A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

[Ol' Kentuck]

Thank goodness the arguement is starting to die off.....BUT, as far as the archaeologists versus the treasure hunter, make no mistake, they prefer treasure hunters end up in jail. Just ask the poor guy from Delta, Utah, that a few years back said he had found a cache of stolen calvary gold. No one will ever know if there was any truth to it, because the BLM and other feds raised thier heads. He ended up saying that it was all a myth, just to stay out of the pokey.....If the US treasure trove laws were changed appropriately to make sure the finder had a say in the find, you would see far more treasure finds in the news. Both the THunter and the feds would benefit. It is an all or nothing deal at the present, so it makes for under the table dealings. Similar to the good old dinosaur bone hunting laws that are so freakin' archaic that it borders on the ridiculous. (I know, personal experience in the mess, that I won't go in to unless prompted) Until a senator or congressman gets of their rear ends and looks the problem straight in the eye...it will continue. Treasure hunters should be praised for thier hard work, research, and 100's of thousands of dollars invested, instead of being ridiculed.
Done, nuff said.....I hesitate to put up any more photos because I have become afraid of the boogeyman hiding on the Tnet somewhere. Call it paranoia, but it's just common sense....
Back to lurking....

I liked yer post because ye nailed it purty much, our antiquity laws in this here country and the Archies appointed to enforce 'em make it hard for us to justify our hard work and research. On tha other hand, I reckon they do have a proper greivance with the treasure hunters who think they are above the law and dig up ever rock pile in the country ( and encouragin' everone else to do tha same ), givin' the rest of us a bad name. I reckon the laws need ta be changed afore we can get any relief, but that ain't gonna happen any time soon or even atall if we keep giving 'em reasons not to. If'n there truly are treasures all over the place like some believe, then they ought to concentrate on workin' together ta find a solution. Not keep giving the rest of us a black eye and ruinin' our chances of ever seein' a recovery in tha future.

 

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[cyzak]

if you have a pic please post it. I can pm you and help!

Here was the one the old man gave me it was taken about 15 years before I took my pictures this is what started all this for my expedition.View attachment 1622317

 

[cyzak]

Great monument....do you know the reason for the different grass growth in from of the monument on the other side of the creek....It doesn't appear to be a natural old floway for the creek. Manmade? It is also interesting that the only lone pine growing in these meadows sits in front of your monument..

Believe me I wish I could share a lot of this here with you fine people but it took me 6 years just to get were I am at now. I have never divulged any of this info that I have collected. But when I read sandy1 thread I said cyzak there is a man that can help me out with his knowledge and actually cares about what we do and is willing to share his knowledge.

 

[ancient_ghost2004]

Here was the one the old man gave me it was taken about 15 years before I took my pictures this is what started all this for my expedition.View attachment 1622317

I private messaged you buddy. I’ll help you. No hidden motives from my end

 

[cyzak]

Yes Cyzak, if you live in western Colorado you might find Randy's thread interesting.

I have read it and I now the tail well I have been there a many a time on that damn mountain I used to live in Pagosa Springs. I like Randy B he is a straight shooter he is into actual facts guy he does a lot of work with the AHRF Bart J is a good guy to I watch a lot of there commentary on the Spaniards.

 

[mdog]

View attachment 1621925
Here is some information that I am going to share this is from actual factual recovery on a private land site. I am not affiliated with this group but it is very interesting should put to rest what the nay sayers think that hover over this thread. The SENTINELS believe the Spanish never came out of Mexico into the USA or basically UTAH and COLORADO were never in habited by them.

Here's something interesting from this article. It says Rivera might have reached the area of Delta, Co. which would have put him close to the Redoubt Site.



Many historians believe Rivera reached as farwest as present day Delta, Colorado. This would
put Rivera’s expedition about fteen Spanishleagues south of the rst of the seven fabled cities
that were listed on the Dieder Robert de Vougon-
dy map published in 1772

 

[sdcfia]

Thank goodness the arguement is starting to die off.....BUT, as far as the archaeologists versus the treasure hunter, make no mistake, they prefer treasure hunters end up in jail. Just ask the poor guy from Delta, Utah, that a few years back said he had found a cache of stolen calvary gold. No one will ever know if there was any truth to it, because the BLM and other feds raised thier heads. He ended up saying that it was all a myth, just to stay out of the pokey.....If the US treasure trove laws were changed appropriately to make sure the finder had a say in the find, you would see far more treasure finds in the news. Both the THunter and the feds would benefit. It is an all or nothing deal at the present, so it makes for under the table dealings. Similar to the good old dinosaur bone hunting laws that are so freakin' archaic that it borders on the ridiculous. (I know, personal experience in the mess, that I won't go in to unless prompted) Until a senator or congressman gets of their rear ends and looks the problem straight in the eye...it will continue. Treasure hunters should be praised for thier hard work, research, and 100's of thousands of dollars invested, instead of being ridiculed.
Done, nuff said.....I hesitate to put up any more photos because I have become afraid of the boogeyman hiding on the Tnet somewhere. Call it paranoia, but it's just common sense....
Back to lurking....

