2011 DUTCH HUNTERS RENDEZVOUS

[cactusjumper]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Hal,

A few years ago I put this map together of bb's location. If it's not exact......it's very close:

I doubt that Crawford drew a map to this particular dig. It's so close and easy to reach, that it would be flooded with lookie-loos and people with bad intentions. My guess is that it is just a story that he put our there for increasing his stature among the local treasure hunters.

There are a number of treasures said to be buried in this portion of the Superstitions.

Joe

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Bill: Yes pyro chemical assaying in this case is just the standard fire assay using more appropriate chemicals and iron nails. There are several patented mixtures for this.

I just overhauled and re calibrated the old Elmer - Perkins AA that we had. But still used the standard fire assay for the Au. Ag. I became a sort of ghoul running down all of the dead cow in the area for their bones to make my cupelles.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[BILL96]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Don,
How about a brief description of your method of turning a cow bone into cupella

Thanks,
Bill

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Bill,

Since a cupel is a small, porus cup, I would imagine he just carves it out of old cow bones.

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

G'morning Bill, Jose: Fairly simple I just cleaned the dried meat etc away from the bones as well as I could, then put them in a bonfire until they were relatively soft, chalky. I then ground them up to a coarse powder, made a damp mixture of the powder with distilled water, packed it into a home made mould of heavy plastic pipe - about 1 1/2 in dia and 2 " high - then put the cup shaped plunger of metal on top and whopped it with a heavy hammer 2 - 3 times to compress it. I tried to be similar each time to keep the porosity fairly constant.

Since we were fairly remote, I had to improvise, build, or rebuild most of my equipment at first, from tongs , oven, cuppels, etc..

For silica, I used clean, sifted, and pretested sand from the arroyo.

Even used old pop and beer cans trying for an Aluminum reduction from my Merrill Cr owe pregnant solution. When I finally developed a Zinc source, I dropped the Aluminum.

Carbon was the usual way.

Incidentally charcoal that has been used in a furnace or for the recovery process will drive a detector wild. The internal tube structure will be covered with a film of Gold or /Silver. So always check any carbon that you may find in an old mining site.

I had an old Kahn electronic balance, but it had been damaged, so until I rebuilt and re calibrated it, I used the old fashioned Mechanical assayers balance.

Later, I had a bit of spare time, so I tackled the ''Perkins - Elmer' Atomic Absorption unit, which required taking it apart, thoroughly cleaning, rebuilding some parts, reassembly, then recalibrating. T'was a bit of a headache, but fun.

Seems like everything that I had to use, was either broken or damaged, a cram course on rebuilding etc., assay equipment.

Anything else my friends?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Don,
I am sure that you know a lot more about assaying than I do, I had just never heard of this "pyrochemical" process being used in assaying gold/platinum, is it a real deal?. and from what I remember the samples in question were also asssayed in a conventional manner by US Bureau of mines and another company in Tucson that I forgot the name of and the values reported were "negligible".
The whole Ramstar affair struck me a another scam.

Bill

There are some very good ways to analyze samples for platinum content - it would have been (would be) very simple to take a sample that Crawford analyzed by his technique and completely digest it and analyze it by traditional instrumental means and determine if his method was accurate or not.

My guess is there were interferences with his technique that identified something as platinum when it was in reality not.

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

I had a great time at the Rendezvous although as usual it was impossible to meet everyone and get in on every conversation I wanted to along the way. It also didn't help that I completely missed Friday night due to an overzealous hiking plan.

For those folks I didn't get a chance to meet, I hope to do so next year. For those I did meet but didn't make enough time to sit down and talk, I apologize - just too much to do and far too little time to get it done in. And for those old friends I saw, it was good to see you again.

I returned home from sunny and hot AZ to over a foot of snow, no power, no heat and my neighbor cut our TV/internet cable in half and ripped it off the side of our house when he plowed our driveway. I hope to get some photos of some of my adventures later this week or weekend, but lots to do right now and I may not get it done as soon as I'd like.

I can say that I have some REALLY GOOD photos of a good size mountain lion to post, and I now know not only what a rattlesnake rattle sounds like, but I also can recognize the low rumble and snarl of a big cat in the wild.

 

[Loke]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

I had a blast at the rendez-vous! So, a most greatful 'thank-you' to everyone that made it happen!
I must apologize for being 'invisible' most of sat evening - that's what 36 hours of constant traveling does to one :-(
I woke up on sunday morning feeling I had been on a week-long binge - on nearer investigation - 3 beers! (yup - a cheap thrill!!)

I most certainly will be back and hope to interact with a lot more of you good folks - so until then - thank yall ever so much!

Per

 

[somehiker]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Well,I can certainly second all that has been said about this year's Rendezvous by Paul and others who attended.It was by far the largest and most informative of those I have made it down for.Met many old and new friends and logged many hours in conversation,time very well spent,and I may just decide to spend both Friday and Saturday "in camp" next year.
It was a real treat to be able to get out with Paul for a couple of exploratory hikes and I wish that I had been along for his face-off with the Mountain Lion.We had investigated a lion kill site/burial the previous day which may have belonged to the same cat.Paw prints were about 5" across and the cat had dragged the deer up onto a large boulder,before covering it with dirt/grass at the base of the same boulder.The arrowhead he found was beaut...one of the best that I have ever seen.We also got a number of good photos of the excavations,as well as gps locations for each.The solitary small hill near the highway has been cut down considerably since I was last out there,and the grass that covered the area is now non-existent,having been burned off.
Tim and I did a twelve hour hike to the "bat cave". We were able to get within a mile or so by using Tim's two seat four wheeler,but from there it was difficult and slow going.The lower 24'- 2 pc. welded steel portion of the ladder has been removed,but the upper 100+ ft. of wooden ladder still remains.It goes straight up into a large crack in the bluff,where it disappears into the darkness.There also appears to be scaffolding built to one side.Looks to be all cedar...not spruce,weathered but still sound.It was not a pleasant place to visit,mainly due to the immense amount of dry bat guano.The guano,like a huge sand dune,spilled out of the 100 yard wide opening and downslope at least 200 ft.It fills your boots as you walk and the dust and smell is overpowering.
We both took lots of pictures and I will post a few more later,along with comments.
This 5x telephoto shot from right hand side of the large opening.....looking wayyy up.
The second is looking across the guano dune at Tim (beentheredonethat).

