Atlantis

[Rebel - KGC]

I have ALL those books... GREAT stuff! Read 'em when I was younger... was ready to go look for 'em (Lemuria & Atlantis). I was 12, and it was SUMMER; my dog, Tippy & I got as far as the Skyline Drive (aka Shenandoah National Park). Oh well, we tried... (going the WRONG way, didn't help); Heh!

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

l
Ladies, gentlemen, the talk by the Azetecs of visiting the home land and returning prob was in reference to the shallows off of the coast of Spain ,The actual home of the Aztecs (lost tribe)?) not Atlantis itself which was sunk Thousands of years earlier.

Incidentally, the submersion of Atlantis was a gradual process so it most likely did not create a Tsumi wave of any great proportion. It was a subduction process not a violent volcanic one

 

[cactusjumper]

l
Ladies, gentlemen, the talk by the Azetecs of visiting the home land and returning prob was in reference to the shallows off of the coast of Spain ,The actual home of the Aztecs (lost tribe)?) not Atlantis itself which was sunk Thousands of years earlier.

Incidentally, the submersion of Atlantis was a gradual process so it most likely did not create a Tsumi wave of any great proportion. It was a subduction process not a violent volcanic one

Don Jose,

I believe this is close to what Plato wrote:

"But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.

The writing that preceded this story of Atlantis was fictional.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Have to agree with Joe on that point Don Jose - at least according to Plato, Atlantis was destroyed very suddenly, in a single day and night. Earthquakes and floods can be highly destructive without any volcano being involved, for an example within our lifetimes we can point to what happened in Chile where several thousand square miles of land suddenly submerged beneath the sea, due to a massive earthquake and flooding that followed immediately after. Not very different from what Plato wrote.

As an aside, there have also been massive island shelf subsidences, in the Canaries and Azores. Geologists believe that the resulting tsunamis from these sudden catastrophic land submergences reached all the way across the Atlantic to re-shape the islands in the Caribbean, and strange to say but coincidentally at least one such shelf subsidence happened right in the time period when Atlantis is supposed to have been destroyed.

How would the prince mentioned in Montezuma's story have been able to return to Aztlan, if it sank and that were the reason why the Aztecs emigrated? What if the prince he was referring to, was a Celtiberian?

The Romans were aware of the existence of land across the Atlantic; here is an extract from the Life of Sertorius, by Plutarch quote:

But the wind subsided and he was borne along to certain scattered and waterless islands, where he spent the night; then, setting out from there, and passing through the strait of Cadiz, he kept the outer coast of Spain on the right and landed a little above the mouths of the river Baetis, which empties into the Atlantic sea and has given its name to the adjacent parts of Spain.

2 Here he fell in with some sailors who had recently come back from the Atlantic Islands. These are two in number, separated by a very narrow strait; they are •ten thousand furlongs distant from Africa, and are called the Islands of the Blest. They enjoy moderate rains at long intervals, and winds which for the most part are soft and precipitate dews, so that the islands not only have a rich soil which is excellent for plowing and planting, but also produce a natural fruit that is plentiful and wholesome enough to feed, without toil or trouble, a leisured folk. 3 Moreover, an air that is salubrious, owing to the climate and the moderate changes in the seasons, prevails on the islands. For the north and east winds which blow out from our part of the world plunge into fathomless space, and, owing to the distance, dissipate themselves and lose their power before they reach the islands; while the south and west winds that envelope the islands sometimes bring in their train soft and intermittent showers, but for the most part cool them with moist breezes and gently nourish the soil. Therefore a firm belief has made its way, even to the Barbarians, that here is the Elysian Field and the abode of the blessed, of which Homer sang.

Unfortunately for history, the Roman general Sertorius decided against sailing to these islands (probably in the Caribbean) or we would have had a very different history today - however the people he got that information from were Celtiberians, and these same people had been a part of the Carthaginian empire. They served as soldiers and sailors on Punic ships, and you can make a fairly strong case that Carthage certainly knew of the Americas. This means it is technically possible that the ancient ancestors that Montezuma was referring to were really Celtiberians (natives of the Iberian peninsula or Spain and Portugal today) which was also part of the argument used by Cortez to lay claim to the New World as his ancestors had been voyaging there. Aztlan may well have been a part of what is Spain or Portugal today, perhaps one of the islands on the coast?


