Atlantis

[marticus]

Ladies ( Dit, Unicorn ) and gentlemen



We now know that Atlantis was subducted by colliding plates, but what could explain the sudden movement ? this brings up the Interesting following facts,

The last ice age was terminated some 11,000 plus years ago, Planet's X orbit was calculated as being near Earth about that time, could it have caused a change in the Earths' polar orbit i.e. did the attraction cause the earth 's polar orbit to dencrease thus exposing the northern latitudes to more of the Sun's rays?

We now know that this axis is very wobbly in it's primary axis with a secondary minor axis. In other words one is very slow. measured in thousands of years, the other in only hundreds of years.

Could the passage of Planet X have had enough effect on it's passage near to Earth, on it's close pass, with the earth's orbit some 11,000 years ago ?

Planet X orbit has been calculated as being approximately 3,800 years, We can establish it's last pass by the Bible, Joshua's reference to the sun standing still for three days,. the sky reddish the Red sea incident, and at that time the sun rose in the West while it now rises in the East. All explainable by a near pass by Planet X's, passing near enough for it's gravitation to effect the earth, it's axis , and it's rotation .

Naturally this attraction would have an effect on the plates It is not due for some years on this next pass.

Just a random thought

Planet x. Thats an interesting idea. I too beleive that planet x exists. Then we need to also look at the annuaki.
So if such an idea of the two planets coming close together. It could trigger a massive shift in the enviroment. Could explain the sudden end of the ice age. Which then could also go with the large structure in antartica. Antartica may have once sat further north with a moderate climate. Thrust south as some fossils found with food still in stomaches like snap frozen.
Could the atlantians relate to the annuaki ?

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[Oroblanco]

Ladies ( Dit, Unicorn ) and gentlemen



We now know that Atlantis was subducted by colliding plates, but what could explain the sudden movement ? this brings up the Interesting following facts,

The last ice age was terminated some 11,000 plus years ago, Planet's X orbit was calculated as being near Earth about that time, could it have caused a change in the Earths' polar orbit i.e. did the attraction cause the earth 's polar orbit to dencrease thus exposing the northern latitudes to more of the Sun's rays?

We now know that this axis is very wobbly in it's primary axis with a secondary minor axis. In other words one is very slow. measured in thousands of years, the other in only hundreds of years.

Could the passage of Planet X have had enough effect on it's passage near to Earth, on it's close pass, with the earth's orbit some 11,000 years ago ?

Planet X orbit has been calculated as being approximately 3,800 years, We can establish it's last pass by the Bible, Joshua's reference to the sun standing still for three days,. the sky reddish the Red sea incident, and at that time the sun rose in the West while it now rises in the East. All explainable by a near pass by Planet X's, passing near enough for it's gravitation to effect the earth, it's axis , and it's rotation .

Naturally this attraction would have an effect on the plates It is not due for some years on this next pass.

Just a random thought

I must respectfully disagree with the two statements that begin "we now know". We do not know that Atlantis was subducted by colliding plates; in fact the documentary sources only indicate a combination of "earthquakes and floods", no indication that any subduction was involved. Also, we do not know that the Earth's axis is "very wobbly" in its primary axis, only that it DOES wobble, at fairly regular intervals over relatively vast stretches of time. It is certainly possible that the axis may move, especially when you consider the effect of melting of billions of tons of ice, which could theoretically destabilize the rotation of the planet, and conversely, when large masses of ice form due to an Ice age, creating an imbalance in the planet that could affect the axis of rotation. So not a total disagreement, mainly with your choice of terms here. I would say POSSIBLE, rather than the sweeping "we KNOW" etc.

Please do continue,

 

[marticus]

I must respectfully disagree with the two statements that begin "we now know". We do not know that Atlantis was subducted by colliding plates; in fact the documentary sources only indicate a combination of "earthquakes and floods", no indication that any subduction was involved. Also, we do not know that the Earth's axis is "very wobbly" in its primary axis, only that it DOES wobble, at fairly regular intervals over relatively vast stretches of time. It is certainly possible that the axis may move, especially when you consider the effect of melting of billions of tons of ice, which could theoretically destabilize the rotation of the planet, and conversely, when large masses of ice form due to an Ice age, creating an imbalance in the planet that could affect the axis of rotation. So not a total disagreement, mainly with your choice of terms here. I would say POSSIBLE, rather than the sweeping "we KNOW" etc.

Please do continue,

Yes that is true. We dont know. No one really does. Same as the location of atlantis. Everything is theory.

Im going to find a copy of platos version and add it to the convo. Pointing out possible clues and things we can identify with. Unless someone else has a copy they can put up.