I believe it may have more to do with historical and cultural recoveries than straight out "treasure" recoveries. I've got two or three acquaintances who went to the big house for a spell because they were caught recovering Mimbres artifacts on public land. These guys are avid amateur historians and collectors who know more than the pros do or ever will. Those Mimbres bowls are quite valuable, and guess who these guys' best customers were (are) for the items they didn't want to keep? Archies who were too lazy and stupid to figure out where the ruins might be located themselves were their regular buyers. Hush, hush, you know. And outraged denial later. Many ranch families in SW New Mexico have a museum-worthy artifact collection from finds made generations ago, but today if you get caught picking up an arrowhead, you're potentially in trouble. No matter what your target is, if it's on public land, you're at risk.

"Treasure" hunters' targets are often on private land where deals can be and have been negotiated with landowners. Anyone fortunate enough to have made a recovery needs to know that they are better off keeping quiet about it because if the public becomes aware of a find, somebody will hire a lawyer to dispute ownership. If this can be avoided, the next hurdle is the tax man. You are correct - laws like they have in England would be a win-win-win here for the hunter, academians and the government. Don't expect a change anytime soon.

 

[sdcfia]

Great monument....do you know the reason for the different grass growth in from of the monument on the other side of the creek....It doesn't appear to be a natural old floway for the creek. Manmade? It is also interesting that the only lone pine growing in these meadows sits in front of your monument..

"Lone Pine" is a possible important signal (code word), especially if it's a name for a townsite, mine, creek, etc.

 

[cyzak]

I private messaged you buddy. I’ll help you. No hidden motives from my end

Thank you for your knowledge on this I have struggled with it for many years just finding the monument site was and experience I will never forget.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

I believe it may have more to do with historical and cultural recoveries than straight out "treasure" recoveries. I've got two or three acquaintances who went to the big house for a spell because they were caught recovering Mimbres artifacts on public land. These guys are avid amateur historians and collectors who know more than the pros do or ever will. Those Mimbres bowls are quite valuable, and guess who these guys' best customers were (are) for the items they didn't want to keep? Archies who were too lazy and stupid to figure out where the ruins might be located themselves were their regular buyers. Hush, hush, you know. And outraged denial later. Many ranch families in SW New Mexico have a museum-worthy artifact collection from finds made generations ago, but today if you get caught picking up an arrowhead, you're potentially in trouble. No matter what your target is, if it's on public land, you're at risk.

"Treasure" hunters' targets are often on private land where deals can be and have been negotiated with landowners. Anyone fortunate enough to have made a recovery needs to know that they are better off keeping quiet about it because if the public becomes aware of a find, somebody will hire a lawyer to dispute ownership. If this can be avoided, the next hurdle is the tax man. You are correct - laws like they have in England would be a win-win-win here for the hunter, academians and the government. Don't expect a change anytime soon.

And that there is a Fact.

Somewhere back in this thread one of Sandy's followers accused a poster of "not livin in the Real world" and not bein "warm and fuzzy".
Heres yer Reality. Warm and fuzzy enuff fer ye?


ARCHEOLOGICAL RESOURCES PROTECTION ACT
(This Act became law on October 31, 1979 )

SECTION 6
16 U.S.C. 470

(a) No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resource located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit issued under section 470cc of [title 16] [section 4 of this Act], a permit referred to in section 470cc(h)(2) of [title 16] [section 4(h)(2) of this Act] or the exemption contained in section 470cc(g)(1) of [title 16] [section 4(g)(1) of this Act].

(b) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange any archaeological resource if such resource was excavated or removed from public lands or Indian lands in violation of–
(1) the prohibition contained in subsection (a) of this section, or
(2) any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under any other provision of Federal law.

(c) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange, in interstate of foreign commerce, any archaeological resource excavated, removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported, or received in violation of any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under State or local law.

