Buried Military Tank

[starsplitter]

??

By the way, why did "Yamashita" come out Yama@^#&@#(#?

 

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[THing4CSA]

Hi All My TH'ing Friends
Lets get this back on the original subject. I was stationed at Fort Ord, CA back in 1979 through 1981 and heard the comment about a buried tank being found on the base back in the woods. What it turned out to be was a training tank pre WWII that had been driven out into the woods and found a soft spot where it sank up to its turret. The turret was later recovered for what ever reason but the body was abandoned where it not sits. The soil in the area although close to the coast is clay and once it becomes super wet it turns into soup. although the site is not quick sand if you find it in the wet time of year the ground is soft and resembles play dough. I think the US Army abandoned the tank as it was obsolete and no longer worth keeping in its inventory. This would be worth recovery as it may be worth rebuilding and placing into a Military museum. There are many items abandoned on US Military bases but a large amount of live ammunition is not an item I would be concerned about. Every US Military Base has a firing range, and many have impact areas that are marked 'Do not enter; This is an impact area' or something of the sort. If you have ever seen a sales paper for former US Military bases or property you will find a disclaimer that the property you are buying is 'where is and as is'. If you buy the property find out first what was going on there before the US Government moved out. You may end up finding abandoned US Military items including tanks buried on your land.
Just so you know Fort Ord, CA is no longer an active US Military Base but a training base for Reserves. This is a great place to spend time digging for coins, buttons, and all manner of relics. Please check in with the Officials that be and find out if it is allowable to search the area before you get busted.
Thanks
Dave Mork
'Digger-Dave'
THing4CSA
PS: Remember; Don't leave it in the ground!

 

[starsplitter]

THcsa:

About impact ranges: sometimes they are not marked. For example, earlier in this strand I related an experience of mine on one of the drop zones at Fort Bragg (I landed next to an old mortar). Also, scattered across the drop zone were spent .50 cals. In other words, you might hit ordinance where you have no reason to expect it.

Starsplitter

 

[Scribe]

I see the points THcsa is making, but you are also talking about a comparison between a US post on our soil to the Philippines in WWII.
I can see how a tank could get buried. As you pointed out in the right situation it can just sink in mucky terrain and the owners may not be in a position or inclination to retrieve it so it is abandoned.
I can also see how if the tank was in a trench fighting position and was abandoned.
The US troops would not want to leave equipment for the enemy to try to use against them later. They needed a quick, safe, and immediate solution to the problem.
Short of demolitions there are not a lot of ways to make a tank just go away, and yes, you could throw a bunch of it's own ammo in the turret, maybe some fuel, drop grenade in it and run...but I imagine that would be a very short line of volunteers for that duty.
Also the war is still going on. You don't have the luxury of waiting for inspiration to strike so dealing with enemy equipment and munitions are even more pressing.
I thought of checking the "Army Knowledge Online" to see what I could find in the on line manuals, but the US military of WWII is not the same as todays military. Policies change, attitudes change, available resources change...
So I can easily see how a Japanese tank could become buried in the Philippines during WWII. Along with that though I would also say that unexploded munitions would also be very possible, if not likely, in that environment.

 

[Zobex]

SWR I was referring to your lack of contribution to the forum and your lack of good social manners.

If you feel anyone on this forum has or is conducting an unlawful act upon either the Republic of the Philippines Sovereignty OR The Government Of The United States of America Sovereignty, then you may contact.

United States Department of Justice
Gregg Maisel
Assistant U.S. Attorney
District of Columbia
National Security Section
(202) 514-7746

or

Department of Homeland Security
Agent Loan Rupp
Embassy of the United States of America
Manila, Philippines
011-63-917-899-8751

or

Administrative Special Agent
Federal Bureau of Investigation'
Jim Nixon
Department of Legal Attaché
Embassy of the United States of America
Manila, Philippines


You may also contact Office of the President, National Security Adviser Norberto Gonzales, Republic of the Philippines.

Tell them I said "Hello".

Now, stop this childishness of yours and stay with the Forums topics.


Zobex

 

[wolfpaw518]

As I see it...

If the tank was buried by the Allies it would most likely have been stripped of anything valuable or worth while and buried to dispose of it, OR possibly filled with all sorts of relics destined for disposal.

If it was buried by the Japanese, it would have been stripped of only what the Japanese needed at the time and filled with anything else they didn't want the allies to find, possibility "boobytrapped" also.

If on the other hand it was somehow buried naturally, say by navel gunfire or air bombardment, then the contents would be intact.

As for the last, I remember reading a story of five Japanese tanks recovered. Seems they were backed into there own little caves/bunkers. U.S. navel gunfire all but leveled the hill, burying all the tanks. Years later, thru natural erosion the barrels were found sticking out of the hillside.

ya never know

neil

p.s. ALL 3 cases would have the high potential to have live ordinance aboard!