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[marticus]

In one version of events Plato did not hear the original myth of Atlantis, but instead it was told to Solon 300 years prior, who heard it from Egyptian priests who read it from existing texts. Plato heard it from Critias, who is related to Solon, who said it was a story passed down for 3 generations prior to reaching him (according to RA Freund 2012)

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[marticus]

Another interesting quote.
Could also reference the Americas

For it is related in our records how once upon a time your State stayed the course of a mighty host, which, starting from a distant point in the Atlantic ocean, was insolently advancing to attack the whole of Europe, and Asia to boot. For the ocean there was at that time navigable; for in front of the mouth which you Greeks call, as you say, 'the pillars of Heracles,' there lay an island which was larger than Libya and Asia together; and it was possible for the travelers of that time to cross from it to the other islands, and from the islands to the whole of the continent over against them which encompasses that veritable ocean. For all that we have here, lying within the mouth of which we speak, is evidently a haven having a narrow entrance; but that yonder is a real ocean, and the land surrounding it may most rightly be called, in the fullest and truest sense, a continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there existed a confederation of kings, of great and marvelous power, which held sway over all the island, and over many other islands also and parts of the continent.

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[sdcfia]

Yes that is true. We dont know. No one really does. Same as the location of atlantis. Everything is theory.

Im going to find a copy of platos version and add it to the convo. Pointing out possible clues and things we can identify with. Unless someone else has a copy they can put up.


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1400 posts on this thread alone, not to mention other more comprehensive websites dedicated to the subject. Plato's story has been sliced and diced down to mush with no consensus among interested parties. Is it an historical account? Is it a tall tale? Is it a moral lesson? Is it an amalgamation of history and myth? Ad infinitum. Hopefully, you'll attract some new blood here with fresh opinions.

 

[marticus]

1400 posts on this thread alone, not to mention other more comprehensive websites dedicated to the subject. Plato's story has been sliced and diced down to mush with no consensus among interested parties. Is it an historical account? Is it a tall tale? Is it a moral lesson? Is it an amalgamation of history and myth? Ad infinitum. Hopefully, you'll attract some new blood here with fresh opinions.

Yes i would like to see that. Ive only just stumbled across this topic. So i havnt gone through all the previous 140 pages. But im hoping that since we are a few years along since this topic started. New information has come to light. It might open some new doors of possiblity.


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[marticus]

[h=1]Plato's Atlantis[/h]
[h=2]Excerpt from "Timaeus"
by Plato[/h]c.428 - c.347 BCE

from "The Antediluvian World" by Ignatius Donnelly

[FONT=&quot]"But in addition to the gods whom you have mentioned, I would specially invoke Mnemosyne; for all the important part of what I have to tell is dependent on her favor, and if I can recollect and recite enough of what was said by the priests, and brought hither by Solon, I doubt not that I shall satisfy the requirements of this theatre. To that task, then, I will at once address myself.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"Let me begin by observing, first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between all those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and those who dwelt within them: this war I am now to describe.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Of the combatants on the one side the city of Athens was reported to have been the ruler, and to have directed the contest; the combatants on the other side were led by the kings of the islands of Atlantis, which, as I was saying, once had an extent greater than that of Libya and Asia; and, when afterward sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to the ocean.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The progress of the history will unfold the various tribes of barbarians and Hellenes which then existed, as they successively appear on the scene; but I must begin by describing, first of all, the Athenians as they were in that day, and their enemies who fought with them; and I shall have to tell of the power and form of government of both of them. Let us give the precedence to Athens. . . .(omitted?)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years, for that is the number of years which have elapsed since the time of which I am speaking; and in all the ages and changes of things there has never been any sediment of the earth flowing down from the mountains, as in other places, which is worth speaking of.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It has always been carried round in a circle, and disappeared in the depths below. The consequence is that, in comparison of what then was, there are remaining in small islets only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be called, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the country being left. . . .[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"And next, if I have not forgotten what I heard when I was a child, I will impart to you the character and origin of their adversaries (the Atlanteans); for friends should not keep their stories to themselves, but have them in common. Yet, before proceeding farther in the narrative, I ought to warn you that you must not be surprised if you should bear Hellenic names given to foreigners.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I will tell you the reason of this: Solon, who was intending to use the tale for his poem, made an investigation into the meaning of the names, and found that the early Egyptians, in writing them down, had translated them into their own language, and he recovered the meaning of the several names and retranslated them, and copied them out again in our language. My great-grandfather, Dropidas, had the original writing, which is still in my possession, and was carefully studied by me when I was a child. Therefore, if you hear names such as are used in this country, you must not be surprised, for I have told you the reason of them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"The tale, which was of great length, began as follows: I have before remarked, in speaking of the allotments of the gods, that they distributed the whole earth into portions differing in extent, and made themselves temples and sacrifices. And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island which I will proceed to describe.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]On the side toward the sea, and in the center of the whole island, there was a plain which is said to have been the fairest of all plains, and very fertile. Near the plain again, and also in the center of the island, at a distance of about fifty stadia (one stadia=606 feet), there was a mountain, not very high on any side.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In this mountain there dwelt one of the earth-born primeval men of that country, whose name was Evenor, and he had a wife named Leucippe, and they had an only daughter, who was named Cleito. The maiden was growing up to womanhood when her father and mother died.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Poseidon fell in love with her, and had intercourse with her; and, breaking the ground, enclosed the hill in which she dwelt all round, making alternate zones of sea and land, larger and smaller, encircling one another; there were two of land and three of water, which he turned as with a lathe out of the center of the island, equidistant every way, so that no man could get to the island, for ships and voyages were not yet heard of.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]He himself, as he was a god, found no difficulty in making special arrangements for the center island, bringing two streams of water under the earth, which he caused to ascend as springs, one of warm water and the other of cold, and making every variety of food to spring up abundantly in the earth.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]He also begat and brought up five pairs of male children, dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions: he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men and a large territory.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And he named them all: the eldest, who was king, he named Atlas, and from him the whole island and the ocean received the name of Atlantic. To his twin-brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island toward the Pillars of Heracles, as far as the country which is still called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Of the second pair of twins, he called one Ampheres and the other Evaemon. To the third pair of twins he gave the name Mneseus to the elder, and Autochthon to the one who followed him. Of the fourth pair of twins he called the elder Elasippus and the younger Mestor, And of the fifth pair be gave to the elder the name of Azaes, and to the younger Diaprepes.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All these and their descendants were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has been already said, they held sway in the other direction over the country within the Pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia (Italy).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Now Atlas had a numerous and honorable family, and his eldest branch always retained the kingdom, which the eldest son handed on to his eldest for many generations; and they had such an amount of wealth as was never before possessed by kings and potentates, and is not likely ever to be again, and they were furnished with everything which they could have, both in city and country. For, because of the greatness of their empire, many things were brought to them from foreign countries, and the island itself provided much of what was required by them for the uses of life.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the first place, they dug out of the earth whatever was to be found there, mineral as well as metal, and that which is now only a name, and was then something more than a name -- [/FONT]orichalcum -- was dug out of the earth in many parts of the island, and, with the exception of gold, was esteemed the most precious of metals among the men of those days.

