desertmoons
Bronze Member
- Apr 16, 2008
- 1,067
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Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
so big! nice shot.
so big! nice shot.
Basic signs and symbols you have found
- Thread starter Old Dog
- Start date
OP
OP
Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #922
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
Thanks guys,
I was kind of surprised myself,
we have both driven past this guy and have never seen it before.
But at the right time of day it jumps out and grabs you.
The real comical part is when we both saw it and the brakes were applied,
Here I am standing just outside the truck and traffic is comming and I just need to take a couple more shots of this...
Everybody waited for me though,
Sure am glad. The darn thing would have been gone for another day if they haddn't.
desertmoons said:
Thanks guys,
I was kind of surprised myself,
we have both driven past this guy and have never seen it before.
But at the right time of day it jumps out and grabs you.
The real comical part is when we both saw it and the brakes were applied,
Here I am standing just outside the truck and traffic is comming and I just need to take a couple more shots of this...
Everybody waited for me though,
Sure am glad. The darn thing would have been gone for another day if they haddn't.
OP
OP
Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #923
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
This gorgeous red rock canyon we are in here has a mega presence of Spanish signs.
They send you from side to side of the canyon as demonstrated by the sight through this hoyo.
the laugh is getting your exercise going from one to the next,
as there is another canyon in the center of this one,
made entirely of Blackrock (granite) that has been polished by eons of rushing water.
Very slick and very dangerous. Makes chasing these signs just a little more fun.
Makes the partner think we have to be nuts.
This gorgeous red rock canyon we are in here has a mega presence of Spanish signs.
They send you from side to side of the canyon as demonstrated by the sight through this hoyo.
the laugh is getting your exercise going from one to the next,
as there is another canyon in the center of this one,
made entirely of Blackrock (granite) that has been polished by eons of rushing water.
Very slick and very dangerous. Makes chasing these signs just a little more fun.
Makes the partner think we have to be nuts.
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Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #924
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
I left this sit all day hoping someone would notice something more than just the scenery.
The bottom trail (we followed for a while)
is a clearly marked one. The classic face looking in the direction of travel.
Here is a seriously chiseled face pointing the way to the next campsite .
I left this sit all day hoping someone would notice something more than just the scenery.
The bottom trail (we followed for a while)
is a clearly marked one. The classic face looking in the direction of travel.
Here is a seriously chiseled face pointing the way to the next campsite .
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Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #926
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
There is ancient stuff as well in there,
But so far I have only found one turtle in these canyons that could actually be confirmed as a turtle.
The ancient things are absolutely huge in comparrison to what the Spanish left.
here is one of the sentinel type monuments that stand at the abutments of the canyon walls.
they are at every prominent turn or canyon entrance.
There is ancient stuff as well in there,
But so far I have only found one turtle in these canyons that could actually be confirmed as a turtle.
The ancient things are absolutely huge in comparrison to what the Spanish left.
here is one of the sentinel type monuments that stand at the abutments of the canyon walls.
they are at every prominent turn or canyon entrance.
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Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #927
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
We can subscribe to the million monkey theory about this stuff or we can look logically at what is here.
nature could have done one or two of these...
But what are the odds of as many as a couple hundred all done in the same style and the same fashion?
I am inclined to believe that human intervention isn't out of the question.
We can subscribe to the million monkey theory about this stuff or we can look logically at what is here.
nature could have done one or two of these...
But what are the odds of as many as a couple hundred all done in the same style and the same fashion?
I am inclined to believe that human intervention isn't out of the question.
desertmoons
Bronze Member
- Apr 16, 2008
- 1,067
- 168
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
Well Thom
I see a lot more.Whether it is artificial is the question. I can not help but think fondly of jacko..bless his soul.
What a lovely spot..no doubt that pool was often full at the time., Now perhaps mostly filled with sediment of the centuries.
The monuments... who knows....but i am leaning toward your conclusion! I recently read a paper on mta dna halotypes that indicated there were two major migrations into the americas. One somewhere 30,000 -35000 years ago and the other the more well known 11,000-15000 years ago.
If something earlier than that..well populations do get wiped out now and then.
Well Thom
I see a lot more.Whether it is artificial is the question. I can not help but think fondly of jacko..bless his soul.
What a lovely spot..no doubt that pool was often full at the time., Now perhaps mostly filled with sediment of the centuries.
The monuments... who knows....but i am leaning toward your conclusion! I recently read a paper on mta dna halotypes that indicated there were two major migrations into the americas. One somewhere 30,000 -35000 years ago and the other the more well known 11,000-15000 years ago.
If something earlier than that..well populations do get wiped out now and then.
architecad
Hero Member
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Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #932
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
It appears to be a 72.
