple typeface changes on a single page on multiple pages, similar kerning of the letters on those pages.

I'm aware you're wedded to your 'dime novel' theory, but it just doesn't hold up.

 

[tad10]

Fellas, and this is cold hard fact

You're dead wrong about your "cold hard fact" for the simple fact that the Beale was encoded from a plaintext (actual several plaintexts) and if you know those you can eventually figure out its intended purpose. But you are correct with respect that biases can obfuscate your understanding of the Ciphers. I'm about midway through Paul Stewart's book, I believe now that if he hadn't been wedded to his Masonic Theory he would likely have figured out the preliminary crack of the Beale, he was definitely on the right track with discarding the cover story.

 

[ECS]

The "center justified" kerning of the Ciphers noted by Stewart, the multiple typeface changes on a single page on multiple pages, similar kerning of the letters on those pages.

I'm aware you're wedded to your 'dime novel' theory, but it just doesn't hold up.

So there is a hidden meaning in the way the type was set in the Beale job pamphlet?
How does it being a dime novel not hold up?
It is written in the form of a period dime novel, and none of the events in the job pamphlet occurred outside of the job pamphlet, indicating a a work of fiction.
What does not hold up are all these various theories that claim that the story is real or a cover story for a real event- they all fall to the wayside due to lack of collaborating outside of the Beale story evidence.
It reads like a novel, has a fictional story like a novel, therefor it is a novel.