A LOOK AT JAMES BEVERLY WARD, AGENT OF THE BEALE PAPERS

[ECS]

...

And to say that you have never claimed outright "remedy/solve" as I refer, you should do your due-diligence before making such a statement as you have repeatedly made claim of nothing else. In these claims you have included just about everyone associated with Ward's family and even some of the people who sold the publication, repeatedly incriminating all of them in a family affair that you have absolutely zero evidence of their direct involvement in that narration...

Oh how you twist, turn, and misconstrue what I have posted.
I admit I do find that curious, as you have presented so many theories in your belief that the Beale story, as presented in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers dime novel job pamphlet, is not true but based on some other event.
What I have noticed, Bigscoop, is that you haven't disproved any of what I have presented, but just puny attempts of smoke screening the actual facts presented with tirades about "remedy/solve.
With all that smoke, you must believe I must have really started a fire.

 

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[bigscoop]

Oh how you twist, turn, and misconstrue what I have posted.
I admit I do find that curious, as you have presented so many theories in your belief that the Beale story, as presented in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers dime novel job pamphlet, is not true but based on some other event.
What I have noticed, Bigscoop, is that you haven't disproved any of what I have presented, but just puny attempts of smoke screening the actual facts presented with tirades about "remedy/solve.
With all that smoke, you must believe I must have really started a fire.

....no....I just know you think you've started a fire. Again, what are wishing to argue about? In many many post I have supported the fiction theory as being the strongest theory on the table, this I have stated numerous times, yes? But unlike you I only say this due to the total absence of directly connecting evidence to anything else, but as you must have mistaken, I have never supported that there was ever any directly connecting evidence to the fiction theory, because there isn't. Sure, we know that some aspects of the narration hold certain discrepancies, deceptions, and inaccuracies, but this , my friend, in noway turns the entire narration into a conclusive, "simple dime novel for parlor entertainment only." Much less does it in anyway turn the narration into a simple dime novel constructed around Ward's family and certain family events, as you continue to claim as a matter of fact. Why? Because there is still absolutely nothing to support that claim as fact. Sorry, just insuring that the fiction claim is subject to the same parameters as every other, "theory." You and I have both asked others what they're willing to accept as confirmation, verification? I think it only fair that we restrict ourselves to those same expectations. Don't you? I have no problem with doing so.

 

[bigscoop]

You know ECS, perhaps I should explain why I still enjoy these forums so much. I enjoy them for many reasons but mainly I enjoy them for the frequent new notions that are often entered in post. Per example, you yourself have, on more then one occasion, asked why the author would wait until everyone was dead before publishing his narration? You were asking with the purpose to express a notion/belief regarding that very issue.

Me on the other hand, I found your question interesting and so I went to work and investigated why that might have been done and to my surprise it actually has and still continues to happen way more often then you might think. Think not? Well, then might I suggest that you look no further then the courts, where documents are often ordered to be sealed for extended periods of time just for the purpose of protecting agreements, the innocent, the involved parties, and many other reasons. You might also find it interesting to note that many biographies weren't published until after the deaths of those involved and those referenced, etc., etc., etc.

The debates you and I have often shared have provided many such curiosities and frequent insights. Just one of the perks of engaging in debates where contrary viewpoints are expressed and new questions are presented. All of this often leading to new possibilities and new areas of research. Who knows where it all might eventually lead? Maybe nowhere. But it is certain that it can only lead nowhere if nobody bothers to investigate those new questions and notions. This is what I often get out of our frequent debates. “Good questions!” And sometimes, new possibilities, regardless which side of the debate they might favor.

 

[ECS]

Whose is arguing? If it is not a fictional dime novel that our "unknown author" wrote employing various sources including tales from his family history, journals from real expeditions, Poe, treasure stories from newspapers as influences to create the Beale narrative story, then just prove the Beale story as written is true. No one has done that in 130 years, but if you have definitive proof Ward's 1885 Beale Papers is NOT a work of fiction, please, by all means, bring it forth and prove me wrong.

 

[bigscoop]

Whose is arguing? If it is not a fictional dime novel that our "unknown author" wrote employing various sources including tales from his family history, journals from real expeditions, Poe, treasure stories from newspapers as influences to create the Beale narrative story, then just prove the Beale story as written is true. No one has done that in 130 years, but if you have definitive proof Ward's 1885 Beale Papers is NOT a work of fiction, please, by all means, bring it forth and prove me wrong.

Yet again, let me say one more time, the following, this time even in bold;
"There is absolutely nothing to confirm/verify the narration one way or the other."
"The fiction theory is still the strongest theory on the table."
"There is absolutely nothing to directly connect anyone to the narration other then Ward being the representing agent."