I know that doesn't help much,
but there is no indicator nearby to say whether it is a date frome some highschool party or something else.
Best to take as many pictures as possible as clearly as possible and see what else is there.
It appears to be a 72.
I know that doesn't help much,
but there is no indicator nearby to say whether it is a date frome some highschool party or something else.
Best to take as many pictures as possible as clearly as possible and see what else is there.
OP
OP
Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #933
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
Kim,
Believe it or not, Mother Nature cleans her house every Spring.
The melt off and high water clean these pools out.
they are polished out of the granite and are very smooth... fast water cleans them up fast.
nothing more than cold water and a handful of gravel in the bottom.
The upper surfaces of the granite are smooth and slick as well so if you don't want to get wet
stay away from the edge some of these pools are as deep as 3 to 4 feet.
desertmoons said:
Kim,
Believe it or not, Mother Nature cleans her house every Spring.
The melt off and high water clean these pools out.
they are polished out of the granite and are very smooth... fast water cleans them up fast.
nothing more than cold water and a handful of gravel in the bottom.
The upper surfaces of the granite are smooth and slick as well so if you don't want to get wet
stay away from the edge some of these pools are as deep as 3 to 4 feet.
okey dokey
Full Member
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
OD
You said, "The ancient things are absolutely huge in comparrison to what the Spanish left." A light bulb just went off concerning the one-eyed man. Thanks again. Only trouble is, now I have another variable/possibility to factor in.
okey dokey
OD
You said, "The ancient things are absolutely huge in comparrison to what the Spanish left." A light bulb just went off concerning the one-eyed man. Thanks again. Only trouble is, now I have another variable/possibility to factor in.
okey dokey
OP
OP
Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #935
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
okey dokey ,
The ancient things I was referring to in my post
are the ones evident in the canyon we are working in.
The most evident ones we have found elsewhere have been mostly Verry large,
but in some cases they are smaller on the same scale as Spanish stuff,
and have been in most of those cases hard to discern from the Spanish.
Our thought on the matter is that the Spanish seem to be following these ancient markers.
Where we find a couple we also find some that have Spanish reworking.
In almost every case.
okey dokey ,
The ancient things I was referring to in my post
are the ones evident in the canyon we are working in.
The most evident ones we have found elsewhere have been mostly Verry large,
but in some cases they are smaller on the same scale as Spanish stuff,
and have been in most of those cases hard to discern from the Spanish.
Our thought on the matter is that the Spanish seem to be following these ancient markers.
Where we find a couple we also find some that have Spanish reworking.
In almost every case.
rangler
Bronze Member
- Jul 12, 2004
- 1,320
- 201
- Detector(s) used
- for solutions to the jesuit code -email pics to: [email protected]
;[email protected] locations needed! oro bro!
- Primary Interest:
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Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
Old Dog
Earlier in my understanding of the ancient monuments, I had thought that they
were part of the Jesuits work, and that they were built large and bodacious because
they wanted the Kings Men to find the caches and mines with a doubt or failure,
And that later the relationship lapsed to the point that the Jesuits scaled down
the monuments, for one, they were getting better at building them and two, they
could say that they were following the letter of the law, although not the spirit of
the law./
However since the research on the Templars showed them to have the standby's
of the detective principles. ie, "motive, opportunity and means" with or without
artifacts,names or smoking guns, we can safely think the Templars were the
Ancients Ones!
This makes sense from a couple of angles. King Solomon was the first codemaker
and the Templars were after their dig at the Temple, his followers. With Ophir being
in the USA and perhaps it was codewords for whatever place that gold was found
for extracting and shipping to him.
Add to that the Pope himself, sanctioned the Templar for a while, used them for
whatever his own purpose was, then after the Templars where discredited, the Pope
sanctions the second wave of prospectors and miners in the Jesuits, who merely
had the task of cold trailing the Templars and decoding the Solomon Code!
This explains the difference of the style of monument building AND the reworking
of some monuments by the Spanish/Jesuits.
I may not be 100% correct but - my solution does offer 100% of the answers to the
questions, until someone asks better questions,
I rest my case
rangler
Old Dog
Earlier in my understanding of the ancient monuments, I had thought that they
were part of the Jesuits work, and that they were built large and bodacious because
they wanted the Kings Men to find the caches and mines with a doubt or failure,
And that later the relationship lapsed to the point that the Jesuits scaled down
the monuments, for one, they were getting better at building them and two, they
could say that they were following the letter of the law, although not the spirit of
the law./
However since the research on the Templars showed them to have the standby's
of the detective principles. ie, "motive, opportunity and means" with or without
artifacts,names or smoking guns, we can safely think the Templars were the
Ancients Ones!
