A Heap of Proof.

[Matthew Roberts]

Hal Croves,

In 1822 John Jackson Tumlinson was appointed Alcalde to the Brazos Texas Colony by Mexican Governor Jose Trespalacios. The significant thing about that is to be appointed alcalde a person had to know how to read and write. In 1822 Arkansas/Texas the only people who could read or write let alone both were probably Masons.

I had always thought it something significant that Travis Tumlinsons ancestor George W. Tumlinson was part of the Gonzales guard that hurried to the Alamo's defense on March 1 and died there 5 days later fighting Santa Ana's Army.

One of the men with Jacob Snively on that prospecting expedition when he was killed by Apache's was Jacob Starrar, the next door neighbor of Jacob Waltz the "Dutchman". Swilling never forgave Starrar and the others for running out on Snively and leaving his body to be mutilated.

The Tumlinsons were one of the more educated families in earliest Texas. Of the 300 original families the Tumlinsons would have been near the top. In my own personal research Travis Tumlinson struck me as a very educated man and certainly Clarence Mitchell thought he was also. Interesting how this forum for the most part has exactly the opposite opinion of him.

Matthew

 

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[Matthew Roberts]

Hal Croves,

I'm sure you probably already know the first successful masonic Lodge in Texas was in John Jackson Tumlinson's Alcalde at the Brazos Colony also known as Brazoria. Dr. Anson Jones met with 5 other Masons under the Masonic Oak at Brazoria on December 27, 1835 and established the Holland Lodge #36.
This was prior to the battle at the Alamo. Jones had been granted a Masonic charter from the Grand Lodge of Louisiana.
I'm beginning to see the Tumlinson's were not only involved but were up to their necks in it.

Matthew

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal Croves,

I'm sure you probably already know the first successful masonic Lodge in Texas was in John Jackson Tumlinson's Alcalde at the Brazos Colony also known as Brazoria. Dr. Anson Jones met with 5 other Masons under the Masonic Oak at Brazoria on December 27, 1835 and established the Holland Lodge #36.
This was prior to the battle at the Alamo. Jones had been granted a Masonic charter from the Grand Lodge of Louisiana.
I'm beginning to see the Tumlinson's were not only involved but were up to their necks in it.

Matthew

Yes, you are correct. The Tumlinson clan seems to have been deeply tied to Freemasonry. I think but, I do not know with certainty, even further back in time, when the family lived on the East Coast NC, GA(?). Peter Frank and his brothers would have had access to all the historically important characters in Texas at this time. Their father's murder and the fact that these young men tracked down then executed their fathers killers (12 or 13 natives) (Joseph age12) is beyond impressive.

I have not researched this ad yet, but it would not be out of line to suggest a family connection. Texas being pro-slavery, the Tumlinsons being pro-Confederacy.

View attachment 1182267
20, October, 1846 Macon Weekly Telegraph
​

So, we have an historically important family with deep ties to Southern Freemasonry, Southern principles, and stone treasure maps. That family emigrated to Arkansas Territory, Texas, and eventually, to Arizona.

It all sounds perfectly logical. Nothing earth shattering, in fact, just a pile of facts.

But, what if the same stone map scenario played out again, just like the Tumlinson discovery story, only this time it plays out with an entirely different person from an entirely different family. Someone who fought in the same battles as the Tumlinsons. Someone who left Arkansas for Texas, then settled in the heart of the Superstitions, not very far from the bridge at Queen Creek. Someone who had their own set of stone maps, or, if you want, the same set.

Would that be just a coincidence or something just too coincidental?

As you know, that is exactly what happened thirty something years before Travis became involved.

 

[Hal Croves]

Here is a short geneology of the family involved in the second stone map discovery scenario but, I am going to intentionally alter the last name to a random number 23514113433152. There are surviving family members in the area and out of courtesy to them, I will not be posting their name. In fairness, that information is available online.


Descendants of Stephen 23514113433152. Generation No. 1 1. STEPHEN1 23514113433152.
was born 1815 in South Carolina. He married ETNY EDNA 23514113433152.. She was
born 1808 in Georgia. Notes for STEPHEN 23514113433152.:THIS FAMILY USES THE SURNAME 23514113433152..