(d) PENALTIES - ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY VIOLATES, OR COUNSELS, PROCURES, SOLICITS, OR EMPLOYS ANY OTHER PERSON TO VIOLATE, any prohibition contained in subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this section shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both: Provided, however, That if the commercial or archaeological value of the archaeological resources involved and the cost of restoration and repair of such resources exceeds the sum of $500, such person shall be fined not more than $20,000 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. In the case of a second or subsequent such violation upon conviction such person shall be fined not more than $100,000, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


SECTION 7
16 U.S.C. 470

Hearings:

The Federal land manager MAY ISSUE SUBPOENAS for the attendance and testimony of witnesses and the production of relevant papers, books, and documents, and administer oaths.

Witnesses summoned shall be paid the same fees and mileage that are paid to witnesses in the courts of the United States. In case of contumacy or refusal to obey a subpoena served upon any person pursuant to this paragraph, the district court of the United States for any district in which such person is found or resides or transacts business, upon application by the United States and after notice to such person, shall have jurisdiction to issue an order requiring such person to appear and give testimony before the Federal land manager or to appear and produce documents before the Federal land manager, or both, and any failure to obey such order of the court may be punished by such court as a contempt thereof.


SECTION 8
16 U.S.C. 470

Rewards:

(a) Upon the certification of the Federal land manager concerned, the Secretary of the Treasury is directed to pay from penalties and fines collected under sections 470ee and 470ff of [title 16] [section 6 and 7 of this Act] an amount equal to one-half of such penalty or fine, but not to exceed $500, TO ANY PERSON WHO FURNISHES INFORMATION WHICH LEADS TO THE FINDINGS OF A CIVIL VIOLATION, or the conviction of criminal violation, with respect to which such penalty or fine was paid. If several persons provided such information, such amount shall be divided among such persons. No officer or employee of the United States or of any State or local government who furnishes information or renders service in the performance of his official duties shall be eligible for payment under this subsection.

Forfeitures:

(b) All archaeological resources with respect to which a violation of subsection (a), (b), or (c) of section 470ee of [title 16] [section 6 of this Act] occurred and which are in the possession of any person, and ALL VEHICLES AND EQUIPMENT of any person which were used in connection with such violation, may be (in the discretion of the court or administrative law judge, as the case may be) SUBJECT TO FORFEITURE to the United States upon–
(1) such person’s conviction of such violation under section 470ee of [title 16] [section 6 of this Act],
(2) assessment of a civil penalty against such person under section 470ff of [title 16] [section 7 of this Act] with respect to such violation, or
(3) a determination by any court that such archaeological resources, vehicles, or equipment were involved in such violation.

 

[cyzak]

And that there is a Fact. FONT3646TRACK

Somewhere back in this thread one of Sandy's followers accused a poster of "not livin in the Real world" and not bein "warm and fuzzy".
Heres yer Reality. Warm and fuzzy enuff fer ye?


ARCHEOLOGICAL RESOURCES PROTECTION ACT
(This Act became law on October 31, 1979 )

SECTION 6
16 U.S.C. 470

(a) No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resource located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit issued under section 470cc of [title 16] [section 4 of this Act], a permit referred to in section 470cc(h)(2) of [title 16] [section 4(h)(2) of this Act] or the exemption contained in section 470cc(g)(1) of [title 16] [section 4(g)(1) of this Act].

(b) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange any archaeological resource if such resource was excavated or removed from public lands or Indian lands in violation of–
(1) the prohibition contained in subsection (a) of this section, or
(2) any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under any other provision of Federal law.

(c) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange, in interstate of foreign commerce, any archaeological resource excavated, removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported, or received in violation of any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under State or local law.

(d) PENALTIES - ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY VIOLATES, OR COUNSELS, PROCURES, SOLICITS, OR EMPLOYS ANY OTHER PERSON TO VIOLATE, any prohibition contained in subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this section shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both: Provided, however, That if the commercial or archaeological value of the archaeological resources involved and the cost of restoration and repair of such resources exceeds the sum of $500, such person shall be fined not more than $20,000 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. In the case of a second or subsequent such violation upon conviction such person shall be fined not more than $100,000, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


SECTION 7
16 U.S.C. 470

Hearings:

The Federal land manager MAY ISSUE SUBPOENAS for the attendance and testimony of witnesses and the production of relevant papers, books, and documents, and administer oaths.

Witnesses summoned shall be paid the same fees and mileage that are paid to witnesses in the courts of the United States. In case of contumacy or refusal to obey a subpoena served upon any person pursuant to this paragraph, the district court of the United States for any district in which such person is found or resides or transacts business, upon application by the United States and after notice to such person, shall have jurisdiction to issue an order requiring such person to appear and give testimony before the Federal land manager or to appear and produce documents before the Federal land manager, or both, and any failure to obey such order of the court may be punished by such court as a contempt thereof.