There was an abundance of wood for carpenters' work, and sufficient maintenance for tame and wild animals. Moreover, there were a great number of elephants in the island, and there was provision for animals of every kind, both for those which live in lakes and marshes and rivers, and also for those which live in mountains and on plains, and therefore for the animal which is the largest and most voracious of them.

Also, whatever fragrant things there are in the earth, whether roots, or herbage, or woods, or distilling drops of flowers or fruits, grew and thrived in that land; and again, the cultivated fruit of the earth, both the dry edible fruit and other species of food, which we call by the general name of legumes, and the fruits having a hard rind, affording drinks, and meats, and ointments, and good store of chestnuts and the like, which may be used to play with, and are fruits which spoil with keeping--and the pleasant kinds of dessert which console us after dinner, when we are full and tired of eating--all these that sacred island lying beneath the sun brought forth fair and wondrous in infinite abundance.

All these things they received from the earth, and they employed themselves in constructing their temples, and palaces, and harbors, and docks; and they arranged the whole country in the following manner: First of all they bridged over the zones of sea which surrounded the ancient metropolis, and made a passage into and out of the royal palace; they began to build the palace and then the habitation of the god and of their ancestors. This they continued to ornament in successive generations, every king surpassing the one who came before him to the utmost of his power, until they made the building a marvel to behold for size and for beauty.

And, beginning from the sea, they dug a canal three hundred feet in width and one hundred feet in depth, and fifty stadia in length, which they carried through to the outermost zone, making a passage from the sea up to this, which became a harbor, and leaving an opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress. Moreover, they divided the zones of land which parted the zones of sea, constructing bridges of such a width as would leave a passage for a single trireme to pass out of one into another, and roofed them over; and there was a way underneath for the ships, for the banks of the zones were raised considerably above the water.

Now the largest of the zones into which a passage was cut from the sea was three stadia in breadth, and the zone of land which came next of equal breadth; but the next two, as well the zone of water as of land, were two stadia, and the one which surrounded the central island was a stadium only in width. The island in which the palace was situated had a diameter of five stadia.

This, and the zones and the bridge, which was the sixth part of a stadium in width, they surrounded by a stone wall, on either side placing towers, and gates on the bridges where the sea passed in. The stone which was used in the work they quarried from underneath the center island and from underneath the zones, on the outer as well as the inner side. One kind of stone was white, another black, and a third red; and, as they quarried, they at the same time hollowed out docks double within, having roofs formed out of the native rock. Some of their buildings were simple, but in others they put together different stones, which they intermingled for the sake of ornament, to be a natural source of delight.

The entire circuit of the wall which went round the outermost one they covered with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citadel flashed with the red light of orichalcum.

The palaces in the interior of the citadel were constructed in this wise: In the center was a holy temple dedicated to Cleito and Poseidon, which remained inaccessible, and was surrounded by an enclosure of gold; this was the spot in which they originally begat the race of the ten princes, and thither they annually brought the fruits of the earth in their season from all the ten portions, and performed sacrifices to each of them. Here, too, was Poiseidon's own temple, of a stadium in length and half a stadium in width, and of a proportionate height, having a sort of barbaric splendor.

