Blowing The Cast Iron Lids Off Of Beale

[ECS]

...

Now for those of you who are on board with all of this here's something of interest, a possible avenue you may wish to pursue. If that publication was produced for just the specific and limited audience in the Lynchburg region for the reasons outlined then this means that the author had reason to believe someone in that region was being targeted, perhaps several individuals. And if this is indeed the case then it means that other folks in the region had been party of the detailed affairs as well.

Maybe now you can start to entertain all of that local lore, romance, legend, etc. as i said long ago, "Big Money always leaves a trail." And though we don't know just exactly how reliable the information is, we do have evidence that Risque was receiving money as result of the Adams Onis Treaty. See where I'm going with all of this now.......

...and it always returns to that extended Risqué family bloodline, as I said long ago and many times since.

 

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[bigscoop]

Are you referring to John Laflin's Lafitte memoirs that have been judged as fake forgeries along with his other forged papers of historical Americans?
Even if some of the information is "accurate", as there have been many books on Lafitte where this "accurate" information was probably obtained, any information from Laflin's work is fruit from the poisoned tree.
Bigscoop, you and I have had this discussion many times over, and Laflin's work does contain events attributed to Lafitte, long after Lafitte's death.

First, all I'm suggesting to you is this, as far as the memoirs go you need to do a little face time with some of people casting opinions about those memoirs, and you need to do a little investigation into the people who's opinions you choose to select. You might be surprised at what you learn. Sure, it will take time and dedication but this is the only way to fully familiarize yourself with all aspects of the situation. I can't do this for you. I can only tell you what I have learned by doing so.

And second, it was information in the memoirs that has lead me to some of what I have already posted. General history resources and the opinions of others didn't lead me there.

 

[bigscoop]

...and it always returns to that extended Risqué family bloodline, as I said long ago and many times since.

And as I long ago told you, "Just not in the purely fictional manner in which you imagine."

 

[bigscoop]

By the way, Prince of doubt, just keep in mind that the memoirs were made public "after the Beale narration" and not before.
Now then, your pamphlet author offers two deposits that bear a total value of roughly $950,000.00 when figured on values of the period.
In the memoirs we are told of $476'000 that the commune had put away just prior to the first Beale deposit. This is "exactly" 1/2 of the total of the two alleged Beale deposits, this first deposit coming on the heals of the treaty's signing and George Graham's, (infirm Secretary of War and "Federal Banker") visit to Galveston Island. Shortly afterwards you have your fist alleged Beale deposit. The second deposit comes on the heals of the treaty's ratification and Kearny's last visit to Galveston Island, this deposit in perfect chronological order with the first deposit and Laffite's claim that at that time he, "recommended that they stick to their promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places." And Poof! In perfect chronological order we have our second alleged Beale deposit. "The memoirs were made public after the Beale narration, not before!" So how then did the alleged forger, Laflin, know? But the much bigger question, how did the pamphlet author know? Hmmmm........

"Boom, Baby! BOOM!" (There goes a lot of those cast iron lids!)

PS: Be very careful in how attempt to counter this info as I have a real BOMB just waiting for you, in reply to one of your "direct connections" that you and Franklin and Reb keep saying I have yet to show, but very-very clearly already have. Others are already on to this and way ahead of you.

 

[bigscoop]

“St. Louis”....this IS NOT in reference to just St. Louis Missouri as you all assume. Here it is yet again, in the following link, and this time do yourself a favor and read it all. “St. Louis” translates into “Island of the Serpent”...”Island of The Snake”....”Snake island”. I can't believe I have to keep presenting these documented and deposed testimonies from an official government record.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/USN/1817/18171215Amelia.html

Also, George Graham was directly involved with Bank of America which is why Mr. Gates suggested sometime back that the deposits were possibly used to shore up that bank for a period of ten-years! And now you know where these deposits likely ended up....

“Thomas J. Beale” of the narration is just one of those share holders who got screwed out of his shares, Morriss possessing knowledge of this, and the manner in which the narration is written only being recognizable by those “who could make all of the required connections” or, “those who already had knowledge of these affairs.” This being the author's true targeted audience!!!!

So YES! Galveston Island, or, Isle of the Snake, Isle of the Serpent, Snake Island, “St Louis” IS directly referenced in the narration!!!!