This makes sense from a couple of angles. King Solomon was the first codemaker
and the Templars were after their dig at the Temple, his followers. With Ophir being
in the USA and perhaps it was codewords for whatever place that gold was found
for extracting and shipping to him.
Add to that the Pope himself, sanctioned the Templar for a while, used them for
whatever his own purpose was, then after the Templars where discredited, the Pope
sanctions the second wave of prospectors and miners in the Jesuits, who merely
had the task of cold trailing the Templars and decoding the Solomon Code!
This explains the difference of the style of monument building AND the reworking
of some monuments by the Spanish/Jesuits.
I may not be 100% correct but - my solution does offer 100% of the answers to the
questions, until someone asks better questions,
I rest my case
rangler
OP
OP
Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #937
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
I will go so far as to repeat what I have said elsewhere,
I believe these signs are as old as 3 to 4 thousand years.
If there is any Templar involvement I have yet to find evidence of this.
But there is a Spanish influence that is undeniable,
It is manifest especially where these particular types of ancient signs are prevalent.
My partner is frustrated with me about things like this,
I feel, I am dealing with things in stone. Period.
If there is evidence of the Templar's in stone, I will believe it when I see it.
Not before.
But I said that about the Phoenicians too.
LOL
I will go so far as to repeat what I have said elsewhere,
I believe these signs are as old as 3 to 4 thousand years.
If there is any Templar involvement I have yet to find evidence of this.
But there is a Spanish influence that is undeniable,
It is manifest especially where these particular types of ancient signs are prevalent.
My partner is frustrated with me about things like this,
I feel, I am dealing with things in stone. Period.
If there is evidence of the Templar's in stone, I will believe it when I see it.
Not before.
But I said that about the Phoenicians too.
LOL
desertmoons
Bronze Member
- Apr 16, 2008
- 1,067
- 168
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
Well here is something unique (in own experience only one i've found) but likely a basic symbol.
Now sure what to make of it really. I guess that may be a duck I suppose... but.....whats the purpose of the arrow. I have some suspicions......
Well here is something unique (in own experience only one i've found) but likely a basic symbol.
Now sure what to make of it really. I guess that may be a duck I suppose... but.....whats the purpose of the arrow. I have some suspicions......
jrsherman
Sr. Member
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
All I can say is. . . .WoW!
The knowledge you all have displayed here has kept me up all night reading. I truly wish that I could see allll the posts, not just the ones shown. The ones that I really wish I could see are DSTY's and Bob's, as the good explanations for the now-missing pictures just killed me!
This is just truly an amazing thread, and I plan on following it from here on out. OD, thank you so very much for starting this thread, and maintaining it with new info for so long!
I do have a little information I could throw in for JudyH a few pages back. As a life-long Ozarks born and raised boy, I have learned several Spanish stories from my Grandfather and others. The ones I know are not the ones in the treasure books either. There was much Spanish activity in our limestone filled country, and a lot of that information can be read in books yet today.
My Grandfather explored a cave in the early 1960's on Table Rock Lake, just a fledgling lake then, and I will relate his harrowing ordeal as best my memory will allow. The cave itself most likely is a death trap, but hundreds of years made it worse. The entrance was on the flat top of a bluff, and went straight down for about 8 or 10 feet to a platform. When my grandfather and his caving buddy got to the platform, they realized it wasn't a shelf and was actually flat sided logs that were placed in notches in the wall to make a false, or not, floor. From there, it was a clay bank down 15-20 foot to the next platform. Here's where the bad part came into play, they both went down to the next platform, with nothing but the rope back up to the 1st. They explored slightly, but dead ending in a watery shaft leading deeper. They then started the part that scared both of them out of caving for awhile. Getting back to the rope, they attempted to climb up the clay embankment. The clay, being wet, yielded nothing but slippery resistance to them, and it was nothing but pointless exertion for over an hour. Eventually, one of them was able to crawl back up to the platform slowly, and pull the other up.
As far as knowing the cave was Spanish, my Grandfather had seen some of the same signs in treasure magazines of the times in the walls of the cave. He combined this with the fact that the log platform had developed over a 1/4 inch of stone from the dirt caking and hardening, did some research and found that cave stone was estimated to "grow" at around a 1/16th of an inch over 100 years, estimating an age of 400 years prior to his being there.
The thing he thought of later, though, was that the cave was completely designed to funnel water down in, but what about the initial platform? All the things you all have posted have made me ask the same question, was the first platform disguising the entrance with a covered wall?