All the outside of the temple, with the exception of the pinnacles, they covered with silver, and the pinnacles with gold. In the interior of the temple the roof was of ivory, adorned everywhere with gold and silver and orichalcum; all the other parts of the walls and pillars and floor they lined with orichalcum. In the temple they placed statues of gold: there was the god himself standing in a chariot--the charioteer of six winged horses--and of such a size that he touched the roof of the building with his head; around him there were a hundred Nereids riding on dolphins, for such was thought to be the number of them in that day.

There were also in the interior of the temple other images which had been dedicated by private individuals. And around the temple on the outside were placed statues of gold of all the ten kings and of their wives; and there were many other great offerings, both of kings and of private individuals, coming both from the city itself and the foreign cities over which they held sway. There was an altar, too, which in size and workmanship corresponded to the rest of the work, and there were palaces in like manner which answered to the greatness of the kingdom and the glory of the temple.

"In the next place, they used fountains both of cold and hot springs; these were very abundant, and both kinds wonderfully adapted to use by reason of the sweetness and excellence of their waters. They constructed buildings about them, and planted suitable trees; also cisterns, some open to the heaven, other which they roofed over, to be used in winter as warm baths, there were the king's baths, and the baths of private persons, which were kept apart; also separate baths for women, and others again for horses and cattle, and to them they gave as much adornment as was suitable for them.

The water which ran off they carried, some to the grove of Poseidon, where were growing all manner of trees of wonderful height and beauty, owing to the excellence of the soil; the remainder was conveyed by aqueducts which passed over the bridges to the outer circles: and there were many temples built and dedicated to many gods; also gardens and places of exercise, some for men, and some set apart for horses, in both of the two islands formed by the zones; and in the centre of the larger of the two there was a race-course of a stadium in width, and in length allowed to extend all round the island, for horses to race in.

Also there were guard-houses at intervals for the body-guard, the more trusted of whom had their duties appointed to them in the lesser zone, which was nearer the Acropolis; while the most trusted of all had houses given them within the citadel, and about the persons of the kings. The docks were full of triremes and naval stores, and all things were quite ready for use.

Enough of the plan of the royal palace. Crossing the outer harbors, which were three in number, you would come to a wall which began at the sea and went all round: this was everywhere distant fifty stadia from the largest zone and harbor, and enclosed the whole, meeting at the mouth of the channel toward the sea. The entire area was densely crowded with habitations; and the canal and the largest of the harbors were full of vessels and merchants coming from all parts, who, from their numbers, kept up a multitudinous sound of human voices and din of all sorts night and day.


I have repeated his descriptions of the city and the parts about the ancient palace nearly as he gave them, and now I must endeavor to describe the nature and arrangement of the rest of the country. The whole country was described as being very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended toward the sea; it was smooth and even, but of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, and going up the country from the sea through the centre of the island two thousand stadia; the whole region of the island lies toward the south, and is sheltered from the north.

The surrounding mountains he celebrated for their number and size and beauty, in which they exceeded all that are now to be seen anywhere; having in them also many wealthy inhabited villages, and rivers and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and wood of various sorts, abundant for every kind of work.

I will now describe the plain, which had been cultivated during many ages by many generations of kings. It was rectangular, and for the most part straight and oblong; and what it wanted of the straight line followed the line of the circular ditch.

The depth and width and length of this ditch were incredible and gave the impression that such a work, in addition to so many other works, could hardly have been wrought by the hand of man. But I must say what I have heard. It was excavated to the depth of a hundred feet, and its breadth was a stadium everywhere; it was carried round the whole of the plain, and was ten thousand stadia in length.

It received the streams which came down from the mountains, and winding round the plain, and touching the city at various points, was there let off into the sea. From above, likewise, straight canals of a hundred feet in width were cut in the plain, and again let off into the ditch, toward the sea; these canals were at intervals of a hundred stadia, and by them they brought down the wood from the mountains to the city, and conveyed the fruits of the earth in ships, cutting transverse passages from one canal into another, and to the city.

Twice in the year they gathered the fruits of the earth--in winter having the benefit of the rains, and in summer introducing the water of the canals. As to the population, each of the lots in the plain had an appointed chief of men who were fit for military service, and the size of the lot was to be a square of ten stadia each way, and the total number of all the lots was sixty thousand.

"And of the inhabitants of the mountains and of the rest of the country there was also a vast multitude having leaders, to whom they were assigned according to their dwellings and villages. The leader was required to furnish for the war the sixth portion of a war-chariot, so as to make up a total of ten thousand chariots; also two horses and riders upon them, and a light chariot without a seat, accompanied by a fighting man on foot carrying a small shield, and having a charioteer mounted to guide the horses; also, be was bound to furnish two heavy-armed men, two archers, two slingers, three stone-shooters, and three javelin men, who were skirmishers, and four sailors to make up a complement of twelve hundred ships.