Geezzzz......you guys are really missing picking up on all of this? “READ THE DEPOSITIONS!” Especially article “3” that I have already presented a few times. You couldn't possibly ask for anymore then I have already given you unless you are just too unwilling to give up on Virginia and all the local lore and romance.

The St. Louis "Corp".....now consider what ECS posted about the bank of St. Louis and the narrations detailed account about "trading silver for jewels to save on transportation." Do you really think this could be done so off-the-cuff without a lot of arrangements and resources already being in place. Not hardly!

"The Perilous Enterprise"
"The Game That Was Worth The Candle"

 

[ECS]

...
it was information in the memoirs that has lead me to some of what I have already posted. General history resources and the opinions of others didn't lead me there.

That explains a lot.
Fruit from the poisoned tree!

 

[ECS]

...
Now then, your pamphlet author offers two deposits that bear a total value of roughly $950,000.00 when figured on values of the period.
In the memoirs we are told of $476'000 that the commune had put away just prior to the first Beale deposit. This is "exactly" 1/2 of the total of the two alleged Beale deposits, this first deposit coming on the heals of the treaty's signing and George Graham's, (infirm Secretary of War and "Federal Banker") visit to Galveston Island.
Shortly afterwards you have your fist alleged Beale deposit. The second deposit comes on the heals of the treaty's ratification and Kearny's last visit to Galveston Island, this deposit in perfect chronological order with the first deposit and Laffite's claim that at that time he, "recommended that they stick to their promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places." And Poof! In perfect chronological order we have our second alleged Beale deposit.
"The memoirs were made public after the Beale narration, not before!" So how then did the alleged forger, Laflin, know? But the much bigger question, how did the pamphlet author know?...

PS: Be very careful in how attempt to counter this info as I have a real BOMB just waiting for you, in reply to one of your "direct connections" that you and Franklin and Reb keep saying I have yet to show, but very-very clearly already have. Others are already on to this and way ahead of you.

"I recommended to Mr Hall, Mr Campbell, Mr Sherman and those from Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute and distribute the gold to the indicated places" is the entire quote that refers events that occurred on February 24, 1821, but the entry allegedly written by Jean Lafitte in John Laflin's forged diary is January 4, 1847.
The premise of Laflin's forged Lafitte memoirs is that Lafitte faked his death, and lived 20 or more years under a different identity.
That is evidence enough to discount any reference from this a proof of anything.
Then there is no mention of Thomas J Beale in this memoir, but there is Mr Sherman, that lead you to create a whole Beale theory based upon this mention, about Mathew "Mexico" Sherman and Patterson's good ship TORPEDO and Girard's opium trade with China that alas, has nothing to do with the job pamphlet's Beale story.
Yes, these fraudulent Lafitte memoirs were created many years after the 1885 Beale Papers were published, and it is very possible John Laflin was aware of this dime novel, as well as the earlier books on Lafitte that he utilized in his forged work.
A forger such as Laflin who has been considered the best at his craft, does intensive research, uses paper and ink of the time period to convince the unwary buyer.

 

[franklin]

"I recommended to Mr Hall, Mr Campbell, Mr Sherman and those from Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute and distribute the gold to the indicated places" is the entire quote that refers events that occurred on February 24, 1821, but the entry allegedly written by Jean Lafitte in John Laflin's forged diary is January 4, 1847.
The premise of Laflin's forged Lafitte memoirs is that Lafitte faked his death, and lived 20 or more years under a different identity.
That is evidence enough to discount any reference from this a proof of anything.
Then there is no mention of Thomas J Beale in this memoir, but there is Mr Sherman, that lead you to create a whole Beale theory based upon this mention, about Mathew "Mexico" Sherman and Patterson's good ship TORPEDO and Girard's opium trade with China that alas, has nothing to do with the job pamphlet's Beale story.
Yes, these fraudulent Lafitte memoirs were created many years after the 1885 Beale Papers were published, and it is very possible John Laflin was aware of this dime novel, as well as the earlier books on Lafitte that he utilized in his forged work.
A forger such as Laflin who has been considered the best at his craft, does intensive research, uses paper and ink of the time period to convince the unwary buyer.

