A Heap of Proof.

[Hal Croves]

Las Vegas Bob, im guessing Hal figured we would go look at the
connections, i think this is the easier route, at least for me
at Travis link, click the group sheet link for his father, using the
group sheet for which ever retaliative, just seems easier to me
but i do like the history of each person too, ya never know what
youll find in a family tree

Travis
Travis Elmo TUMLINSON b. 1910 Texas, USA d. 1961 Hood River County, Oregon, USA: Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page
Travis father
Family Group Sheet for John Jackson TUMLINSON/Alice Melvina LEASMAN (F20078) m. Abt 1910 : Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page
Travis grandfather
Family Group Sheet for John J. TUMLINSON/Isabella G. CRESAP (F153) m. 8 Mar 1866 : Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page

Yes, the names in the post are all hyper-linked back to the Barritts page. That is intentional and a form of referencing the source. Click on a name (in red) to see the info source.
The Barritt page info is however limited to dates and names. I am simply expanding on that work and collecting important quotes for you to read.

 

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[Hal Croves]

Hello Hal,


"the Heart & Trail stone were known to exist as early as 1910. Are they authentic stone maps to a lost mine or treasure? No one, not even you can answer that question positive until the maps are followed with success. All we can do is hope to date them". Hal Crove


Look forward to your analysis. Should be a good read for anyone interested in the Maps.

Good luck.

Starman

You know, in the back of my head I frequently wonder about you and OZ. I would follow you right to the library door if you broke a few rules and let down your guard.

 

[cw0909]

Yes, the names in the post are all hyper-linked back to the Barritts page. That is intentional and a form of referencing the source. Click on a name (in red) to see the info source.
The Barritt page info is however limited to dates and names. I am simply expanding on that work and collecting important quotes for you to read.

thanks saves me going to look it all up, LOL, no really i like the history
life calls ill check back in a few days see whats been added

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

Las Vegas Bob, im guessing Hal figured we would go look at the
connections, i think this is the easier route, at least for me
at Travis link, click the group sheet link for his father, using the
group sheet for which ever retaliative, just seems easier to me
but i do like the history of each person too, ya never know what
youll find in a family tree

Travis
Travis Elmo TUMLINSON b. 1910 Texas, USA d. 1961 Hood River County, Oregon, USA: Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page
Travis father
Family Group Sheet for John Jackson TUMLINSON/Alice Melvina LEASMAN (F20078) m. Abt 1910 : Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page
Travis grandfather
Family Group Sheet for John J. TUMLINSON/Isabella G. CRESAP (F153) m. 8 Mar 1866 : Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page

There is so much bloviating here I just thought I could save myself and others sometime and just get to the facts Travis, who may have craved/found the maps, was he a mason or not? With all the grave side pictures it looks as if this line of thinking is being presented. If he was a mason did it have any influence on him if he faked the maps to make it look like a mason carved them. So if not then.......



Being a mason is not something that swims in the gene pool.

 

[Hal Croves]

There is so much bloviating here I just thought I could save myself and others sometime and just get to the facts Travis, who may have craved/found the maps, was he a mason or not? With all the grave side pictures it looks as if this line of thinking is being presented. If he was a mason did it have any influence on him if he faked the maps to make it look like a mason carved them. So if not then.......

View attachment 1181878

Being a mason is not something that swims in the gene pool.

Actually it should have been READ. Nothing to r e a d here.
Now that you have made your thoughts known, will you take your own advice?
What I am writing about will not interest you.

But if you can't, for whatever reasons, try to draw your own conclusions.
That's why the information is there.

Ryan has twice now offered clues that suggest Travis was not a Mason. A criminal past and a man without a faith. Some criminal pasts can be forgiven even overlooked in the Masonic world. A man without a belief in God can not be a Mason. It has little to do with Travis' religion or lack of declared faith. It has to to with a lack of belief in a Supreme Being, the Grand Architect, the big G. Anyone can become a Mason from any faith. The GOD thing is the big prerequisite. Perhaps Travis was an atheist? If so, he would not have been a Mason.

But he didn't need to be one either. Travis belonged to a different generation, was from a different time. He still had a father, a controversial grandfather and extended family. Pull back, see the bigger picture.

BTW,,, you a Mason?

 

[Old]

Quote: Being a mason is not something that swims in the gene pool.[/QUOTE]



Or; maybe it does <g>. Hal, I know that's your nom de plume. Just showing you random connections are not always what you think they are.