Children of STEPHEN 23514113433152. and ETNY 23514113433152.are:2.


i. SAMUEL 23514113433152., b. 04 October 1842, Pickensvile, Alabama; d. 08 April 1896, Baby Head, Llano County, Texas.


ii. MARY 23514113433152., b. 1843, Mississippi.


iii. GEORGE M. 23514113433152., b. 1847.

Generation No. 2 2. SAMUEL2 23514113433152.(STEPHEN1) was born 04 October 1842 in Pickensvile, Alabama, and died 08 April 1896 in Baby Head, Llano County, Texas. He married SARAH SALLIE xxxx 20 October 1860 in Ashley County, Arkansas. She was born 17 October 1844 in Pickensville, Conecuh County, Alabama, and died 04 April 1926 in Tarrant County, Texas?

About SAMUEL 23514113433152: .Military service: War Between the States PVT Enlisted Co. A 37th AR Inf Rgt CSA,


Children of SAMUEL 23514113433152. and SARAH Xxxx are:


i. JAMES S. 23514113433152., b. 20 May 1862, Arkansas; d. 19 February 1876.


ii. FRANCES ,23514113433152. b. 04 March 1865, Arkansas.


iii. JOHN W. , 23514113433152. b. 26 September 1867, Arkansas; d. 08 October 1869, Arkansas.

iv. AUGUSTUS LAFAYETTE 23514113433152., b. 26 June 1869, Snyder, Ashley County, Arkansas; d.10 January 1956, Superior, Pinal County, Arozonia; m. MYRTA ANN Xxxx, 30 April 1892, Baby Head, Llano County, Texas; b. 09 April 1874, Gonzalas, Gonzalas County, Texas; d. 06 March 1960, Superior, PinalCounty, Arizona.


v. EMMA LEE 23514113433152., b. 25 August 1871, Arkansas; d. 13 July 1877, Arkansas. vi. MARVIN H. MEDLOCK, b. 24 March 1874, Arkansas; d. 20 September 1877, Arkansas.


vii. LIZZIE 23514113433152., b. 17 December 1875, Arkansas; d.18 December 1875, Arkansas.


viii. JESSIE 23514113433152., b. 13 May 1877, Arkansas; d. 08 July 1880, Arkansas.


ix. JEWEL ALEXANDER 23514113433152., b. 15 July 1880, Arkansas; d. 10 January 1955.


x. ADDIE SWANSON 23514113433152., b. 04 October 1883, Arkansas.


xi. WILEY 23514113433152., b. 04 October 1886. Notes for WILEY: Wiley is an epileptic who is supported by the state.

Augustus Lafayette 23514113433152. had his own set of stone treasure maps.
They may be the exact same stones that Tumlinson was working with in 56', which is the same year that old "Gus", Augustus died.

If they are not, we have the greatest coincidence ever. Two families with similar histories coming to the Superstition, looking for something with a set of stone maps.

What are the odds?

Samuel 23514113433152, rode with the 37th AR (CSA)
Peter Frank Tumlinson's three sons rode with the 36th TX (CSA)
John Jackson Tumlinson rode with Madison's Regiment, Texas Cavalry (Phillips') (3rd Regiment, Arizona Brigade)

Compare their movements during the war.
Then after.
Where was Augustus' wife born and why is that important?

 

[Hal Croves]

Augustus L. "Gus" took possession of his stone maps more than 30 years before Travis allegedly discovered his set on Queen Creek. There are a few discrepancies in the description of the stones in A.L.'s article. Most can be explained with A.L.'s lack of knowledge or experience in what he was describing.

Identicle stones or not, we now have several groups following stone treasure maps in the same general area. And with connected family histories.

Note that Gus said that his stones lead to treasure in TX.
Which may or may not be true.
But, we then must explain why he and his family relocated to the Superior area.

Gus was a Hassayampa.
And a Mason.
​

View attachment 1182432

About 30 Years Before Travis Discovered His Stone Maps.

