Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

[bigscoop]

Not exactly. But there is more then "one party" here making up the entire, "party". There is Beale's several friends, that's one party, or the controlling or main party, and then there is the signed, or if you wish, the "hired party". It's very complicated but I'm going to send you a link to some info that will help to explain how all of this came about.

 

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[Kentucky Kache]

Not exactly. But there is more then "one party" here making up the entire, "party". There is Beale's several friends, that's one party, or the controlling or main party, and then there is the signed, or if you wish, the "hired party". It's very complicated but I'm going to send you a link to some info that will help to explain how all of this came about.

Thank you.

 

[bigscoop]

“The whole party were to accompany me for the first five hundred miles, when all but “TEN” would return, these latter to remain with me to the end.”

”It was finally decided that it should be sent to Virginia under my charge, and securely buried in a cave near Buford’s tavern, in the county of Bedford, which all of us had “VISITED”.

“Stopping at Buford’s, where we remained for a month,… etc, etc,….We soon located a better place, and to this the treasure was safely transferred.”

Question: What did the party do with the 1014lbs of gold, and 3812lbs of silver (total of first deposit) they had on hand at Buford’s until they found a suitable place to deposit it? That’s roughly 480lbs of silver and gold per man.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

 

[Kentucky Kache]

“The whole party were to accompany me for the first five hundred miles, when all but “TEN” would return, these latter to remain with me to the end.”

”It was finally decided that it should be sent to Virginia under my charge, and securely buried in a cave near Buford’s tavern, in the county of Bedford, which all of us had “VISITED”.

“Stopping at Buford’s, where we remained for a month,… etc, etc,….We soon located a better place, and to this the treasure was safely transferred.”

Question: What did the party do with the 1014lbs of gold, and 3812lbs of silver (total of first deposit) they had on hand at Buford’s until they found a suitable place to deposit it? That’s roughly 480lbs of silver and gold per man.

The farmers had been using the cave for a place to store sweet potatoes, and other things, so it's not likely they could have hid it there. Good question.
That they all had visited the cave seemed strange to me, last time I read the story. Just something about that seems odd.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

GOOD questions, carry on. According to local historical research (via documented history)... BUFORDS was in TWO "sections"; where Thom. J. Beale "overnited" in the tavern had about 2-4 rooms; the rest of the men slept in the barn... guarding the stash, to be buried later. It was about 10-20 men in November of 1819, or so; 10 were left behind in Colorado, doing MORE "mining". NOT sure if snow was on the ground, or if it was FROZEN cold in VIRGINIA. LATER. Thom. J. Beale supposedly went on to Lynchburg, VIRGINIA, staying at the WASHINGTON, according to BEALE PAPERS... staying until about March, 1820 or so. BTW, the BARN at BUFORDS was ACROSS today's Rt. 460 in MONTVALE; BUFORDS, then... was a HUGE "plot of land". MY "sense" is that the 10-20 men went home in Upper Goose Valley, until March, 1820 or so. Then they went back WEST for the 2nd stash, which they would return to bury it with the 1st "load" in a better prepared place (vault) supervised by Robert Morriss. To me, it sounds like a "dried up, old well, or "root cellar".

 

[bigscoop]

Here's a couple of thoughts for you consider:

1) "Ten" men who had only previously "visited" Bedford county.
2) During the era it was still quite common for mixed currencies to be listed in British pounds, as in value, not weight. In C2 we are told "silver" & "gold"....not "gold ore", and "silver ore", etc.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

 

[bigscoop]

The party arrived in Santa Fe at the first of December, 1817…….and wintered there until “Early in March…..”…of 1818…when some of the party had grown restless and had set out to do some hunting for what turned out to be “a month or more” (this would bring us to at least the middle of April, 1818)….and then two in the party returned to inform Beale of their rich find. Now certainly it took Beale at least a couple of weeks to gather supplies and reach this party 300 – 350 miles to the northwest, so this brings us to at least the first of May, 1818 and then…….

“Under this arrangement the work progressed favorably for eighteen months or more…..”

This time frame would bring us to November, 1819, and the party, according to Beale’s own timeline stated in his letter of January 4th, 1822, was still in the mountains 300 – 350 miles northwest of Santa Fe. So how could the first deposit have been made in November, 1819? "It couldn't have been."

Then, in the very next paragraph in this same letter, "Matters went on like this until the summer of 1819...."

Uhhhhh.......

 

[Rebel - KGC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_ciphers Read "The Deciphered message"... "click" on images to ENLARGE.