 

[RG1976]

Get yourself a copy of his obituary - and your questions will be answered in 20 seconds flat. It's all there. Look shallow - deep won't do you any good

 

[Hal Croves]

Quote: Being a mason is not something that swims in the gene pool.

View attachment 1181888
Or; maybe it does <g>. Hal, I know that's your nom de plume. Just showing you random connections are not always what you think they are.[/QUOTE]

Old,
I am simply laying down the foundation for whats coming. I needed to be able to have a point of reference for those following along with an open mind. For example, had I written, Peg Leg was a hog thief and suspected murder, would anyone have believed me outright? A news article placed on a genealogical timeline lets members proof everything and form their own ideas. The timeline clearly shows that Tavis' Great Grandfather (Joseph), along with his brothers Peter & John, to be the cornerstone of Freemasonry in Texas and are among the original Texas Rangers. Their father John Jackson Tumlinson was an extremely influential and politically powerful figure with close ties to the Mexican Government.

So, we have a politically powerful family coming by invitation to settle Texas. Because of the native threat, Mexican bandits, and outlaws in general, the Tumlinsons form a group dedicated to the rule of law. They evolve into the "Masonic" Texas Rangers (not my quote). Some of their sons become Masons and TX Rangers, and eventually, soldiers in the Confederate Army. At least two of these men returned from war to live controversial lives. One may have killed his wife before committing suicide, the other may have murdered Daly Durand and stole a bunch of hogs.

Peg Leg, or John Jackson Tumlinson, rode in 62/63 with the devastated men who attempted to retake Arizona in 62. Jack Swilling was with them until flipping sides. Jack lead a party of miners right to the Hassayampa gold. Just luck or did Jack know where he was going? These men (Not Jack S.) were brothers and fathers to each other from 63 to 65. Many were Masons.

I understand the point that you are making with names. I have only listed known and confirmed genealogical data. The names are 100% related, meaning no random connections.

 

[Hal Croves]

If you find any "mason" jars using Hal's info.......beware

somehiker,

So, basically you are saying that all this historical data is falsified or somehow unrelated?
I think you are going to feel the pains more than most here when I am done posting.
You will need to rethink a few things.

Really not one of your better posts. (Removed)

Perhaps this will help you. Sibley sent soldiers to take Tucson. They did so without much of a fight leaving us with the impression that Tucson residence welcomed a Rebels occupation. They did as there was no security. At this time, 62-65, there was also ZERO commercial mining activity in Arizona due to the Apache raids.

Once the Yanks came in from California, the rebels beat a path for Texas. Over a thousand men perished most on the return march. Simply left behind, left victim to the desert and roaming Apache. Yanks had burned their much needed supplies. The march line was at one time some 50 miles long. It is a forgottton death trail. Very sad.

Look at who those men were. See that later, Peg leg road with these men into battle against the Union.

View attachment 1181930
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View attachment 1181931
​

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,

So, basically you are saying that all this historical data is falsified or somehow unrelated?
I think you are going to feel the pains more than most here when I am done posting.
You will need to rethink a few things.

Really not one of your better posts. Sounds almost desperate.

Not at all Vic.
I just found it on FB a little while ago and thought the rest of you treasure hunters would find it as funny as I did, so I went looking for a current thread to drop it into. Since it's a "mason jar" add (sorry mods), I guess I mistakenly thought your "masons" thread would do. But since you object, I will remove the posted vid and put it somewhere else.
You may remove it as well from your reply if you wish, since I cannot delete it from your post myself.

 

[Hal Croves]

Not at all Vic.
I just found it on FB a little while ago and thought the rest of you treasure hunters would find it as funny as I did, so I went looking for a current thread to drop it into. Since it's a "mason jar" add (sorry mods), I guess I mistakenly thought your "masons" thread would do. But since you object, I will remove the posted vid and put it somewhere else.
You may remove it as well from your reply if you wish, since I cannot delete it from your post myself.

somehiker,
When you put aside the backhanded comments and start paying attention to the facts, you will see that they only lend credence to the idea that the stones predate Travis. Who knows, they may even predate Peg Leg, or James, or even John. If I understand your theory correctly, a date before Travis only works to supports your belief.

The Tumlinson's trace back to Arkansas Territory. That is fact. An important fact.

