Ancient Vaults, mines and crypts

[Quinoa]

I may make a few errors on "regurgitating" what I've researched in the past, it's been a while, like about 4 or 5 years since I've done extensive research.

I wasn't very knowledgeable back then and had to find the why's for myself. None of it made sense, until I really delved into their beliefs and customs. I may have to go back thru a lot of it myself. I just kind of take it for granted anymore , which isn't really right because nobody has the background in it. And nobody has applied it to field type settings. Which will only make true sense when you've put the time in. I have 10 years into it. I got into it all when things were available online, I didn't have to travel to ancient culture places, I didn't have to take classes, it was all right there at your finger tips to research. 20 years ago, there's nothing. It was all the next guy you knew, who knew something.


I used to walk all over these places when I was younger 25 - 30 years ago , guiding, hunting , hiking, backpacking, no clue of what I was walking right by. I never looked for it, never thought of it and why would I back then?

 

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[mdog]

Hi Quinoa. Here's a drawing of a mound group on the west bluff of the Mississippi River.

There's a line of eight mounds going east/west with the smallest mound on the west and gradually increasing in size to the mound on the east. The largest mound is about thirty feet across and about five feet high. The three biggest mounds, on the east end, are slightly offline, to the south, and could be from an excavation during the last part of the nineteenth century. The mounds have been dated to a couple thousand years ago during the Havana Hopewell period. If you stand on the west mound and sight east, the line is about 88 degrees. In that direction, about three miles away, the river bluff hugs the river bank. Twice a year, a few days before or after the spring and fall equinox, the Sun rises over the head of the bluff. I was thinking the site might have been setup as a calendar, but after reading your posts, maybe the mounds were pointing to a constellation. Any thoughts on this setup?

 

[Quinoa]

The Mounds aren't Egyptian. I'll have to look at it and contemplate a bit. I''m really beat from shoveling snow off roofs and patching over last 4 days. I still have people that depend on me for maintenance on rental property I own, you can't depend on contractors anymore, they are all fly by night to do anything in a timely manner.

 

[Quinoa]

One quik note, they liked certain days of the year for first sunlight / afternoon shadows. If it's due west , it might be a "Beltane" type site, which is Celtic, and May 1-5 is the time you would look at these in the afternoon, specifically about 5 pm pacific time, when the sun is due west in the sky.

 

[Quinoa]

So I'll talk about why the shadow usage next. There is a reason , and it is a belief system.

 

[mdog]

So I'll talk about why the shadow usage next. There is a reason , and it is a belief system.

Before you even post about the shadows, I have a question. Is there some kind of black paint or covering that would only appear when there is an increase in temperature and then disappear when the rock cools? Something like that could be used for some of the bigger images.

 

[Quinoa]

Before you even post about the shadows, I have a question. Is there some kind of black paint or covering that would only appear when there is an increase in temperature and then disappear when the rock cools? Something like that could be used for some of the bigger images.

Not that I know of or have seen. There's a lot of lichen "painted" stuff out there, I don't know who did it, but it's much smaller in scale to the huge shadow stuff. But sun/shadow stuff goes down to hand size as well.

 

[Quinoa]

So something I'll try to expand on , maybe refresh my own memory, is the shadow belief. So The Egyptians believed in the duality of things. The shadow had life. Dark/light, they liked opposites and the mirror of things. They believed a Pharaoh walked in the shadow of Gods. They believed the shadow you cast was life as the same as your own life, it was a part of existence. They believed when the Pharoah was put to rest , he could once again arise from the dead and play in the shadows on certain times of the year. The shadows are Godly, or rather exist for a place of the afterlife /rebirth to return to the living.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

So something I'll try to expand on , maybe refresh my own memory, is the shadow belief. So The Egyptians believed in the duality of things. The shadow had life. Dark/light, they liked opposites and the mirror of things. They believed a Pharaoh walked in the shadow of Gods. They believed the shadow you cast was life as the same as your own life, it was a part of existence. They believed when the Pharoah was put to rest , he could once again arise from the dead and play in the shadows on certain times of the year. The shadows are Godly, or rather exist for a place of the afterlife /rebirth to return to the living.

I'm just now finding your thread, Quinoa, and sorry to hear about your recent loss. Was a beautiful tribute you gave him. May his memory be a blessing.

You are posting some very interesting thoughts here, I've delved a little into this myself. Always interesting to hear other's ideas on the subject. Will be following to hear more.

Don't want to interrupt your thoughts, but I had a question for Mdog about his mention of paintings that appear and disappear with temperature changes.....

Before you even post about the shadows, I have a question. Is there some kind of black paint or covering that would only appear when there is an increase in temperature and then disappear when the rock cools? Something like that could be used for some of the bigger images.

Mdog, could you elaborate a little on that for me please?