I think I've been pretty darn consistent, and frequent, with these statements. Even affording you the opportunity to provide confirmation/verification that the narration was just a simple dime novel for parlor entertainment. Have I not. The best response I did get was, "confirmed influences" which still can't be confirmed/verified. So, as it is, I will still stand on the statement that, "there is absolutely nothing to confirm the narration to be anything anyone claims it to be other then it still being a complete mystery whose true nature and source is still totally unknown."

 

[ECS]

If you say so, Bigscoop, it must be a confirmed influence connexion that make it true.

 

[bigscoop]

Yet again, let me say one more time, the following, this time even in bold;
"There is absolutely nothing to confirm/verify the narration one way or the other."
"The fiction theory is still the strongest theory on the table."
"There is absolutely nothing to directly connect anyone to the narration other then Ward being the representing agent."

I think I've been pretty darn consistent, and frequent, with these statements. Even affording you the opportunity to provide confirmation/verification that the narration was just a simple dime novel for parlor entertainment. Have I not. The best response I did get was, "confirmed influences" which still can't be confirmed/verified. So, as it is, I will still stand on the statement that, "there is absolutely nothing to confirm the narration to be anything anyone claims it to be other then it still being a complete mystery whose true nature and source is still totally unknown."

Let me repeat the above, yet again. The above is what I'm saying, yet again.

"If you say so, Bigscoop, it must be a confirmed influence connexion that make it true." The prior is not what I am saying, never have.
I only reference "connexions" as a possibility that "I think" might have been entered intentionally.

Yet again, let me say one more time, the following, this time, once again, in bold;
"There is absolutely nothing to confirm/verify the narration one way or the other."
"The fiction theory is still the strongest theory on the table."
"There is absolutely nothing to directly connect anyone to the narration other then Ward being the representing agent."

I think I've been pretty darn consistent, and frequent, with these statements. Even affording you the opportunity to provide confirmation/verification that the narration was just a simple dime novel for parlor entertainment. Have I not. The best response I did get was, "confirmed influences" which still can't be confirmed/verified. So, as it is, I will still stand on the statement that, "there is absolutely nothing to confirm the narration to be anything anyone claims it to be other then it still being a complete mystery whose true nature and source is still totally unknown."

Got it?

 

[ECS]

...

Got it? [/B]

Methinks, the Bigscoop doth protest too much!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Agree, BS is Stressing himself, TOO much.

 

[ECS]

"JB" Ward was their ONLY child; I reckon that he DID get "HH". I think he lived there for a while; in 1884, they weren't WEALTHY...

That could be the motivation to publish an adventure/treasure dime novel with parlor entertainment ciphers that sold for 50 cents a copy.
*NOTE - 50 cents in 1885 had the value of $13.00 in todays money, a heavy price for that time.

 

[bigscoop]

.....I'm not even the slightest stressed.....just having some forum fun with it all.

 

[Cryptography]

Well, you think wrong.

If you can not produce this article I will understand. For I have been thru them all and that one dose not exist!

 

[Cryptography]

THAT, I know... I asked YOU if you saw it in FRENCH!

Not at the time it was first printed, you?

 

[Cryptography]

If you say so, Crypto, if you say so!
By the way, you do realize that both you and Laf spell "dose" for "does"?
...and have done that many, many times on these threads.
Coincidence?

So, you can't produce this article then!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

We do not have grammar police here. Word to the wise, throwing insults at members is what got Franklin and Laf their timeouts.




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DT2016

 

[ECS]

Back to the subject.
Robert Morriss died at his nieces home.
Would that have been Ella Risqué Ward, who would have been 19 yo during the "2nd year of the Confederate War"?

 

[Tnmountains]

I will not come in here and Sabre rattle but when post start disappearing I hope that you can understand why. Good day.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Back to the subject.
Robert Morriss died at his nieces home.
Would that have been Ella Risqué Ward, who would have been 19 yo during the "2nd year of the Confederate War"?

Will look into it... think it was on Roslyn Street; south west of 12th Street. Niece was a Mrs. Saunders, I think.

 

[ECS]

What did Ward do during the Confederate War?
He joined Mason dove lodge #51 in Richmond, and either worked for of freelanced for RITCHIE & DUNNAVANT of Richmond, major printers for the Confederate government with contributions as "Tables Of Distances From Principle Points In The Confederate States".
While his Hutter, Buford, and Otey relatives served in the Confederacy, there is NO Confederate military record for James Beverly Ward.

Except for the "Tables of Distances" , what did Ward do for a living during the Confederate War, and afterward during Reconstruction up to the publication of the Beale Papers in 1885?

 

[bigscoop]

Except for the "Tables of Distances" , what did Ward do for a living during the Confederate War, and afterward during Reconstruction up to the publication of the Beale Papers in 1885?

That's just it....we really don't know enough about any of the people regarding the narration, just the basics. We need to know more if we can.