Please do continue;

 

[Hitndahed]

Atlantis is not Antartica, too far for the ships that were available at the time, also does not conform to the directions. nor suggested size, way too large, nor does Santori, way too small -- joe

======================================
If you look at HApgoods crustal displacement theory it makes total sense.
Along with the "flood" myths that are from all over the world.
Even in the Alaska tundra and Siberia,,, there are not only the "quick flash" frozen mammoths, there is(in Alaska anyway) at several hundred feet deep, a jungle like layer of semi tropical plant matter.
I got that from a driller who saw it.
So what would enable the entire crust of the planet to shift,,, proposedly within hours?
Only an outside force,,,that was large enough and had the mass to influence the Earth's core and associated layers.
There IS a definite side of our long lost past history that we are NOT allowed to be aware of.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

MAYBE, it could happen, AGAIN... dunno.

 

[sdcfia]

The Romans were aware of the existence of land across the Atlantic; here is an extract from the Life of Sertorius, by Plutarch quote:
Here he fell in with some sailors who had recently come back from the Atlantic Islands. These are two in number, separated by a very narrow strait; they are [FONT=&quot]•[/FONT]ten thousand furlongs distant from Africa, and are called the Islands of the Blest.

Unfortunately for history, the Roman general Sertorius decided against sailing to these islands (probably in the Caribbean) or we would have had a very different history today -

Where I agree that Quetzalcoatl and his brethren likely traveled to the New World from the Mediterranean Basin, I would have to speculate that Sertorius's Blest Islands were more likely today's Azores, as they are almost exactly 10,000 furlongs (1,250 miles) west of Africa - at least from the Straights of Gibraltar, which is a likely point for the Romans to measure from..

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Typical subduction performance Joe/ my coffee ??

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Roy,the shallows off of the coast of Spain were all of the evidence left of Atlantis. They exist even today. This was the home at the end of their migration in th e old world. From there they migrated to the new world.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Rebel, it is happening today, but of a far less magnitude. As a matter of fact it was recorded in the bible where the earth slowed down, stood still for three days, then commenced rotating in the opposite direction We now have the Sun rising in the East instead of the West.

Tpical effect of a large celestial body passing close to earth. Be interesting if one could calculate the movment's of Planet X, which on a nearby pass, would create just such a happening. HM an approximate 11000 year orbit . must be due in another say 9000 years..

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel, it is happening today, but of a far less magnitude. As a matter of fact it was recorded in the bible where the earth slowed down, stood still for three days, then commenced rotating in the opposite direction We now have the Sun rising in the East instead of the West.

Tpical effect of a large celestial body passing close to earth. Be interesting if one could calculate the movment's of Planet X, which on a nearby pass, would create just such a happening. HM an approximate 11000 year orbit . must be due in another say 9000 years..

HA! NOT planning to be "around", then...

 

[Oroblanco]

Rebel, it is happening today, but of a far less magnitude. As a matter of fact it was recorded in the bible where the earth slowed down, stood still for three days, then commenced rotating in the opposite direction We now have the Sun rising in the East instead of the West.

Tpical effect of a large celestial body passing close to earth. Be interesting if one could calculate the movment's of Planet X, which on a nearby pass, would create just such a happening. HM an approximate 11000 year orbit . must be due in another say 9000 years..

Hmm well I have to respectfully disagree on a couple of points here. In reverse order for no reason, we do have a record in Herodotus, whom was citing Egyptian priests as his source, the Sun did change directions twice, rising and setting in the wrong directions, but no explanation of how long these events lasted, and Herodotus added that the priests told him that "no damage" occurred in Egypt when this happened. I am guessing or speculating but I would take it to mean that perhaps extensive damages did occur, but not in Egypt. And there is a very different way in which the Sun could appear to be rising and setting in the wrong cardinal points, namely by the Earth flopping over on its axis, so the north pole became the south and vice versa. This could have happened due to imbalances on the planet, possibly from masses of ice suddenly melting off and causing huge surges of meltwater (as are a matter of record) and can be duplicated with a spinning ball, if you unbalance that ball it can rotate end over end while still spinning. To someone standing on the planet that flips end over end, it would appear that the Sun had changed directions.

Now on the shallows off the coast of Spain, if you are referring to the sunken islands, then I would concur that these are very likely a part of the Atlantian empire which was supposed to be either ten or seven great islands, and an unknown number of small islands or islets. However the main island I am convinced is not off the coast of Spain at all. Think of what was meant by "opposite" when written by an ancient Greek; the Greek historian Polybius, in his translation of the voyage of Hanno, described the island of Kerne as being "opposite" the strait of Herakles, and the same distance from there as Carthage was. If you look on the map at where Kerne (Canary islands) is, it is not "opposite" the strait as we would call it today at all, yet to the Greeks this is how they described it. Perhaps the 'opposite' is in a nautical meaning, as a measure and not as if one were looking into a mirror as we think of opposite. At any rate I would agree that your shallows off Spain, if you are including the sunken islands like Spartel, almost certainly were a part of the Atlantian empire, hopefully some day someone will find solid evidence to seal the deal. But for the main island - and it is island, not continent, it should be quite large, perhaps the size of Honshu in Japan. This will not work or fit in that area off the coast of Spain at all.