Such was the order of war in the royal city--that of the other nine governments was different in each of them, and would be wearisome to narrate. As to offices and honors, the following was the arrangement from the first: Each of the ten kings, in his own division and in his own city, had the absolute control of the citizens, and in many cases of the laws, punishing and slaying whomsoever be would.

"Now the relations of their governments to one another were regulated by the injunctions of Poseidon as the law had handed them down. These were inscribed by the first men on a column of orichalcum, which was situated in the middle of the island, at the temple of Poseidon, whither the people were gathered together every fifth and sixth years alternately, thus giving equal honor to the odd and to the even number.

And when they were gathered together they consulted about public affairs, and inquired if any one had transgressed in anything, and passed judgment on him accordingly--and before they passed judgment they gave their pledges to one another in this wise:

There were bulls who had the range of the temple of Poseidon; and the ten who were left alone in the temple, after they had offered prayers to the gods that they might take the sacrifices which were acceptable to them, hunted the bulls without weapons, but with staves and nooses; and the bull which they caught they led up to the column; the victim was then struck on the head by them, and slain over the sacred inscription.

Now on the column, besides the law, there was inscribed an oath invoking mighty curses on the disobedient. When, therefore, after offering sacrifice according to their customs, they had burnt the limbs of the bull, they mingled a cup and cast in a clot of blood for each of them; the rest of the victim they took to the fire, after having made a purification of the column all round.

Then they drew from the cup in golden vessels, and, pouring a libation on the fire, they swore that they would judge according to the laws on the column, and would punish any one who had previously transgressed, and that for the future they would not, if they could help, transgress any of the inscriptions, and would not command or obey any ruler who commanded them to act otherwise than according to the laws of their father Poseidon.

This was the prayer which each of them offered up for himself and for his family, at the same time drinking, and dedicating the vessel in the temple of the god; and, after spending some necessary time at supper, when darkness came on and the fire about the sacrifice was cool, all of them put on most beautiful azure robes, and, sitting on the ground at night near the embers of the sacrifices on which they had sworn, and extinguishing all the fire about the temple, they received and gave judgment, if any of them had any accusation to bring against any one; and, when they had given judgment, at daybreak they wrote down their sentences on a golden tablet, and deposited them as memorials with their robes.

There were many special laws which the several kings had inscribed about the temples, but the most important was the following: That they were not to take up arms against one another, and they were all to come to the rescue if any one in any city attempted to over throw the royal house. Like their ancestors, they were to deliberate in common about war and other matters, giving the supremacy to the family of Atlas; and the king was not to have the power of life and death over any of his kinsmen, unless he had the assent of the majority of the ten kings.

"Such was the vast power which the god settled in the lost island of Atlantis; and this he afterward directed against our land on the following pretext, as traditions tell: For many generations, as long as the divine nature lasted in them, they were obedient to the laws, and well-affectioned toward the gods, who were their kinsmen; for they possessed true and in every way great spirits, practicing gentleness and wisdom in the various chances of life, and in their intercourse with one another.

They despised everything but virtue, not caring for their present state of life, and thinking lightly on the possession of gold and other property, which seemed only a burden to them; neither were they intoxicated by luxury; nor did wealth deprive them of their self-control; but they were sober, and saw clearly that all these goods are increased by virtuous friendship with one another, and that by excessive zeal for them, and honor of them, the good of them is lost, and friendship perishes with them.

"By such reflections, and by the continuance in them of a divine nature, all that which we have described waxed and increased in them; but when this divine portion began to fade away in them, and became diluted too often, and with too much of the mortal admixture, and the human nature got the upper-hand, then, they being unable to bear their fortune, became unseemly.

To him who had an eye to see, they began to appear base, and had lost the fairest of their precious gifts; but to those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they still appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were filled with unrighteous avarice and power.

Zeus, the god of gods, who rules with law, and is able to see into such things, perceiving that an honorable race was in a most wretched state, and wanting to inflict punishment on them, that they might be chastened and improved, collected all the gods into his most holy habitation, which, being placed in the centre of the world, sees all things that partake of generation. And when he had called them together he spake as follows:"

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Hola, another point on Planet X, Hairy Mamoths have been found with buttercups still undigested in their stomachs and they were found to have died of suffication some years BC, only explainable by the passage of planet X, Her gravitational pull was sufficient to pull the earth's insolating air to one side of the earth thus allowing the cold of space to quick freeze and to sufficate these animals on the opposite side of the world.. There are reports of human remains also have been found. Fascinating how things are coming together.

























*+-+.

