Blowing The Cast Iron Lids Off Of Beale

[bigscoop]

The three main characters attached to the narration are Ward, Morriss, and Thomas J. Beale. Keep this in mind.....

If we use just the amount of the two deposits offered in the pamphlet and we divide that sum by the thirty assumed benefactors we arrive at about $30'000 - $35'000 to each. Now if that money was sitting in an interest bearing trust for some 60 years, say until 1885, then what would the value of each share be? Well, using just minimal rate as was common to the period we learn that the value of each share would be just as the author describes, totally more then ¾ a million, this being sue to the compounding interest factor.


And if we were an unknown heir to this original share holder what might we have to establish in order to get our hands on all that money? First you have to establish that the money is there and waiting, and second you have to be able to prove that you are indeed a rightful and legal heir. This is what your author was attempting to do with the publication of that pamphlet, this author having to be well known to both Morriss and Ward. Morriss knew Beale and the those arrangements/circumstances and in 1862 he passed this information on to someone, the Ward and Morriss relationship at that time already discussed and established in these forums many-many times.



The only person with any chance of capitalizing on this trust would be a “Beale”. The main character in the narration is a “Thomas J. Beale” who had “important business affairs in Richmond” and the only known Thomas J. Beale of that period was the alderman “Thomas J. Beale” of that same city, “parents unknown.”

Now for those of you who are on board with all of this here's something of interest, a possible avenue you may wish to pursue. If that publication was produced for just the specific and limited audience in the Lynchburg region for the reasons outlined then this means that the author had reason to believe someone in that region was being targeted, perhaps several individuals. And if this is indeed the case then it means that other folks in the region had been party of the detailed affairs as well.

Maybe now you can start to entertain all of that local lore, romance, legend, etc. as i said long ago, "Big Money always leaves a trail." And though we don't know just exactly how reliable the information is, we do have evidence that Risque was receiving money as result of the Adams Onis Treaty. See where I'm going with all of this now.......

 

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[bigscoop]

Let's see, the narration begins in 1817, just as does everything else I've outlined. So let's take a look at cipher C1 and the three four-digit string ending 1817... 1164, 1496, 1817,.....

C1 is far too long to offer just the location of a secure deposit so it must also contain some type of an explanation as well. These four-digit codes in C1, 19 of them in total and the only cipher applying them beyond "1000" in C2 that was used for the letter "x" as there were no key words beginning with x, are not "letters". The three four-digit string referenced is likely the identity of the "Saint Louis Corp" or some other entity stemming from the 1817 beginning, could even be the name of the original share holder trust that was established then.

Your author's entire purpose for the publishing of his narration, and in his own words, was with the hope of bringing the missing paper to light, that it might still be in the hands of one of his readers. He wasn't looking for the key, not as so many assume, per say.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The Uptown Plantation was the Beale family cash cow, Sr making sure that everybody of interest got their cut, including his ex-wife. When he transferred that property to Jr, something he had to do, that cash cow kept to the routine. But when Jr. unexpectedly died that cash cow quit functioning, which is why the suit was filed. This also explaining why she didn't file that suit until Jr died. That cash cow, and the true nature of its business, being part of that secret that had been limited to just a small circle of immediate family and one trusted friend.


The reason Thomas Beale Sr had to sell that property all goes back to the St. Louis Corporation and the position it found itself in when the Adams Onis Treaty put in effect the end of the company's enterprise, Sr having to make good on the plantation that had actually been made possible by that corporation's activities. So in other words, even though Sr's name was on that property the Uptown had actually been part of the corporation's hidden assets/holdings. By selling the Uptown to Jr - Sr was actually doing what was required, turning that corporate holding into cash while at the same time preserving the family cash flow for as long as he could, or until which time the corporation finally paid on his closing shares. But Sr died, and then Jr, which ended the cash cow payouts and also left those “secret shares” without a benefactor. This is why nothing was filed against the selling of the plantation to Jr until 1824, because until his unexpected death things had continued to function just as they had prior to the sale. This also explains why there were no wills, because that secret corporate holding couldn't actually be willed.