SECTION 8
16 U.S.C. 470

Rewards:

(a) Upon the certification of the Federal land manager concerned, the Secretary of the Treasury is directed to pay from penalties and fines collected under sections 470ee and 470ff of [title 16] [section 6 and 7 of this Act] an amount equal to one-half of such penalty or fine, but not to exceed $500, TO ANY PERSON WHO FURNISHES INFORMATION WHICH LEADS TO THE FINDINGS OF A CIVIL VIOLATION, or the conviction of criminal violation, with respect to which such penalty or fine was paid. If several persons provided such information, such amount shall be divided among such persons. No officer or employee of the United States or of any State or local government who furnishes information or renders service in the performance of his official duties shall be eligible for payment under this subsection.

Forfeitures:

(b) All archaeological resources with respect to which a violation of subsection (a), (b), or (c) of section 470ee of [title 16] [section 6 of this Act] occurred and which are in the possession of any person, and ALL VEHICLES AND EQUIPMENT of any person which were used in connection with such violation, may be (in the discretion of the court or administrative law judge, as the case may be) SUBJECT TO FORFEITURE to the United States upon–
(1) such person’s conviction of such violation under section 470ee of [title 16] [section 6 of this Act],
(2) assessment of a civil penalty against such person under section 470ff of [title 16] [section 7 of this Act] with respect to such violation, or
(3) a determination by any court that such archaeological resources, vehicles, or equipment were involved in such violation.

TRACK8=10
Really you think that we all here have not read the gestapo's agenda you are on TNet your popularity rating is not going to be tolerated to well here. Please move on all that this thread is about is educating others in the knowledge of and individual who is willing to share there experiences which does not happen often sandy1.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Sorry feller, I'd post it in Braille if'n I could.

Good luck with yer lessons.

 

[sandy1]

Lol, still pushing that legal agenda in order to keep people away from the treasures, I guess your considered the Internet Police.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Thank goodness the arguement is starting to die off.....BUT, as far as the archaeologists versus the treasure hunter, make no mistake, they prefer treasure hunters end up in jail. Just ask the poor guy from Delta, Utah, that a few years back said he had found a cache of stolen calvary gold. No one will ever know if there was any truth to it, because the BLM and other feds raised thier heads. He ended up saying that it was all a myth, just to stay out of the pokey..... If the US treasure trove laws were changed appropriately to make sure the finder had a say in the find, you would see far more treasure finds in the news. Both the THunter and the feds would benefit. . It is an all or nothing deal at the present, so it makes for under the table dealings. Similar to the good old dinosaur bone hunting laws that are so freakin' archaic that it borders on the ridiculous. (I know, personal experience in the mess, that I won't go in to unless prompted) Until a senator or congressman gets off their rear ends and looks the problem straight in the eye...it will continue. Treasure hunters should be praised for thier hard work, research, and 100's of thousands of dollars invested, instead of being ridiculed.
Done, nuff said.....I hesitate to put up any more photos because I have become afraid of the boogeyman hiding on the Tnet somewhere. Call it paranoia, but it's just common sense....
Back to lurking....

Exactly, their part would likely put a dent in the National Debt.
Unfortunately, it seems like that's just what some don't want.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

And that there is a Fact.

Somewhere back in this thread one of Sandy's followers accused a poster of "not livin in the Real world" and not bein "warm and fuzzy".
Heres yer Reality. Warm and fuzzy enuff fer ye?

It's your blatant ARROGANCE that is the real turn off here, not
referring to the truth, or the actual facts that was actually being discussed,
rather than taking comments out of context, to make your argumentive point.

Was talking to mdog about what the archies will or will not do with info given to
them & you know it. Keeping the subject & facts straight, would be more genuine.

 

[mdog]

"Lone Pine" is a possible important signal (code word), especially if it's a name for a townsite, mine, creek, etc.

That’s a good observation made by Bonuntr and a good point made by Sdcfia.

 

[cyzak]

sandy1 will elevation affect my capturing a aura I am at about 10,000 feet altitude and I know your down in the desert region a little lower altitude day time temp about 65.

 

[sandy1]

sandy1 will elevation affect my capturing a aura I am at about 10,000 feet altitude and I know your down in the desert region a little lower altitude day time temp about 65.

Absolutely not as long as there is sunshine your good to go.

 

[sandy1]

I think it could be interesting to see if an aura were to come off Victorio Peak or baboquivari Peak both are known to have treasures on them, I hope your catching my drift here cyzak.

 

[mdog]

Sandy, have you ever heard rumors of silver coins being recovered at sites like what you describe. The Mexicans used to move a lot of silver coins north to buy goods.