 

[bigscoop]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_ciphers Read "The Deciphered message"... "click" on images to ENLARGE.

Read those TJB letters very closely, I suspect you'll eventually find other details in them that couldn't possibly be.

 

[bigscoop]

A big tell-tell here?
From the letter dated January 4th, 1822;
"In such an event, you will please visit the place of deposit and secure its contents. ect., etc....."

Question: How was Morriss suppose to secure 8021lbs of gold & silver?" (Total of both deposits.)

 

[Rebel - KGC]

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Robert MORRISS probably had "trusted" men to assist him "do that", if necessary.

 

[bigscoop]

Robert MORRISS probably had "trusted" men to assist him "do that", if necessary.

That's possible. But how was Morriss suppose to divide more then 8000lbs of "ore" or "raw silver and gold" into 31 "equal" shares? That would be more about 260lbs per share.

There comes a time when we have to look at the details before us, "all the details", and we have to ask ourselves if those details could have even been possible. Clearly, a lot of the details in the Beale Pamphlet could not have been possible, especially the weights offered in regards to the deposits. But if they were given in British pounds, as in value, then suddenly it becomes quite possible. It becomes possible for ten men & Beale to have transported it in secret without too much effort or attention the last 1000 miles of their journey. It becomes possible for them to have found a suitable recepticle for this smaller treasure without risking too much attention. And it becomes possible for Morriss to have done what was expected of him at the end of the ten year term.

 

[bigscoop]

bs, if you find so much wrong with the Beale Treasure story to believe why not just leave it along. It is like religion you have to have faith or leave it alone.

Look, read those letters again and again, the pamphlet and cihpers as well, and allow yourself to look for those things that possibly could not have been. Could be you have information that is more vital then you realize. "Pick it apart." Finding the inaccuracies is often more important then confirming the accuracies. But if you're taking the entire tale just as it was written, "it would have been impossible!" But that's not to say there is no measure of truth in the tale.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

bs, you ARE stuck in the BEALE PAPERS! "Read the letters", etc. Franklin is MORE correct than YOU are, as I have seen SIMILAR info; it helps A LOT to be a "local" (Lynchburg/Bedford County, VIRGINIA), as we have access to SUBSEQUENT info that YOU cannot get from the BEALE PAPERS. DYK, that there are MANY smelters in Botetourt County, NORTH of Upper Goose Creek Valley and the Blue Ridge Parkway? Even Roanoke County has some, WEST of the BRP, near the old Fincastle, VIRGINIA Turnpike... which is NOW, a BIKE trail, that goes down to BUFORDS "area", near Camp Virginia JayCee. PERSONALLY, I think YOU are just FISHING!

 

[bigscoop]

bs, you ARE stuck in the BEALE PAPERS! "Read the letters", etc. Franklin is MORE correct than YOU are, as I have seen SIMILAR info; it helps A LOT to be a "local" (Lynchburg/Bedford County, VIRGINIA), as we have access to SUBSEQUENT info that YOU cannot get from the BEALE PAPERS. DYK, that there are MANY smelters in Botetourt County, NORTH of Upper Goose Creek Valley and the Blue Ridge Parkway? Even Roanoke County has some, WEST of the BRP, near the old Fincastle, VIRGINIA Turnpike... which is NOW, a BIKE trail, that goes down to BUFORDS "area", near Camp Virginia JayCee. PERSONALLY, I think YOU are just FISHING!

So now you're suggesting they brought all this raw silver and gold back and that they smelted it in, or near, Bedford County without anybody noticing? Ok, I guess. If that's what you must believe, then believe it.

 

[bigscoop]

bs, you ARE stuck in the BEALE PAPERS! "Read the letters", etc. Franklin is MORE correct than YOU are, as I have seen SIMILAR info; it helps A LOT to be a "local" (Lynchburg/Bedford County, VIRGINIA), as we have access to SUBSEQUENT info that YOU cannot get from the BEALE PAPERS. DYK, that there are MANY smelters in Botetourt County, NORTH of Upper Goose Creek Valley and the Blue Ridge Parkway? Even Roanoke County has some, WEST of the BRP, near the old Fincastle, VIRGINIA Turnpike... which is NOW, a BIKE trail, that goes down to BUFORDS "area", near Camp Virginia JayCee. PERSONALLY, I think YOU are just FISHING!

A good defense attorney and your suspects are walking because all you have is speculation and circumstantial evidence. My suspect on the other hand, he's going to be lucky if they don't sentence him to life without parole.

 

[Rebel - KGC]