View attachment 1182433

Augustus L. 23514113433152
​

 

[Bavarian Joe]

Perhaps Travis heard the earlier story and it gave him the idea to make a set of his own?

I won't lie, I think they're fake. What interests me is the story behind them. Why did he do it? Was he planning a con of some sort and it fell through due to the drunken uncle borrowing them? Was he looking for something else, and came up with the story to grubstake the search? Or maybe it was a deal like "The Producers"...

 

[sdcfia]

What was the date of that newspaper article?

 

[Hal Croves]

A few years before WWI.

Gus and his son (another remarkable man BTW involved in local commercial mining) were Masons and veterans. Gus was intelligent, creative, had a sense of humor, and was interested in something in or near the Superstitions.

While a few TNet members may dismiss this heap of facts, facts are hard to argue with. The Tumlinsons and Gus, his family, are connected in many ways. The fact that both groups were involved in stone maps and a hunt for treasure in the same general area is beyond coincidence.

Gus owned a one fifth interest in the stone maps. One stone for each partner? Five stones or just five partners? The conclusion I draw is that Travis did not "discover" the stone maps and that they (the 3 maps) date to 1847ish, perhaps older.

Perhaps they were left to him, or returned to him.

View attachment 1182478

View attachment 1182480

View attachment 1182482
​

 

[cactusjumper]

A few years before WWI.

Gus and his son (another remarkable man BTW involved in local commercial mining) were Masons and veterans. Gus was intelligent, creative, had a sense of humor, and was interested in something in or near the Superstitions.

While a few TNet members may dismiss this heap of facts, facts are hard to argue with. The Tumlinsons and Gus, his family, are connected in many ways. The fact that both groups were involved in stone maps and a hunt for treasure in the same general area is beyond coincidence.

Gus owned a one fifth interest in the stone maps. One stone for each partner? Five stones or just five partners? The conclusion I draw is that Travis did not "discover" the stone maps and that they (the 3 maps) date to 1847ish, perhaps older.

Perhaps they were left to him, or returned to him.

Hal,

Have to say......After 50+ years of looking into the stones, I never made a Masonic connection. That's some very serious digging. Much like the Tucson artifacts, I never bought that connection either.

In your research, did you ever take note of how many members of the Tumlinson family were left handed? There is a definite left handed writers slant to the letters on the stones. Family trait?

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Not Peralta]

Hal Croves,& Matthew Roberts, Amigo's
Its really refreshing to see two dedicated researchers working hard to solve a mystery, keep up the good work.NP

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

Have to say......After 50+ years of looking into the stones, I never made a Masonic connection. That's some very serious digging. Much like the Tucson artifacts, I never bought that connection either.

In your research, did you ever take note of how many members of the Tumlinson family were left handed? There is a definite left handed writers slant to the letters on the stones. Family trait?

Good luck,

Joe

Well, if you are unable to see the connection after 50+ years, perhaps you simply refuse to acknowledge it. Its there. Any intelligent being with an open mind can read the facts and form their own conclusions. One way or another.

Its honestly not my concern who believes what. I am only hoping to present another side of the story which is why everything that I have offered is a demonstrated historical fact. Isn't that what the skeptics have been calling for, facts, evidence, proof?

I am not sure that I follow your logic in comparing historical facts to the Tucson objects.

Here, Gus is visiting family in Oregon.

View attachment 1182506
​

 

[cactusjumper]

Hal Croves,& Matthew Roberts, Amigo's
Its really refreshing to see two dedicated researchers working hard to solve a mystery, keep up the good work.NP

NP,

I doubt there is anyone who would disagree as to the research abilities of those two men. It would be nice to see them tackle the Superstition Jesuit Mission next. I believe there is a lot more of that story to come.

Unfortunately, I don't run with those dogs anymore. A slow walk is about all I can muster.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Well, if you are unable to see the connection after 50+ years, perhaps you simply refuse to acknowledge it. Its there. Any intelligent being with an open mind can read the facts and form their own conclusions. One way or another.