 

[marticus]

[h=1]Plato's Atlantis[/h]

[h=3]from "The Antediluvian World"
by Ignatius Donnelly
and from "Critias" by Plato[/h]

Part I - Chapter 2
-- PLATO'S HISTORY OF ATLANTIS --

[FONT=&quot]Plato has preserved for us the history of Atlantis. If our views are correct, it is one of the most valuable records which have come down to us from antiquity.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Plato lived 400 years before the birth of Christ. His ancestor, Solon, was the great law-giver of Athens 600 years before the Christian era. Solon visited Egypt. Plutarch says, "Solon attempted in verse a large description, or rather fabulous account of the Atlantic Island, which he had learned from the wise men of Sais, and which particularly concerned the Athenians; but by reason of his age, not want of leisure (as Plato would have it), he was apprehensive the work would be too much for him, and therefore did not go through with it. These verses are a proof that business was not the hinderance:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"'I grow in learning as I grow in age.'[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And again:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"'Wine, wit, and beauty still their charms bestow, Light all the shades of life, and cheer us as we go.'[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"Plato, ambitious to cultivate and adorn the subject of the Atlantic Island, as a delightful spot in some fair field unoccupied, to which also he had some claim by reason of his being related to Solon, laid out magnificent courts and enclosures, and erected a grand entrance to it, such as no other story, fable, or Poem ever had. But, as he began it late, he ended his life before the work, so that the more the reader is delighted with the part that is written, the more regret he has to find it unfinished."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There can be no question that Solon visited Egypt. The causes of his departure from Athens, for a period of ten years, are fully explained by Plutarch. He dwelt, he tells us,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"On the Canopian shore, by Nile's deep mouth."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There be conversed upon points of philosophy and history with the most learned of the Egyptian priests. He was a man of extraordinary force and penetration of mind, as his laws and his sayings, which have been preserved to us, testify. There is no improbability in the statement that he commenced in verse a history and description of Atlantis, which he left unfinished at his death; and it requires no great stretch of the imagination to believe that this manuscript reached the hands of his successor and descendant, Plato; a scholar, thinker, and historian like himself, and, like himself, one of the profoundest minds of the ancient world.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Egyptian priest had said to Solon, "You have no antiquity of history, and no history of antiquity;" and Solon doubtless realized fully the vast importance of a record which carried human history back, not only thousands of years before the era of Greek civilization, but many thousands of years before even the establishment of the kingdom of Egypt; and he was anxious to preserve for his half-civilized countrymen this inestimable record of the past.[/FONT]