Regards:SH.
Regards:SH.

 

[somehiker]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

With both optical and digital zoom maxed out.
Top of the ladder.

 

[somehiker]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Last photos tonight.
Tim going to the right to check out a large opening/crack.
A free-hand climb to the top might begin there....ledges and handholds slanting upwards.
Note the rubble which appears to be continually falling from above,laying on top of the guano deposit.
The original wooden lower section of the ladder was smashed to splinters by such rockfalls.
Could be why it was replaced by a welded steel ladder.
The steel sections have been dragged downslope a ways.

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Great photos Somehiker - glad you and Tim got out to the cave even though you couldn't get up into it. That bat poop can carry some really nasty diseases when it gets dusty and you inhale it, so hopefully you didn't get around too much of it.

Here's a couple photos of the mountain lion I saw.

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Nice Paul... I guess grabbing the camera was about all you had to shot with? Looks like she was sizing you up to see if you were a meal !! Good idea to never run so you dont appear as pray... Can you post a pic of the arrow head

Tim

 

[natchitoches]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

omg wow
somehiker, you really found something big i fell it.
someone when to a whole lot of work to build that.
know telling what could be up there.
a old hideout?, ldm?, a old moutaion man home?
a old chuch?.
i would love to see whats up there.
why whould you go to all that work for?

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Sorry I never got to meet you Tim - not sure where I was at the time, but we'll get together next year hopefully.

 

[sgtfda]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

The lions in that area have had a taste of human flesh. We are food. Never alone and packing is my rule.
Cub I sent you a pm

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Wayne,

The bat cave you found was commercially worked back in the 20's. Because of the dust that has settled on the guano, as well as the dried guano created dust, exploring the cave is very dangerous. At the very least, you should be using high quality breathing equipment.

I doubt there is anything of archaeological interest inside, as there was extensive exploration of the cave when it was being worked. The "spill" you showed in your picture, was likely the results of the mining operation.

If you decide to explore farther, please take every precaution. IMHO, walking away from it would be the best course of action.....

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

By the way - Coronado Mesa looked like the southeastern half (at least) was hit with a fire sometime in the last year - It was like walking across a mars landscape with black charred cactus and mesquite. The northwestern half didn't look like it got hit.

Anyone living out there know of a fire that hit that mesa fairly recently?

 

[somehiker]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Wayne,

The bat cave you found was commercially worked back in the 20's. Because of the dust that has settled on the guano, as well as the dried guano created dust, exploring the cave is very dangerous. At the very least, you should be using high quality breathing equipment.

I doubt there is anything of archaeological interest inside, as there was extensive exploration of the cave when it was being worked. The "spill" you showed in your picture, was likely the results of the mining operation.

If you decide to explore farther, please take every precaution. IMHO, walking away from it would be the best course of action.....

Take care,

Joe

Joe:
I had a professional quality respirator along with the proper hepa filters for guano in my backpack.If we had stayed for a longer period of time,or kicked up more dust,I would have used it.If I was to go in,having seen what is there,I would also want a face mask and suit.....and high top boots.
Don't know about the work done in the 20's....sources or documentation ?...but if someone wanted guano,there must be a few hundred tons of it at ground level.A ladder seems a poor manner of access for a commercial mining enterprise and judging by the materials and trash left on site it appears that some group has been working the upper cave,off and on,for some time.What I suspected was netting was in fact 10ga galvanized wire which may have been wrapped around and used for raising/lowering large equipment or objects.Older and rusted maleable iron wire of about the same size lay in tangled coils downslope. Similar wire,both older and new, was strung from the area at the top of the ladder down to the canyon floor on a diagonal path.A twisted double strand of older wire,with a noose at the end hung about twenty feet downward from a house sized boulder in the creek bed.....odd.Nylon webbing has been used fairly recently to add stability to the ladder and Tim found a recently discarded common dust mask near the bottom of the ladder.Despite the near vertical pitch of the back wall,something heavy enough had been raised to or lowered from the cavity above,so as to scrape the hard crust from the rock.That is where the light brown vertical streaks appear.
The upper cave appears to be similar to the faulted section that exists to the right hand of the grotto area.I will,some time in the future,look up above for evidence of another entrance.
What do you know about activities in the large cave below? This cave cannot be seen until at the entrance and one must climb down into it.
The "spill" is ongoing,with the surface layer un-degraded(freshly deposited).

Regards:Wayne

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: 2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Wayne,

My source, like many of my other posts, is about as good as it gets.

There is a current market for small amounts of bat guano. I suppose when you get back inside, you will be able to tell if the money that was expended would be worthwhile for todays, small consumer, to pay a reasonable profit for.

Don't know anything about the lower cave.

Good luck,

Joe