Its honestly not my concern who believes what. I am only hoping to present another side of the story which is why everything that I have offered is a demonstrated historical fact. Isn't that what the skeptics have been calling for, facts, evidence, proof?

I am not sure that I follow your logic in comparing historical facts to the Tucson objects.

View attachment 1182506
​

Hal,

My previous post is a weak attempt to explain my lack of ability to connect the dots.

I do wish you well on your continuing research.

Take care,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Hal,

My previous post is a weak attempt to explain my lack of ability to connect the dots.

I do wish you well on your continuing research.

Take care,

Joe

for some reasom that no one seems to know or understand he thinks proving the tumlinsons were masons that will solve the stone maps....most of us think he is wasting his time but i guess it's his time to waste

 

[cactusjumper]

for some reasom that no one seems to know or understand he thinks proving the tumlinsons were masons that will solve the stone maps....most of us think he is wasting his time but i guess it's his time to waste

Dave,

I don't really know who is wasting their time. I would like to see the Skull and Bones Society tied into this mystery. There must be some kind of connection there........obviously.

Take care,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

I don't really know who is wasting their time. I would like to see the Skull and Bones Society tied into this mystery. There must be some kind of connection there........obviously.

Take care,

Joe

joe...as you know i think the stone maps are fakes and everyone has been going about this mystery the wrong way...they all try to prove they arent fakes...i think if people would concentrate their efforts into proving they are fake...this mystery would be cleared up easy enough

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

My previous post is a weak attempt to explain my lack of ability to connect the dots.

I do wish you well on your continuing research.

Take care,

Joe

The Tumlinson clan either knew or is related to Samuel, father of Augutus "Gus". The fact that they were in the same battles, the same locations during the war, the fact that their paths of migration overlap, the fact that the two families were involved in stone treasure maps and the Superstitions, that connects almost all the dots. For me.

The Masonic connection is very real. It may have even facilitated the original discovery or theft if we can believe Gus. It certainly helped to keep the search active relatively quiet. But the connection is really not as mysterious as people tend to make it.

My advice to skeptics would be to acknowledge a Masonic connection, seeing it for what it is, and then put it aside or even forget about it. Its only a small part of a much larger story.

Gus and his stone treasure maps are the twist.
But there is another, even stranger one.

 

[Not Peralta]

For all skeptics,want a mystery or connection.
Why is it everywhere theres a Treasure its on govt land, who is really in charge, remember the Masons that were in charge are the ones trying to figure out how to control the lands.NP

 

[cactusjumper]

The Tumlinson clan either knew or is related to Samuel, father of Augutus "Gus". The fact that they were in the same battles, the same locations during the war, the fact that their paths of migration overlap, the fact that the two families were involved in stone treasure maps and the Superstitions, that connects almost all the dots. For me.

The Masonic connection is very real. It may have even facilitated the original discovery or theft if we can believe Gus. It certainly helped to keep the search active and relatively quiet. But the connection is really not as mysterious as people tend to make it.
My advice to skeptics would be to acknowledge a Masonic connection, seeing it for what it is, and then put it aside or even forget about it. Its only a small part of a much larger story.

Gus and his stone treasure maps was the twist.
But there is another, even stranger one.

Hal,

The twists and turns of the Superstition legends are enough to keep Sherlock Holmes awake nights for a lifetime. In truth the connections, real or imagined, are a spider web of enormous proportions. As you pursue your own line of connections and end up in Tucson, it only brings Ted DeGrazia back into the equation.

Keep up the good work,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

for some reasom that no one seems to know or understand he thinks proving the tumlinsons were masons that will solve the stone maps....most of us think he is wasting his time but i guess it's his time to waste

He? Hmmm.
azdave,
You seem to be overly focused on the Masonic connection. First there wasn't one, now there is but it is irrelevant and a waste of time. You have voiced that opinion several times now. Again, I ask why? Why are you here? Why would you waste your time?

How would a Masonic connection solve the stone maps cipher? It more than likely can't and no one here has said that it would. We are researching history and trying to date the stone maps. Anything more is unrealistic.

Are you a brother Mason?