Chloe was NEVER a wife... nor was she an ex-wife...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Doesn't matter.....she was the mother of Sr.'s legitimate children, as was concluded and accepted in court, as was her main charge in the filing of her suit. That suit was all about legitimate heirs VS illegitimate heirs.

WRONG, Chloe was the mother of Thomas Beale, Jr., who was illegitimate; the other kids by Thomas Beale, Sr.'s WIFE, were legitimate... AND! LEFT OUT!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, the "heirs" would have to be LEGAL heirs; THAT would be a MESS! IF Thomas Beale, Jr. was TJB, there would be NO heirs; he died in 1823 (he was only 23)... left NO "issues" (heirs).

 

[bigscoop]

Don't think in terms of heirs to the estate, but rather think in terms of heirs to the trust that was holding those deposits. In other words, and this is some of that complication I was speaking of earlier, the Uptown Plantation was just the cash cow resulting from something much larger, this being its direct connection to the Saint Louis Corp and its activities. The Uptown was just a front to all of this, this was the real investment looming in the shadows. This is why Sr. couldn't simply will the Uptown away because he had obligations to that corp and the Uptown was that obligation. Yes, the Uptown was providing cash flow that was supporting everything else but the real payoff had been arranged prior to all of this due to his shares in that corp. In other words, the Uptown was a "Saint Louis Corp" asset, a shell business that served as an important outlet for a great deal of that merchandise coming out of Galveston Island. When this company realized that the Adams Onis Treaty signaled the end of these activities Thomas Beale was under obligation to turn the Uptown into "a cash asset", which he did when he sold it to Jr. But remember, the corp still had years of business and stored merchandise to sell so Jr was still certain to realize handsome profits from the Uptown for quite some time, but then both Sr and Jr die and the entire affair went quickly south, the cash cow quit producing and that's when the suit was filed in order to regain that cash cow.

 

[ECS]

...
The only person with any chance of capitalizing on this trust would be a “Beale”. The main character in the narration is a “Thomas J. Beale” who had “important business affairs in Richmond” and the only known Thomas J. Beale of that period was the alderman “Thomas J. Beale” of that same city, “parents unknown.”

Now for those of you who are on board with all of this here's something of interest, a possible avenue you may wish to pursue. If that publication was produced for just the specific and limited audience in the Lynchburg region for the reasons outlined then this means that the author had reason to believe someone in that region was being targeted, perhaps several individuals. And if this is indeed the case then it means that other folks in the region had been party of the detailed affairs as well.

Maybe now you can start to entertain all of that local lore, romance, legend, etc. as i said long ago, "Big Money always leaves a trail." And though we don't know just exactly how reliable the information is, we do have evidence that Risque was receiving money as result of the Adams Onis Treaty. See where I'm going with all of this now.

Can you prove the existence of this "ST LOUIS CORPORATION" , and its members and connection to the Uptown Plantation, or is this a fictional speculation to prove the Beale story in Ward's pamphlet which you have deemed fiction, as true?
While this new recycled theory is "entertaining, reliability of this information is very questionable indeed, but you do continue to support the fact that the 1885 Beale Papers presented story is a work of fiction.

 

[bigscoop]

To quote a poster in these forums, "I put the results of my research out here, folks can follow up if they want" or something to that effect.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Problem is, "Scoop"... MOST researchers would include the "SOURCE" (documents, court records, etc.) so that OTHER researchers can find the SAME info; I knew of Uptown, but not the "WHAT" of Uptown... (selling SLAVES...?). Hmmm... SO! HOW do we "follow up"...?