I'm curious, when you have seen this occur was it the actual paintings themselves that changed color/lightened/darkened and made them appear, or did the surrounding stone it was found upon change color/lightened/darkened while the symbols remained the original stone color? I believe what you are describing is Thermochromatic properties, and I have a bit of research on that which may be of interest to you. It involves, of all things, the Amanita Muscaria mushroom and Vanadium.

Again, I don't want to disrupt this thread, you can just pm me if you'd rather.


Have a Good'un

 

[sdcfia]

Mdog, could you elaborate a little on that for me please?

I'm curious, when you have seen this occur was it the actual paintings themselves that changed color/lightened/darkened and made them appear, or did the surrounding stone it was found upon change color/lightened/darkened while the symbols remained the original stone color? I believe what you are describing is Thermochromatic properties, and I have a bit of research on that which may be of interest to you. It involves, of all things, the Amanita Muscaria mushroom and Vanadium.

That's interesting - sounds like a take-off on the old disappearing ink trick. How does it work with your concoction? It sounds like a difficult process to get right re correct temperature of the rock to reveal the message.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

That's interesting - sounds like a take-off on the old disappearing ink trick. How does it work with your concoction? It sounds like a difficult process to get right re correct temperature of the rock to reveal the message.

No need for difficult concoctions, there are three species of Amanita Muscarias that contain a natural Vanadium compound, called Amavadin.

Amanitas have been used since ancient times for religious and divination purposes since at least 4000BC and the use has been observed on every continent. Used both as an intoxicant and as a base for polychromatic cave paintings or petroglyphs dating as far back as the Paleolithic period. I believe Mdog is aware of ceremonial practices of the Ojibwa and Ahnishinuabeg Indians in cave paintings of this nature in the Lake Michigan area.

Mixed with color compounds it gives the paint a polychromatic or heat changing color. Ancient polychromatic rock paintings in the Sahara contain rainbow like color changes. But when used alone, the 'juice' of Amanita has no color, or dye, yet it still retains its heat changing or Thermochromatic properties.

Those properties activate at roughly 84 degrees Fahrenheit then disappear as temperatures climb or fall below that point. Disappearing shadows.

Shaman magic, the rocks speak.

You might also be interested in a side note or bit of trivia regarding that use in Mesoamerica. Its religious/shamanic use was noted and recorded for his handlers by the famous botanist Alexander von Humboldt.

Humboldt, coincidentally, was also the first to report the 1801 discovery of the element Vanadium in a sample of Mexican lead by Spanish mineralogist Andres Manuel del Rio. Unfortunately the accompanying sample was lost at sea in a shipwreck and the element wasn't discovered again and officially identified and recorded until several decades later.

 

[mdog]

No need for difficult concoctions, there are three species of Amanita Muscarias that contain a natural Vanadium compound, called Amavadin.

Amanitas have been used since ancient times for religious and divination purposes since at least 4000BC and the use has been observed on every continent. Used both as an intoxicant and as a base for polychromatic cave paintings or petroglyphs dating as far back as the Paleolithic period. I believe Mdog is aware of ceremonial practices of the Ojibwa and Ahnishinuabeg Indians in cave paintings of this nature in the Lake Michigan area.

Mixed with color compounds it gives the paint a polychromatic or heat changing color. Ancient polychromatic rock paintings in the Sahara contain rainbow like color changes. But when used alone, the 'juice' of Amanita has no color, or dye, yet it still retains its heat changing or Thermochromatic properties.

Those properties activate at roughly 84 degrees Fahrenheit then disappear as temperatures climb or fall below that point. Disappearing shadows.

Shaman magic, the rocks speak.

You might also be interested in a side note or bit of trivia regarding that use in Mesoamerica. Its religious/shamanic use was noted and recorded for his handlers by the famous botanist Alexander von Humboldt.

Humboldt, coincidentally, was also the first to report the 1801 discovery of the element Vanadium in a sample of Mexican lead by Spanish mineralogist Andres Manuel del Rio. Unfortunately the accompanying sample was lost at sea in a shipwreck and the element wasn't discovered again and officially identified and recorded until several decades later.

This is an excellent post. Thank you very much.

 

[sdcfia]

No need for difficult concoctions, there are three species of Amanita Muscarias that contain a natural Vanadium compound, called Amavadin.

Amanitas have been used since ancient times for religious and divination purposes since at least 4000BC and the use has been observed on every continent. Used both as an intoxicant and as a base for polychromatic cave paintings or petroglyphs dating as far back as the Paleolithic period. I believe Mdog is aware of ceremonial practices of the Ojibwa and Ahnishinuabeg Indians in cave paintings of this nature in the Lake Michigan area.