 

[Zobex]

The concept of burying a tank for defensive measures is not new and it was used in and by the Iraq Military in 1991. Saddam knew from the beginning that the formal Iraq military would be defeated in short time and he used the exact same battle tactics as used by Japan in 1941-45. The attrition of formal military structure would be used in order to buy time so that the cost of war would grind down the USA. Bush strategy was flawed from the start. “Mission Accomplished.”.
Saddam had warned the USG that it would be costly for the invasion and it has proved to be correct. War is lost. The stated goals will never be achieved.

As for the tanks Iraq used a tactic similar to what was used in Kosovo. Decoy tanks put into realistic emplacements. In Kosovo tanks were built into fortifications of wood and earth, leaving the top turret exposed. BUT also they deployed rubber tanks or balloon tanks. That being nothing more than a big air bag like a blow up display at a mall. BUT, inside they placed a space heater that would give the aerial surveillance guys a heat signature making them think they were real tanks. So Bush forces would expend real weapons destroying a balloon. The next night another balloon would be deployed and again it would be destroyed. That is how the USG had inflated reports of destroyed tanks. Big embarrassment after the war. Also the destroyed real tanks were propped up in pieces and space heaters were added to give the signature of real tanks. Junk tanks kept getting blown up. Serbian forces were not defeated. They just organized and withdrew.

Saddam’s tank crews knew they would be decimated and in the same fashion reassembled junk tanks so Bush could blow it up again and again.

As the Iraq military buried tanks up to their turrets, so did the Serbian forces and likewise did the Jap Forces. In each a disciplined dedicated force with lesser hardware to use.

The totally fried tanks that I examined in Kosovo and south west Iraq are testaments to this tactic. Fried tanks with burnt bodies.

But, in the case of the Japanese tank mentioned in this thread. That was buried to be used as an armored vault. Not a gun emplacement. As I posted earlier, 8 feet of fill sandy soil on a flat site with no depression above only indicates an intentional burial. You do not bury a tank in sandy soil near a beach area with any intentions of coming back and driving it again. Zero chance of that.

Oh yes, the tactic of fall back and then guerrilla warfare, the plan of Saddam, well it is working.


Zobex

 

[wolfpaw518]

So Neil...you don't see some Japanese hijacking their own tank, filling it slap-full-o-treasures...digging a humongous hole and filling it back in (like all good MDer's do) while in the mist of a hasty retreat?

hijacking there own tank, no...being ORDERED to fill it slap-full-o-treasure...digging a humongous hole and filling it back in.....maybe.

neil

 

[sle]

To see is to believe. Mine is only a story as relayed by one of my crews in my previous projects who happen to be one of the two who dug it before. I was also thinking that if it is not true then why risk offering it to me when I can prove its truthfulness by just a few feet of digging? I already resolved that issue to myself. My issue here is what is inside the tank?

Well, this is a free forum. One cannot just expect good stuffs to come out. I am just thankful for some very good advice from some people.

Don’t worry I will share some pictures of the tank and its contents if it will be pushed through. Right now am still worried that we might accidentally create a big hole down there.

By the way, the site is not located along the beach. It is very far from the shore actually. It is near the center of the town proper. There lies the big problem because the area is populated.

Can I just pour a strong acid to the tank to dissolve every metal on it except gold? Could it trigger any firing or explosion? Has anyone done some experiments on dissolving bombs or its firing mechanisms in acids and see if they explode? (Sorry to somebody who is interested on the tank.) But if it is the safest way then why not? Please advise me.

 

[Zobex]

Yea, I think SWR is right. Only a Moron would bury a tank. But what would you expect from a Psychiatric Center State Hospital.

http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/Tank_Ordnance.htm


Disorder | Rating

Paranoid: High

Schizoid: Low

Schizotypal: Moderate

Antisocial: Low

Borderline: Low

Histrionic: High

Narcissistic: High

Avoidant: High

Dependent: High

Obsessive-Compulsive: Moderate


Zobex

 

[nhbenz]

Thank goodness they buried that before the enemies got their hands on it . The Iraqi "burial" of tanks is somewhat irrelevant here... mostly they were in prepared pits that would hide them, but they could be easily mobilized in short time.

 

[tradderran]

To see is to believe. Mine is only a story as relayed by one of my crews in my previous projects who happen to be one of the two who dug it before. I was also thinking that if it is not true then why risk offering it to me when I can prove its truthfulness by just a few feet of digging? I already resolved that issue to myself. My issue here is what is inside the tank?

Well, this is a free forum. One cannot just expect good stuffs to come out. I am just thankful for some very good advice from some people.

Don’t worry I will share some pictures of the tank and its contents if it will be pushed through. Right now am still worried that we might accidentally create a big hole down there.

By the way, the site is not located along the beach. It is very far from the shore actually. It is near the center of the town proper. There lies the big problem because the area is populated.

Can I just pour a strong acid to the tank to dissolve every metal on it except gold? Could it trigger any firing or explosion? Has anyone done some experiments on dissolving bombs or its firing mechanisms in acids and see if they explode? (Sorry to somebody who is interested on the tank.) But if it is the safest way then why not? Please advise me.