Please do continue;

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ooro, the giant Caldera that formed Atlantis and the shallows on the coast of Spain are two different things, but of the same occurance. I admit that the Azores are a southern extenson o the Atlanteanempire but are not Atlantis it self

<--- not instant or burro juice, but genuine sock coffee.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Oro, the main island was in the center of the Caldera, with the smaller iIsands radiating out on the rim. Altogether they cover a large 'area,' but not a super Island or continent.


Ok,OK perhaps I should stick to Tayopa,'something that can be proven.,,,, stilllll tis fun to speculate .

 

[Not Peralta]

Oro, the main island was in the center of the Caldera, with the smaller iIsands radiating out on the rim. Altogether they cover a large 'area,' but bot a super Island or continent.


Ok,OK perhaps I should stick to Tayopa,'something that can be proven.,,,, stilllll tis fun to speculate .

NP

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Cheekin reb.,

 

[Salvor6]

Hello Don Jose. Boy you are real active today. I see you have over 14,000 posts!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Salvatore hi, physically there isn't much else I can do since I am at the computer on the Book anyhow.. hot coffee after your diving sesion ?

Sides do ye trust the misc ramarks ?

 

[Oroblanco]

Oro, the main island was in the center of the Caldera, with the smaller iIsands radiating out on the rim. Altogether they cover a large 'area,' but not a super Island or continent.


Ok,OK perhaps I should stick to Tayopa,'something that can be proven.,,,, stilllll tis fun to speculate .

Stick to Tayopa? Did someone switch your coffee out with el cheapo brand or what?

We may disagree on some points, and I DID admit and agree that your site, the area you refer to as a giant caldera off the coast of Spain, COULD be the site of the main island of Atlantis. It could make an island of some 80,000 square miles, if it were above sea level. I can not say that it is definitely NOT Atlantis. I am fairly convinced that a different place is Atlantis, but am not willing to make that information public property just yet. And your site, as intriguing as it is, has issues. For one, the depth of the sea there is extreme, in some places over 10,000 feet deep. It is possible that a land mass might sink that much due to earthquakes and floods, I can not say it is impossible, yet we have nothing to support that site as Atlantis in the form of anything dredged up from the bottom like a statue or section of stone column etc. I think the answer is in the way the term OPPOSITE has been used, and probably wrongly in translating the ancient Greek to English. Based on the location of Kerne, which the Greek Polybius described as "opposite" the strait of Herakles, I believe that word should have been some other term. The Greeks, and Romans as well, tended to think of the Mediterranean as "our" sea, and the great Atlantic outside the pillars was "outside" - or OPPOSITE, of the sea that they were quite familiar with. IF this is the case and I am convinced it is because of Kerne which is certainly not sitting right outside the straits but hundreds of miles to the south (although around the same distance as Carthage, just as Polybius translated Hanno's inscription in the temple of Eshmun) then the main island of Atlantis is simply somewhere OUTSIDE of the Mediterranean, although having control of islands making really an island empire. Example, from Plato (probably have posted this 100 times so apologies just wanted to refresh memories)

Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger**** than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia.

<from Timaeus, Jowett translation>
****"Larger" I have to take issue with as well, for the original Greek has the term 'Megos' which means 'greater' more literally, and we know from Plato's further explanation of the size of Atlantis that the island is not much more than 80,000 square miles. This is certainly NOT larger than Europe and Asia combined, but as an empire, stretching across the Atlantic and expanding inside the Mediterranean as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia, could very accurately be described as "GREATER" than the mostly tribal cultures living in Europe and Asia as of circa 10,000 BC.

There are sites in northwest Europe where some ancient, megalithic cultures existed, long before the pyramids, from Portugal to the Hebrides. Could these not be echoes, or reflections, perhaps some influence from an even older culture that was a sea power, which vanished and we know as Atlantis?

 

[cactusjumper]

May as well also get the Churchward material on the lost continent of Mu, the first book written in the 1920s, I believe. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=james+churchward

Steve,

It's pretty amazing how so many stories seem to meld into one possible source. I believe "The Continent Of Mu" shows a seven headed snake as the origination of the people of Mu. That snakes depiction looks much like the drawings of Chicomoztoc. That's only one item of many.

Take care,

Joe