View attachment 1181946
​

"Governor Baylor, seeing that military force alone would not solve the problem of the Apaches, determined to use other means as well. First, he sent Captain Sherod Hunter into Western Arizona with orders to negotiate treaties with the Pima and Papago Indians, long-time enemies of the Apache. Hunter and his command arrived in Tucson on February 28, 1862. There is some reason to believe that his arrival may have deterred a major attack on the town by the Apaches, although this is not certain. At any rate, Hunter sent his men out on patrols to pacify the surrounding area, and for a little while, at least, Tucson felt safe from the threat of Indian attack.


On March 3, Hunter proceeded to the Pima villages, located on the Gila River, near the site of the present day town of Sacaton. He met with the Chief of the Pimas, Antonio Azul, and, in pursuit of his orders, made a treaty for mutual defense against the Apaches. There is little doubt that the treaty would have been of great use but for the fact that the Confederate Territory of Arizona collapsed shortly after it was negotiated. Governor Baylor's essay into diplomacy thus proved devoid of results."


Now ask the question. Where did Sherod Hunter go after the failed New Mexico campaign? To Texas Vic, where he rode into war with the likes of John Jackson Tumlinson, "Peg Leg". They eventually all meet in Louisiana and Arkansas.

Thats where the story takes an amazing turn.

 

[somehiker]

Hi Hal:

Sorry you are so offended by my "backhanded comment", for it wasn't intended as such.
While I haven't gone as deeply into the Tumlinson geneology as Gary and yourself, I did have a look during the beginnings of my research into the stones.
At that time I posted a few things about Pegleg and his treasure related history, as well as a shot of his gravestone and a statue as well. The statue was related to his Texas Ranger history as I recall. Some of what I found online also mentioned his Masonic ties, but since I do not see where that any such relevance to what I have found thus far myself, I see no reason for further research of Freemason connections on my part. If your own contributions to all of this should cause me any pain whatsoever, I will be sure to let you know within this topic. Otherwise, I will refrain from any further comment.....fair enough ?

Regards:SH.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hi Hal:

Sorry you are so offended by my "backhanded comment", for it wasn't intended as such.
While I haven't gone as deeply into the Tumlinson geneology as Gary and yourself, I did have a look during the beginnings of my research into the stones.
At that time I posted a few things about Pegleg and his treasure related history, as well as a shot of his gravestone and a statue as well. The statue was related to his Texas Ranger history as I recall. Some of what I found online also mentioned his Masonic ties, but since I do not see where that any such relevance to what I have found thus far myself, I see no reason for further research of Freemason connections on my part. If your own contributions to all of this should cause me any pain whatsoever, I will be sure to let you know within this topic. Otherwise, I will refrain from any further comment.....fair enough ?

Regards:SH.

somehiker,
I will be right along side you in pain as I have absolutely destroyed my own ideas and theories. Halseth? Too late in the picture except perhaps the Horse & Trail Stones. I spent hours and hours researching Halseth. And it was gone with one small discovery. So, while you may think that I was being a wise ass, I was in reality feeling your pain. Unless something suddenly comes along to define Queen Creek as the true discovery site (not impossible) the discovery location is a false story.

If this story is correct, we have been duped, that is most of us anyway.

Post where and what you want.
I don't believe in censorship.

View attachment 1181974

The Good, The Bad, The Ugly 1966

The retreating Confederates were returning from the New Mexico Campaign.
Sibley's Men.


​

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

BTW,,, you a Mason?

I would never admit to that, or I mean they seem to be getting blamed for every thing from craving stone maps to landscaping poodles onto the sides of mountains. Thank goodness they did all this before the environmental revolution least wise fines would be flying. This only lends credence to the fact that when a point of view prevents impartial judgment on issues relating to the subject of that point of view. I will have to confess to and putting all seriousness aside for the moment that I buy my clothes at Millers Outpost or at least I did until they became Anchor Blue Inc.

 

[sdcfia]

Peg Leg, or John Jackson Tumlinson, rode in 62/63 with the devastated men who attempted to retake Arizona in 62. Jack Swilling was with them until flipping sides. Jack lead a party of miners right to the Hassayampa gold. Just luck or did Jack know where he was going?

Figure out who his best friend was, then ask the question again.

 

[Hal Croves]

I would never admit to that, or I mean they seem to be getting blamed for every thing from craving stone maps to landscaping poodles onto the sides of mountains. Thank goodness they did all this before the environmental revolution least wise fines would be flying. This only lends credence to the fact that when a point of view prevents impartial judgment on issues relating to the subject of that point of view. I will have to confess to and putting all seriousness aside for the moment that I buy my clothes at Millers Outpost or at least I did until they became Anchor Blue Inc.