 

[Benjamin Gates]

This all rings, in my opinion, of PRE-KGC activities. I suppose if we follow the money from the ST. LOUIS CORPORATION we will find THE bank in question that
continues to hold the "deposits" to this day. Seed money (loans) funding new corporations.
Let's call them (PRE-KGC) E.L.M. - Enlightened Leaders of Mericka , ... I've had to much to drink right now ... Gates

 

[ECS]

Keep in mind, the 1816 BANK of ST LOUIS was formed by fur traders who took fur as collateral for loans, the board of directors included Manuel Lisa and Auguste Chouteau who had several perilous expeditions west of the Mississippi.

 

[ECS]

... the Uptown was a "Saint Louis Corp" asset, a shell business that served as an important outlet for a great deal of that merchandise coming out of Galveston Island. When this company realized that the Adams Onis Treaty signaled the end of these activities Thomas Beale was under obligation to turn the Uptown into "a cash asset", which he did when he sold it to Jr. But remember, the corp still had years of business and stored merchandise to sell so Jr was still certain to realize handsome profits from the Uptown for quite some time, but then both Sr and Jr die and the entire affair went quickly south, the cash cow quit producing and that's when the suit was filed in order to regain that cash cow.

First, if one is to believe that the deposits made that match the Adam-Onis dates of business profits made in New Orleans and Galveston from this alleged Saint Louis Corporation, why involve a total stranger, Morriss, and why transport this gold, silver, and jewels to Bedford county Virginia?
Second, if this alleged Saint Louis Corporation was providing a cash cow to the Uptown Plantation, why is this money maker NEVER mentioned in any of these court cases?
Even then, financial disclosure would be required in this type of legal case.

 

[bigscoop]

Problem is, "Scoop"... MOST researchers would include the "SOURCE" (documents, court records, etc.) so that OTHER researchers can find the SAME info; I knew of Uptown, but not the "WHAT" of Uptown... (selling SLAVES...?). Hmmm... SO! HOW do we "follow up"...?

This is one of the reasons for my recent rant thread.....but I'm working on it. But for now some of this stuff has become dust in the wind, 404 server errors really creating some frustrations.

 

[bigscoop]

This all rings, in my opinion, of PRE-KGC activities. I suppose if we follow the money from the ST. LOUIS CORPORATION we will find THE bank in question that
continues to hold the "deposits" to this day. Seed money (loans) funding new corporations.
Let's call them (PRE-KGC) E.L.M. - Enlightened Leaders of Mericka , ... I've had to much to drink right now ... Gates

Yea, I wouldn't get too caught up in all of that KGC, Freemason, stuff, etc. Basically it's just a bunch of opportunist taking advantage of circumstances, i.e., the US taking advantage of the insurgents/smugglers and these folks taking advantage of the Galveston Island opportunity. Just the product of politics and business and the circumstances at hand, no fantastical KGC or Free Mason super structures or anything of that nature.

 

[bigscoop]

First, if one is to believe that the deposits made that match the Adam-Onis dates of business profits made in New Orleans and Galveston from this alleged Saint Louis Corporation, why involve a total stranger, Morriss, and why transport this gold, silver, and jewels to Bedford county Virginia?
Second, if this alleged Saint Louis Corporation was providing a cash cow to the Uptown Plantation, why is this money maker NEVER mentioned in any of these court cases?
Even then, financial disclosure would be required in this type of legal case.

I think some of your questions here actually serve to help explain the nature of the cash cow, the fact that there is no court disclosure. How do you go into court and start detailing your sources of illicit funds from a smuggling operation? "Oh, by the way, I want to tell the court about all of the smuggled merchandise, illegal slaves trade, and illegal under the table cash flow this place was providing me, them, etc."
Probably the same reason why Morriss was confided and trusted with so much information about the family business as he certainly knew more then is detailed in the narration. And as for Bedford Co? Even today I still question this "physical" aspect of those details.

 

[bigscoop]

I'll tell something else that bothers me about the narration, and in particular, the total of the two alleged deposits.