I know Jean Lafitte died in 1823, he did not fake his death and he did not live on under an alias. I did have the captains name that took over his ship during the battle after JL was killed.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

By the way, Prince of doubt, just keep in mind that the memoirs were made public "after the Beale narration" and not before.
Now then, your pamphlet author offers two deposits that bear a total value of roughly $950,000.00 when figured on values of the period.
In the memoirs we are told of $476'000 that the commune had put away just prior to the first Beale deposit. This is "exactly" 1/2 of the total of the two alleged Beale deposits, this first deposit coming on the heals of the treaty's signing and George Graham's, (infirm Secretary of War and "Federal Banker") visit to Galveston Island. Shortly afterwards you have your fist alleged Beale deposit. The second deposit comes on the heals of the treaty's ratification and Kearny's last visit to Galveston Island, this deposit in perfect chronological order with the first deposit and Laffite's claim that at that time he, "recommended that they stick to their promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places." And Poof! In perfect chronological order we have our second alleged Beale deposit. "The memoirs were made public after the Beale narration, not before!" So how then did the alleged forger, Laflin, know? But the much bigger question, how did the pamphlet author know? Hmmmm........

"Boom, Baby! BOOM!" (There goes a lot of those cast iron lids!)

PS: Be very careful in how attempt to counter this info as I have a real BOMB just waiting for you, in reply to one of your "direct connections" that you and Franklin and Reb keep saying I have yet to show, but very-very clearly already have. Others are already on to this and way ahead of you.

I.E.D., eh...? Send in the U.S. MARINES! Betcha YOU didn't know... U.S. MARINES started as CSA MARINES! YEE HA!

 

[bigscoop]

"I recommended to Mr Hall, Mr Campbell, Mr Sherman and those from Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute and distribute the gold to the indicated places" is the entire quote that refers events that occurred on February 24, 1821, but the entry allegedly written by Jean Lafitte in John Laflin's forged diary is January 4, 1847.

Dude, think about what you just said.
You really need to "read the memoirs", especially the first portion that explains in clear English this very thing.
WOW! Obviously you've not even briefed yourself on the memoirs, let alone read it and researched any of it. Why do you continue to try to pursue arguments/debates in subjects that you have clearly not even personally involved yourself in?

So please explain how your pamphlet author, in 1885, clearly knew about the details in the Memoirs that weren't made public until the 1940's? It's for these same reasons that "many" historians are starting to reconsider their opinions as to the forgery claims. And, the author of that book, well, in conversation with him he even admitted to me that there are some accurate details in those memoirs that he still can't explain. So do yourself a favor, "read the memoirs first, then investigate and follow up on your own so you can form your own opinions" Constantly trying to hold argument by way of second voice and quotes really isn't the same as using personally knowledgeable voice.

 

[bigscoop]

I know Jean Lafitte died in 1823, he did not fake his death and he did not live on under an alias. I did have the captains name that took over his ship during the battle after JL was killed.

Well, if you have that conclusive "documentation" you're the only one in the world who has it. On the other hand, the various rumors and claimed accurate reports of his death were pretty common, about as common as all the different cipher solutions we have seen in recent years.

 

[franklin]

Well, if you have that conclusive "documentation" you're the only one in the world who has it. On the other hand, the various rumors and claimed accurate reports of his death were pretty common, about as common as all the different cipher solutions we have seen in recent years.

No I am not the only one. It was in the Cartagena Newspaper 1823. Nothing else was heard of Jean Lafitte after he was wounded on the General Santanda and he died the next day. He enlisted in the Cartagena Navy in 1822.

 

[bigscoop]

No I am not the only one. It was in the Cartagena Newspaper 1823. Nothing else was heard of Jean Lafitte after he was wounded on the General Santanda and he died the next day. He enlisted in the Cartagena Navy in 1822.

Exactly, as this is just one of several such articles telling different versions of his death. On the other hand there are sources that tell of his returning to France, and so on and so on. All of this consistent with the claim that many stories were intentionally generated regarding his death. Just saying......"take your pick."

 

[ECS]

Dude, think about what you just said.
You really need to "read the memoirs", especially the first portion that explains in clear English this very thing.
WOW! Obviously you've not even briefed yourself on the memoirs, let alone read it and researched any of it. Why do you continue to try to pursue arguments/debates in subjects that you have clearly not even personally involved yourself in?

So please explain how your pamphlet author, in 1885, clearly knew about the details in the Memoirs that weren't made public until the 1940's? It's for these same reasons that "many" historians are starting to reconsider their opinions as to the forgery claims. And, the author of that book, well, in conversation with him he even admitted to me that there are some accurate details in those memoirs that he still can't explain...