Blamed? I think you have it all wrong. If you are a Brother Mason, you should be proud since this country is held together with Masonic thread. When you loose the drama that has attached itself to that name, a Mason, and see the fact like you would any other aspect of a man life, its just another thing. Like belonging to an Italian social club in Queens. I may be wrong but, I don't think that you are a Mason for several reasons. Its certainly nothing to hide if you were.

Don't forget, the Masons broke the Catholic Church, it cruel hold on Mexico. Without Masonry, we might still be burning heretics once a week in Mexico City.

 

[Hal Croves]

Figure out who his best friend was, then ask the question again.

Your thinking Walker?
I am thinking.... Between those events, Swilling's good friend from the Gila City and Pinos Altos gold-discovery days, Col. Jacob Snively, was killed by Indians near White Picacho northwest of Phoenix.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...liam-emory-s-notes-lost-adams-diggings-2.html

The Arizona Miner of April 8, 1871, reported that Snively and four other men, one of them Andrew Starar, were attacked by about 180 Indians.
Swilling had BALLS and later returned to claim the body.
When he returns, his life falls apart.

Did I miss it?

"When gold was discovered in California in 1848, Snively, then living in Corpus Christi, turned his interests over to his brother David and crossed northern Mexico in 1849, to sail from Mazatlán to the gold fields of California. He searched for gold there until 1858, when he moved to Arizona Territory, where he discovered the "Placers of the Gila" on the Gila River some twenty-four miles east of Yuma. He was also involved in the discovery of the Castle Dome silver mines in Yuma County and took a leading role in organizing the district in conjunction with Hermann V. Ehrenberg[SUP]qv[/SUP]. After the first territorial election in Arizona, Governor John Noble Goodwin appointed Snively judge of Precinct Two of Council District Two. In the second half of the 1860s Snively prospected in New Mexico and Nevada, where he alternately found and lost small fortunes. Snively was exploring a route from the site of present-day Phoenix, near which he was then living, when his group was attacked by an estimated 150 Apache Indians at the White Picacho, a noted landmark near Wickenburg, Arizona, on March 27, 1871. Snively was mortally wounded and abandoned by his companions. His body, badly decomposed and partially devoured by wild animals, was buried near the sandy arroyo where it fell. His remains were exhumed eight years later and re-interred near the mining settlement of Gillett, Arizona."

View attachment 1182016
Swilling betrayed Magnus.

View attachment 1182023

​

"Just when Jack Swilling first visited the Salt River Valley isn't known. His experiences with the Gila Rangers in the winter of 1859-60, the Confederate scouting party in 1862, the Walker Party in 1863 and carrying the mail in 1866 and 1867 brought him into the southwestern part of the Valley.

That is where the Salt River flows into the Gila River southwest of Phoenix. At that time, signs of the Valley's former occupants (signs found in all of central Arizona) were seen everywhere."

 

[sdcfia]

I am thinking.... Between those events, Swilling's good friend from the Gila City and Pinos Altos gold-discovery days, Col. Jacob Snively, was killed by Indians near White Picacho northwest of Phoenix.

​

​

​You nailed it - Jacob Snively, another Dutchman.

 

[Hal Croves]

[/CENTER]​You nailed it - Jacob Snively, another Dutchman.

I will be honest with you and expose a weakness. I am not able to place John Jackson Tumlinson in Arizona and only have him taking up with the men from the Arizona Rangers after they returned to Texas.

If I discover that he did ride with Hunter or some other group in 61, then I will be absolutely floored.

A pattern seems to be forming.
Perhaps its as simple as coming home to something familiar or as complicated as searching for or protecting something important.
Who can say?
Southern Arizona was sympathetic to the Confederacy.

View attachment 1182045
​

"Felix Winchester Magee, Sargent of Company B, Madison's 3rd Texas Cavalry, Arizona Brigade. AMAZINGLY, I once owned this tintype but donated it to The Star of The Republic Museum at Washington on the Brazos, having no idea that Felix Magee had fought under my great-great grandfather."

the NAVASOTA CURRENT: Search results for Sargent of Company B, Madison's 3rd Texas Cavalry, Arizona Brigade

 

[Hal Croves]

Starman1,
I can see a grin on your face from where I am sitting.