If we take the going rate of $1 a pound during our slave markets, which is what my research suggest the price was at these markets, and we sell 200 slaves at a median of 150lbs each at a single sale then we end up $30'000, and this isn't counting the sell of all the other smuggled merchandise, ships, etc. Now this went on for at least four years with multiple sales in multiple locations so it appears to me that the total of those two deposits is a little lite, actually quite lite. So personally, I think the Beale narration is just testimony of one such leg and that there very easily could have been as many as four such legs.

 

[franklin]

I'll tell something else that bothers me about the narration, and in particular, the total of the two alleged deposits.


If we take the going rate of $1 a pound during our slave markets, which is what my research suggest the price was at these markets, and we sell 200 slaves at a median of 150lbs each at a single sale then we end up $30'000, and this isn't counting the sell of all the other smuggled merchandise, ships, etc. Now this went on for at least four years with multiple sales in multiple locations so it appears to me that the total of those two deposits is a little lite, actually quite lite. So personally, I think the Beale narration is just testimony of one such leg and that there very easily could have been as many as four such legs.

Yes there is a lot of history out there and we can not check under each and every bale of straw that something is hidden under without a link to the Beale Papers. What has any of your last 100 to 200 posts said anything about a link to the Beale Papers. Speculation and endless searching is not the answer that we are looking for, you said you had documented proof to link all of this to the Beale Papers, well where is the links. We all know about slave trades, pirates, pay outs for treaties and for personal under hand work but none of this has anything to do with the Beale Treasure without a clear-cut link or connection. And I am sorry to say you have made no connection what so ever. Just a bunch of maybe this or maybe that and this could have happened or that could have happened. We need something nailed down there is a storm coming.

 

[bigscoop]

Yes there is a lot of history out there and we can not check under each and every bale of straw that something is hidden under without a link to the Beale Papers. What has any of your last 100 to 200 posts said anything about a link to the Beale Papers. Speculation and endless searching is not the answer that we are looking for, you said you had documented proof to link all of this to the Beale Papers, well where is the links. We all know about slave trades, pirates, pay outs for treaties and for personal under hand work but none of this has anything to do with the Beale Treasure without a clear-cut link or connection. And I am sorry to say you have made no connection what so ever. Just a bunch of maybe this or maybe that and this could have happened or that could have happened. We need something nailed down there is a storm coming.

No, actually, most everything I've posted in this thread did happen. A great deal of it takes very little follow up to discover. As for the Corp info, I'm still trying to figure out how I can get at that info again.....not scholarly enough, I guess?

But again, if you really take the time to read through all of this, you'll find direct references to that Corp and some of its activities here: (I've already posted this link but a lot to absorb and follow up on here)
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/USN/1817/18171215Amelia.html

 

[bigscoop]

And this is for ECS....in regards to the memoirs, the Lincoln letter, etc. Once you get into things you're going to discover that many papers weren't penned in the hand of the sender, this being very common, we even see this today in the form of biographies, etc. Per example, there exist record where someone other then Laffite tended to some of this, one example is that of a man named Rousselin who took care of some of Laffite's paperwork while he was away or when he was too busy to tend to it himself. This is all documented. And as for those memoirs, as I have told you before, doesn't matter who's hand actually penned them as long as that information is accurate, which thus far, what we have been able to follow up on appears to be. So I wouldn't be too quick in passing judgment as some of those in the past have been, a lot they didn't take into account and a lot of personal interest in the outcome of their opinions. My suggestion to you is that you read them and then follow up on what you can before you jump on board ships that may not be sailing under enough wind. "Read, research, and then form your own opinion instead of quoting everybody else."

 

[ECS]

Are you referring to John Laflin's Lafitte memoirs that have been judged as fake forgeries along with his other forged papers of historical Americans?
Even if some of the information is "accurate", as there have been many books on Lafitte where this "accurate" information was probably obtained, any information from Laflin's work is fruit from the poisoned tree.
Bigscoop, you and I have had this discussion many times over, and Laflin's work does contain events attributed to Lafitte, long after Lafitte's death.