Unfortunately, we will most likely never know. His climbing partner thought it would be a funny joke to buy some gold flakes, litter it in the clay, and lead a few businessmen infrom St. Louis. They quickly grabbed up the land, concealed the entrance, and kept the place guarded.
So after my big long story, I'd just like to say thanks again for all the realizations you have dawned upon me, and so many things I have seen and overlooked while living at home, and now I am not at home with no idea when or if I'll be able to return.
Until then I will sit here soaking up as much of this history as I possibly can, with the hope that I too will be able to apply some of this knowledge!
I give this thread
All I can say is. . . .WoW!
The knowledge you all have displayed here has kept me up all night reading. I truly wish that I could see allll the posts, not just the ones shown. The ones that I really wish I could see are DSTY's and Bob's, as the good explanations for the now-missing pictures just killed me!
This is just truly an amazing thread, and I plan on following it from here on out. OD, thank you so very much for starting this thread, and maintaining it with new info for so long!
I do have a little information I could throw in for JudyH a few pages back. As a life-long Ozarks born and raised boy, I have learned several Spanish stories from my Grandfather and others. The ones I know are not the ones in the treasure books either. There was much Spanish activity in our limestone filled country, and a lot of that information can be read in books yet today.
My Grandfather explored a cave in the early 1960's on Table Rock Lake, just a fledgling lake then, and I will relate his harrowing ordeal as best my memory will allow. The cave itself most likely is a death trap, but hundreds of years made it worse. The entrance was on the flat top of a bluff, and went straight down for about 8 or 10 feet to a platform. When my grandfather and his caving buddy got to the platform, they realized it wasn't a shelf and was actually flat sided logs that were placed in notches in the wall to make a false, or not, floor. From there, it was a clay bank down 15-20 foot to the next platform. Here's where the bad part came into play, they both went down to the next platform, with nothing but the rope back up to the 1st. They explored slightly, but dead ending in a watery shaft leading deeper. They then started the part that scared both of them out of caving for awhile. Getting back to the rope, they attempted to climb up the clay embankment. The clay, being wet, yielded nothing but slippery resistance to them, and it was nothing but pointless exertion for over an hour. Eventually, one of them was able to crawl back up to the platform slowly, and pull the other up.
As far as knowing the cave was Spanish, my Grandfather had seen some of the same signs in treasure magazines of the times in the walls of the cave. He combined this with the fact that the log platform had developed over a 1/4 inch of stone from the dirt caking and hardening, did some research and found that cave stone was estimated to "grow" at around a 1/16th of an inch over 100 years, estimating an age of 400 years prior to his being there.
The thing he thought of later, though, was that the cave was completely designed to funnel water down in, but what about the initial platform? All the things you all have posted have made me ask the same question, was the first platform disguising the entrance with a covered wall?
Unfortunately, we will most likely never know. His climbing partner thought it would be a funny joke to buy some gold flakes, litter it in the clay, and lead a few businessmen infrom St. Louis. They quickly grabbed up the land, concealed the entrance, and kept the place guarded.
So after my big long story, I'd just like to say thanks again for all the realizations you have dawned upon me, and so many things I have seen and overlooked while living at home, and now I am not at home with no idea when or if I'll be able to return.
Until then I will sit here soaking up as much of this history as I possibly can, with the hope that I too will be able to apply some of this knowledge!
I give this thread
OP
OP
Old Dog
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #940
Re: Basic Spanish signs and symbols you have found
JR,
Thanks for those kind words.
And welcome to marks and signs.
If you have questions feel free to ask, I can't always guarantee you will like the answers. LOL
but they will be honestly answered.
Sounds to me as if your Grandfather learned a very hard lesson.
Whether Spanish or other, the caves that populate our country have a treacherous reputation.
I do wish your Grandfather could have done a bit more exploring and documentation of that cave.
But I am glad it ended well for him and his partner.
It almost sounds like there was a water trap involved somehow.
That would be fun to document even today.
I have only heard of a very few of these and information on them is precious.
Thanks for sharing your Pop's story and hopefully you will be able to add a good one of your own to it someday.
Thom
JR,
Thanks for those kind words.
And welcome to marks and signs.
If you have questions feel free to ask, I can't always guarantee you will like the answers. LOL
but they will be honestly answered.
Sounds to me as if your Grandfather learned a very hard lesson.
Whether Spanish or other, the caves that populate our country have a treacherous reputation.
I do wish your Grandfather could have done a bit more exploring and documentation of that cave.
But I am glad it ended well for him and his partner.
It almost sounds like there was a water trap involved somehow.
That would be fun to document even today.
I have only heard of a very few of these and information on them is precious.
Thanks for sharing your Pop's story and hopefully you will be able to add a good one of your own to it someday.
Thom
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