Hello If you will just dig down to the top of the tank. Take a pic of the top
with today's newspaper beside it with date legibly. Send me the pic. Then
I will come over and open your tank for 50% of what we find. I will pay the expenses. If nothing is in the tank I get the tank. I will bring my own.
People and my own security THIS IS NOT A JOKE You have a PM

 

[tagasilay]

Hi,

In the philippines, especially mindanao, and in the middle of a town, no way you would be able to dig out the tank without stirring up a hornets nest. If its in private land then do it in less than 5hrs, civil law would apply and the ownership will rest on the land owner but then again in mindanao...anybody can own you. Well in case nothing of value is found, you can sell it for scrap at 11pesos a kilo, if its a five tonner then you get 50000 pesos or a little more than a thousand dollars...maybe you should bring a tv crew, they could give you some sort of protection from the...military. Good luck with the local abu sayaff(muslim extremists) and the npa(communists).

God bless,

Jose

 

[Zobex]

Hi,

In the philippines, especially mindanao, and in the middle of a town, no way you would be able to dig out the tank without stirring up a hornets nest. If its in private land then do it in less than 5hrs, civil law would apply and the ownership will rest on the land owner but then again in mindanao...anybody can own you. Well in case nothing of value is found, you can sell it for scrap at 11pesos a kilo, if its a five tonner then you get 50000 pesos or a little more than a thousand dollars...maybe you should bring a tv crew, they could give you some sort of protection from the...military. Good luck with the local abu sayaff(muslim extremists) and the npa(communists).

God bless,

Jose

No that is the wrong approach.

FIRST you make it real public. Put a fence around it and sell tickets to the locals to come and watch you dig. Then sell concession goods, beer, coke, bar-b-q and other food. Then CHARGE the locals 50 peso's an hour for them the privilege to dig on the tank. Oh yea, a few pretty girls in shorts and tank tops.

After all of that the Military will come in and run everyone off at gun point and they they will try and figure out how to make money on it.

But it would be fun while it lasted.

Mindanao is one of the last frontiers, kind of like the Alaskan gold rush of the 1890's .

Zobex

 

[sle]

Tradderran,

OK. I'll come back to you if my other offers will not be pushed through, just in case, can you settle for 40/60 in our favor?

 

[tradderran]

Tradderran,

OK. I'll come back to you if my other offers will not be pushed through, just in case, can you settle for 40/60 in our favor?

Lets continue this in PMs. you have a pm

 

[Ryan1979]

I think this is totally possible. My grandfather was with the Engineers during WWII in the European Theater. He drove a D8 equivalent bulldozer. He said they buried stuff all the time. Broken down unrepairable equipment (trucks, artillery, etc), people (concentration camps), you name it. He drove over two different land mines with two different bulldozers that exploded at two different times during the war and blew the corresponding track completely off. How do I know he was telling the truth Because he said his helmet flew around inside the steel enclosure and cut his face to pieces both times. He has the scars to prove it all over his face and head. Totally possible if you ask me.

 

[Ryan1979]

I think that's possible it has something of value in it. Treasure? Who knows? We all know crazier things have happened. They happen every day. If the locals were afraid of opening it, they must have had a reason to be afraid, right? To me, that is somewhat telling right there.

 

[Zobex]

I think this is totally possible. My grandfather was with the Engineers during WWII in the European Theater. He drove a D8 equivalent bulldozer. He said they buried stuff all the time. Broken down unrepairable equipment (trucks, artillery, etc), people (concentration camps), you name it. He drove over two different land mines with two different bulldozers that exploded at two different times during the war and blew the corresponding track completely off. How do I know he was telling the truth Because he said his helmet flew around inside the steel enclosure and cut his face to pieces both times. He has the scars to prove it all over his face and head. Totally possible if you ask me.

My Father did similar things. Was in the Army Rangers headed to Europe but in mid ocean was sent to the South Pacific. Fought all the way up to the aborted invasion of Japan. Between 1945 and 1946 he was reassigned to disposition. That meant destroying and ditching military equipment. There was a term in most all war contracts that military equipment could not be sold or given out at the end of the war also could not be returned to the USA. So all of those trucks, trailers, tractors etc. had to be destroyed. He spent months filling LST's with equipment, going out into the ocean, starting them up and driving of the end of the ship. Fuel depots were either burned or worse buried. Aircraft were pushed into piles, covered in aviation gas and burned till they melted. Then the melt was shoved into holes and covered up. Jap fuel was burned, guns were dumped in the ocean or buried. Even though he was combat, at the end of each fighting encounter, since he had been trained demolition, he was tagged to drive a dozer to bury dead Japs. In one time he had the job cutting a mass grave for US dead. There was a near riot in the unit over that. It is possible to be either a US or Jap tank, with or without treasure. You never know. Maybe it is only a fuel tank and the people have fuzzy memories.

Zobex

 

[tagasilay]

Hi Zobex,

Right you are about the carnival recovery...your more pinoy(filipino) than i am.

God bless,

Jose