[h=2]Excerpt from "Critias"
by Plato[/h]c.428 - c.347 BCE

[FONT=&quot]Critias: Then listen, Socrates, to a strange tale, which is, however, certainly true, as Solon, who was the wisest of the seven sages, declared. He was a relative and great friend of my great-grandfather, Dropidas, as he himself says in several of his poems; and Dropidas told Critias, my grandfather, who remembered, and told us, that there were of old great and marvelous actions of the Athenians, which have passed into oblivion through time and the destruction of the human race and one in particular, which was the greatest of them all, the recital of which will be a suitable testimony of our gratitude to you....[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Socrates: Very good; and what is this ancient famous action of which Critias spoke, not as a mere legend, but as a veritable action of the Athenian State, which Solon recounted![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Critias: I will tell an old-world story which I heard from an aged man; for Critias (the elder) was, as he said, at that time nearly ninety years of age, and I was about ten years of age. Now the day was that day of the Apaturia which is called the registration of youth; at which, according to custom, our parents gave prizes for recitations, and the poems of several poets were recited by us boys, and many of us sung the poems of Solon, which were new at the time.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]One of our tribe, either because this was his real opinion, or because he thought that he would please Critias, said that, in his judgment, Solon was not only the wisest of men but the noblest of poets. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The old man, I well remember, brightened up at this, and said, smiling: "Yes, Amynander, if Solon had only, like other poets, made poetry the business of his life, and had completed the tale which he brought with him from Egypt, and had not been compelled, by reason of the factions and troubles which he found stirring in this country when he came home, to attend to other matters, in my opinion be would have been as famous as Homer, or Hesiod, or any poet."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"And what was that poem about, Critias?" said the person who addressed him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"About the greatest action which the Athenians ever did, and which ought to have been most famous, but which, through the lapse of time and the destruction of the actors, has not come down to us."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"Tell us," said the other, "the whole story, and how and from whom Solon heard this veritable tradition."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]He replied: "At the head of the Egyptian Delta, where the river Nile divides, there is a certain district which is called the district of Sais, and the great city of the district is also called Sais, and is the city from which Amasis the king was sprung. And the citizens have a deity who is their foundress: she is called in the Egyptian tongue Neith, which is asserted by them to be the same whom the Hellenes called Athene (Athena).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Now, the citizens of this city are great lovers of the Athenians, and say that they are in some way related to them. Thither came Solon, who was received by them with great honor; and he asked the priests, who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]On one occasion, when he was drawing them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell about the most ancient things in our part of the world--about Phoroneus, who is called 'the first,' and about Niobe; and, after the Deluge, to tell of the lives of Deucalion and Pyrrha; and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and attempted to reckon how many years old were the events of which he was speaking, and to give the dates. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thereupon, one of the priests, who was of very great age; said, 'O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are but children, and there is never an old man who is an Hellene.'[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Solon, hearing this, said, 'What do you mean?'[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]'I mean to say,' he replied, 'that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you the reason of this: there have been, and there will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is a story which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Phaethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now, this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving around the earth and in the heavens, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth recurring at long intervals of time: when this happens, those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the sea-shore; and from this calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing savior, saves and delivers us.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, among you herdsmen and shepherds on the mountains are the survivors, whereas those of you who live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea; but in this country neither at that time nor at any other does the water come from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below, for which reason the things preserved here are said to be the oldest.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer sun does not prevent, the human race is always increasing at times, and at other times diminishing in numbers. And whatever happened either in your country or in ours, or in any other region of which we are informed--if any action which is noble or great, or in any other way remarkable has taken place, all that has been written down of old, and is preserved in our temples; whereas you and other nations are just being provided with letters and the other things which States require; and then, at the usual period, the stream from heaven descends like a pestilence, and leaves only those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and thus you have to begin all over again as children, and know nothing of what happened in ancient times, either among us or among yourselves.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As for those genealogies of yours which you have recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children; for, in the first place, you remember one deluge only, whereas there were many of them; and, in the next place, you do not know that there dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, of whom you and your whole city are but a seed or remnant. And this was unknown to you, because for many generations the survivors of that destruction died and made no sign.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For there was a time, Solon, before that great deluge of all, when the city which now is Athens was first in war, and was preeminent for the excellence of her laws, and is said to have performed the noblest deeds, and to have had the fairest constitution of any of which tradition tells, under the face of heaven.'[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Solon marveled at this, and earnestly requested the priest to inform him exactly and in order about these former citizens.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]'You are welcome to hear about them, Solon,' said the priest, 'both for your own sake and for that of the city; and, above all, for the sake of the goddess who is the common patron and protector and educator of both our cities. She founded your city a thousand years before ours, receiving from the Earth and Hephaestus the seed of your race, and then she founded ours, the constitution of which is set down in our sacred registers as 8000 years old.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As touching the citizens of 9000 years ago, I will briefly inform you of their laws and of the noblest of their actions; and the exact particulars of the whole we will hereafter go through at our leisure in the sacred registers themselves. If you compare these very laws with your own, you will find that many of ours are the counterpart of yours, as they were in the olden time.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the first place, there is the caste of priests, which is separated from all the others; next there are the artificers, who exercise their several crafts by themselves, and without admixture of any other; and also there is the class of shepherds and that of hunters, as well as that of husbandmen; and you will observe, too, that the warriors in Egypt are separated from all the other classes, and are commanded by the law only to engage in war; moreover, the weapons with which they are equipped are shields and spears, and this the goddess taught first among you, and then in Asiatic countries, and we among the Asiatics first adopted.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"'Then, as to wisdom, do you observe what care the law took from the very first, searching out and comprehending the whole order of things down to prophecy and medicine, the latter with a view to health; and out of these divine elements drawing what was needful for human life, and adding every sort of knowledge which was connected with them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All this order and arrangement the goddess first imparted to you when establishing your city; and she chose the spot of earth in which you were born, because she saw that the happy temperament of the seasons in that land would produce the wisest of men. Wherefore the goddess, who was a lover both of war and of wisdom, selected, and first of all settled that spot which was the most likely to produce men likest herself. And there you dwelt, having such laws as these and still better ones, and excelled all mankind in all virtue, as became the children and disciples of the gods.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your State in our histories; but one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valor; for these histories tell of a mighty power which was aggressing wantonly against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which you call the Columns of Heracles (the Strait of Gibraltar, known as the Pillars of Hercules): the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from the islands you might pass through the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbor, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a continent.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Now, in the island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire, which had rule over the whole island and several others, as well as over parts of the continent; and, besides these, they subjected the parts of Libya within the Columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia (Italy).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The vast power thus gathered into one, endeavored to subdue at one blow our country and yours, and the whole of the land which was within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind; for she was the first in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjected, and freely liberated all the others who dwelt within the limits of Heracles.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But afterward there occurred violent earthquakes and floods, and in a single day and night of rain all your warlike men in a body sunk into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared, and was sunk beneath the sea.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And that is the reason why the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is such a quantity of shallow mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.' [end excerpt][/FONT]

 

[marticus]

So the more im reading into these, im starting to get a feeling all the clues point to the americas. Even the elephant part.

Recent Survival Of The Elephant In The Americas

Mayan 'elephant motif'
Mayan "elephant motif".
Elephants were supposed to have disappeared from the America about 10,000 years ago as the Ice Ages waned. This date is another of those "consensus" scientific facts that no one dares challenge if he or she wishes to get published or win research grants. Although this subject remains "closed off" in normal scientific intercourse, there remain tantalizing hints that elephants roamed the Americas until very recently - perhaps even a few hundred years ago!