"The author of that book... in conversations with him"? Who are you referring to? John Laflin?
This forger first claimed to be Jean Lafitte's great grandson and used the name John Andrechyne Lafitte, and other last names including Nafsinger and Mateka.
http://altonmuseum.com/newsletterSummer.pdf
What many historians have notice that other works he brought forth for sale in Texas concerning the Alamo, The "De la Pena Diary" and the "Issac Millsap Letter" handwriting analysis have determined when compared to the Lafitte memoirs, they are all written by the same hand, Laflin's.
Now what details in the 1885 Beale Papers dime novel are mentioned in Laflin's forged Memoirs?
Dude, you need to think about what you post when using a forged fictional work to prove another work you have already claimed as fiction to be true.
That is not using a "personally knowledgeable voice".

 

[franklin]

I see all of this as a major waste time. There is no connections to the Beale Papers. We can research history down to names, places and still end up with no evidence of anything that pertains to the Beale Treasure. I believe we need to get back to the roots. I hate chasing shadows.

 

[bigscoop]

I see all of this as a major waste time. There is no connections to the Beale Papers. We can research history down to names, places and still end up with no evidence of anything that pertains to the Beale Treasure. I believe we need to get back to the roots. I hate chasing shadows.

Then don't waste your time here. Or maybe its note that big of a waste of time? Chasing shadows is what it's all about because ain't none of them still alive. So if you hate chasing shadows I'd pick another line of entertainment.

 

[franklin]

Then don't waste your time here. Or maybe its note that big of a waste of time? Chasing shadows is what it's all about because ain't none of them still alive. So if you hate chasing shadows I'd pick another line of entertainment.

bigscoop, All the history you are finding and having everyone read and research is a waste of their time. Until you can show a connection to the Beale Papers in Virginia or at least Captain Thomas J. Beale being one of Lafitte's pirate why post that information. No connection whatsoever. I could go back to the Alamo history and say they put up a fight 187 Texicans against 20,000 Mexican Army because they were guarding all of the assets of Texas so they could bring it all back and bury it in Virginia. Then we can research all 187 men to see if Captain Thomas J. Beale was at the Alamo. It is all useless. You keep on chasing butterflies. I will take your advise and leave you to your dream of being the man that solved the Beale Treasure Mystery------NOT.

 

[bigscoop]

bigscoop, All the history you are finding and having everyone read and research is a waste of their time. Until you can show a connection to the Beale Papers in Virginia or at least Captain Thomas J. Beale being one of Lafitte's pirate why post that information. No connection whatsoever. I could go back to the Alamo history and say they put up a fight 187 Texicans against 20,000 Mexican Army because they were guarding all of the assets of Texas so they could bring it all back and bury it in Virginia. Then we can research all 187 men to see if Captain Thomas J. Beale was at the Alamo. It is all useless. You keep on chasing butterflies. I will take your advise and leave you to your dream of being the man that solved the Beale Treasure Mystery------NOT.

See ya! Be safe out there.

 

[ECS]

... the author of that book, well, in conversation with him he even admitted to me that there are some accurate details in those memoirs that he still can't explain...

What author, what book, and what does this have to do with the Beale story?
Always with the dangling one liners that are never explained, Bigscoop.

 

[ECS]

bigscoop, All the history you are finding and having everyone read and research is a waste of their time. Until you can show a connection to the Beale Papers in Virginia or at least Captain Thomas J. Beale being one of Lafitte's pirate why post that information. No connection whatsoever...

While Bigscoop takes on this magical misery history tour with all the dangling one liners and open ended questions, which he cleverly employs to dismiss valid remarks of others that question these "everyone who was alive in 1812 to 1825 is a part of the Beale story, no solid real "connexions" are ever produced.

No where in the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by James Beverly Ward is a mention of the Adams-Onis Treaty, a Saint Louis Corporation, Galveston, New Orleans, Jean Lafitte, Patterson, Girard, pirates, slavery, the Merchants & Planters Hotel and the Washington Hotel being used as a Holiday Inn Express for the slave trade, and no sea voyages or mention of Captain Mathew "Mexico" Sherman and the good ship TORPEDO.
While all the above did exist at one time , the only "connexion" to the Beale story exists in the unlimited imagination of one who can create an entire connective history from one word or vague reference that can be found in the 1885 dime novel job pamphlet.