Mixed with color compounds it gives the paint a polychromatic or heat changing color. Ancient polychromatic rock paintings in the Sahara contain rainbow like color changes. But when used alone, the 'juice' of Amanita has no color, or dye, yet it still retains its heat changing or Thermochromatic properties.

Those properties activate at roughly 84 degrees Fahrenheit then disappear as temperatures climb or fall below that point. Disappearing shadows.

Shaman magic, the rocks speak.

You might also be interested in a side note or bit of trivia regarding that use in Mesoamerica. Its religious/shamanic use was noted and recorded for his handlers by the famous botanist Alexander von Humboldt.

Humboldt, coincidentally, was also the first to report the 1801 discovery of the element Vanadium in a sample of Mexican lead by Spanish mineralogist Andres Manuel del Rio. Unfortunately the accompanying sample was lost at sea in a shipwreck and the element wasn't discovered again and officially identified and recorded until several decades later.

Interesting. Thanks. Amanita Muscaria are quite prevalent here. They usually mature in the fall, but I guess due to this year's mild fall and winter, three or four weeks ago there were still many nice ones in the Pinos Altos Range, although past their prime. If I'd known about this polychromatic property I might have harvested some to experiment with. I would be curious about the permanence of the compound when exposed to various weathering conditions, and also how consistently it worked with various rock types. Here's a nice one I found on a permanent stream bank nearby a few years ago.

 

[Quinoa]

That's a nice picture of an amanita, I harvest alot of mushrooms, mainly morels in the spring, but have switched to fall edibles as well (chanterelles). And I take pictures of the non edibles sometimes. Some are huge..

 

[Quinoa]

Look at this monster, forgot the name of it, it turns blue inside when you cut it. Poisonous. Deadly can be very beautiful.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Interesting. Thanks. Amanita Muscaria are quite prevalent here. They usually mature in the fall, but I guess due to this year's mild fall and winter, three or four weeks ago there were still many nice ones in the Pinos Altos Range, although past their prime. If I'd known about this polychromatic property I might have harvested some to experiment with. I would be curious about the permanence of the compound when exposed to various weathering conditions, and also how consistently it worked with various rock types. Here's a nice one I found on a permanent stream bank nearby a few years ago.
View attachment 2002359

Let me know if and when you decide to experiment with this method, I'd be more than happy to document your trials for posterity.

I would enjoy it immensely, actually. 😁

 

[sdcfia]

That's a nice picture of an amanita, I harvest alot of mushrooms, mainly morels in the spring, but have switched to fall edibles as well (chanterelles). And I take pictures of the non edibles sometimes. Some are huge..

I found Lizard Head Pass to be a very productive source for chanterelles back about 1973. Nice eating.

You might know what this thing is. A bunch of them showed up in my driveway for the first time last summer. This thing started out as a nice dense ping-pong ball sized sphere then broke out big. It eventually got quite a bit bigger than this pic shows.

 

[sdcfia]

Let me know if and when you decide to experiment with this method, I'd be more than happy to document your trials for posterity.

I would enjoy it immensely, actually. 😁

Sounds like a possible plan. Remind me late next summer.

 

[Quinoa]

I found Lizard Head Pass to be a very productive source for chanterelles back about 1973. Nice eating.

You might know what this thing is. A bunch of them showed up in my driveway for the first time last summer. This thing started out as a nice dense ping-pong ball sized sphere then broke out big. It eventually got quite a bit bigger than this pic shows.
View attachment 2002391

Maybe Puffball, My Dad used to eat them sliced up, I 've never tried them. The immature amanitas though can clone them when they are small before they umbrella out with the gills underneath, so you want a good sized one, that one "looks" ok. I wouldn't eat anything with gills, even the most renowned mushroom identifiers in the world have died from , you guessed it, wrong Identification.

But I only eat the morels, and now the chanterelles in the fall for now. One patch of chanterelles is good for a couple meals, pretty nice, they cluster.

We had a fire last summer up by our cabin, the spring morel season will be nuts up there, probably a war zone from commercial pickers. Looking forward to it though. It will be epic. "Hands and knees" picking if you know fire morels.

 

[Quinoa]

Puffball, My Dad used to eat them sliced up, I 've never tried them. The immature amanitas can clone them when they are small before they umbrella out with the gills underneath, so you want a good sized one, that one "looks" ok. I wouldn't eat anything with gills, even the most renowned mushroom identifiers in the world have died from , you guessed it, wrong Identification.

But I only eat the morels, and now the chanterelles in the fall for now. One patch of chanterelles is good for a couple meals, pretty nice, they cluster.

We had a fire last summer up by our cabin, the spring morel season will be nuts up there, probably a war zone from commercial pickers. Looking forward to it though. It will be epic. "Hands and knees" picking if you know fire morels.

Oh and you mentioned driveway, don't do yard or landscaping mushrooms, they pick up all the toxic parts of the environment.