The following snippets are culled from two articles written by G. Carter, Texas A&M, now emeritus, but always heretical:

Numerous folk memories of the elephamt were retained by American Indians.
A mastadon was killed, cooked, and eaten by humans in Ecuador circa 1500 BC.
Indians told Thomas Jefferson that elephants could still be seen in the region of the Great Lakes.
In Florida, a cache of extinct animals, including elephants, was carbon-dated at 2000 BP.
Elephant heads are prominent in art and sculpture from Mexico, Central American, and northern South America.
(Carter, George F.; "A Note on the Elephant in America," and "The Mammoth in American Epigraphy," Epigraphic Society, Occasional Publications, 18:90 and 18:213, 1989.)

 

[Oroblanco]

So the more im reading into these, im starting to get a feeling all the clues point to the americas. Even the elephant part.

Recent Survival Of The Elephant In The Americas

Mayan 'elephant motif'
Mayan "elephant motif".
Elephants were supposed to have disappeared from the America about 10,000 years ago as the Ice Ages waned. This date is another of those "consensus" scientific facts that no one dares challenge if he or she wishes to get published or win research grants. Although this subject remains "closed off" in normal scientific intercourse, there remain tantalizing hints that elephants roamed the Americas until very recently - perhaps even a few hundred years ago!

The following snippets are culled from two articles written by G. Carter, Texas A&M, now emeritus, but always heretical:

Numerous folk memories of the elephamt were retained by American Indians.
A mastadon was killed, cooked, and eaten by humans in Ecuador circa 1500 BC.
Indians told Thomas Jefferson that elephants could still be seen in the region of the Great Lakes.
In Florida, a cache of extinct animals, including elephants, was carbon-dated at 2000 BP.
Elephant heads are prominent in art and sculpture from Mexico, Central American, and northern South America.
(Carter, George F.; "A Note on the Elephant in America," and "The Mammoth in American Epigraphy," Epigraphic Society, Occasional Publications, 18:90 and 18:213, 1989.)

I would only point out that 10,000 years ago for the disappearance of elephants from the Americas, would not make it impossible to be Atlantis. Remember Solon was told that the Atlantis events unfolded some 9000 years before HIS time, which was circa 500 BC. In other words right around 11,500 years ago. The elephants vanishing from the Americas may well coincide with the loss of Atlantis.

On the other hand, finding elephants in images and symbology among Mayans and some other Amerindian cultures, very probably points to this being solid evidence of much more recent contact between those peoples and Africa. Voyages from North Africa were sailing to the Americas at least by 400 BC, the same time period when the Mayan culture was flowering. Plutarch even records a "return" voyage from the Americas to North Africa (Carthage) around 100 BC by Americans, so it was quite possible for people to have actually seen the animals and recorded what they witnessed, rather than having to find surviving populations of elephants or a memory from the Ice Age. See Plutarch, Moralia XII, "On the Face of the Moon", also describes the northern route to America from the Mediterranean, from documents he found in the ruins of Carthage.

Please do continue;

 

[marticus]

Im also looking into the metals. All the metals can also be found in the americas.
Thats right in the full accounts i shared on the last page. Thats the exact quote from plato. 9000 yrs prior to solon

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[marticus]

We also have the 3 stone types mentioned. White. Black and red.
White could be sandstone or limestone.
Black possibly a black granite. I dont think slate would have worked.
As for red. Possibly an ironstone type or clay rock. Someone may know a better answer to that one

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[Rebel - KGC]

So now, we are looking at @ 500 BC/BCE date...?

 

[marticus]

No thats the date alot of people think was the time. But its clear. Plato himself even mentions 9000 years before solon. Who himself was about 300 years before plato. So if we are to go off platos own true account. The real date was around 10000 bce. Which also reflects to the end of the last ice age time frame

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[Rebel - KGC]

@10,000 bce...? Hmmm...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Glaciers from Ice Age...?

 

[marticus]

Snippet from my Post #1409
From platos writings

"Let me begin by observing, first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between all those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and those who dwelt within them: this war I am now to describe.

Of the combatants on the one side the city of Athens was reported to have been the ruler, and to have directed the contest; the combatants on the other side were led by the kings of the islands of Atlantis, which, as I was saying, once had an extent greater than that of Libya and Asia; and, when afterward sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to the ocean.

There are several references to thousands of years, and another reference of 9000 years of rain errosion.

another in #1411
'You are welcome to hear about them, Solon,' said the priest, 'both for your own sake and for that of the city; and, above all, for the sake of the goddess who is the common patron and protector and educator of both our cities. She founded your city a thousand years before ours, receiving from the Earth and Hephaestus the seed of your race, and then she founded ours, the constitution of which is set down in our sacred registers as 8000 years old.

As touching the citizens of 9000 years ago, I will briefly inform you of their laws and of the noblest of their actions; and the exact particulars of the whole we will hereafter go through at our leisure in the sacred registers themselves. If you compare these very laws with your own, you will find that many of ours are the counterpart of yours, as they were in the olden time.

So we have several references from that same time period in his very own writings, this can not be ignored and must be now taken into account

@10,000 bce...? Hmmm...[/QUOTE