200 yrs old? Pirate? Native? Or religious? Any hidden meaning? Treasure map?

Joecoins

Joecoins

Hero Member
Mar 21, 2016
877
807
PEI
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ace 250
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All Treasure Hunting
Hello,
I have something real special,
Purchased at a fleamarket in quebec.
It was literaly tangled with a bunch of stuff and i had to cut some other peices to get it loose from the pile.

I need help finding out its purpose and significance.
Please take a look at the photos ,its worth it!
I included a photo with important notes i have made on the peice.
Thanks in advance.
!!!!New and better photos, Beads page 8, Coins pg9.!!!!!
New photos again! Page 11
 

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i think someone mentioned stalks of wheat, next to jesus
a devout catholic tells me it is prob blood, i found this on bay
around it it says, ss crocifisso che si venera in genazzano
and translates to,: ss crucifix which is venerated in Genazzano
ran the english and the italian and got some stuff that led
to this church Convento S. Maria del Buon Consiglio - Genazzano (RM) [IT] - scheda su "Historia Augustiniana"
havent looked much more
bay link seller thinks it is 1800s
Antique RARE 1800 Copper Religious Medal Jesus Died on Cross Many Drops of Blood | eBay



s-l1600.jpg
 

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I wonder if someone used this medal to pray and that is why its so worn.
 

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I like the blood theory but looks alot move like wheat/grain to me,
I actualy did seek out and speak with a preist here in pei.
I was told to see him by an antique dealer.
If it was a religious made medal of anysort and age he could tell me everything about it. It was his opinion this wasnt made by any of the churches.
 

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The medal you found is reproducable from a mold and many were probably made,
All evidence seems to point to my medal beign unique hand made cast and carved/stamped
 

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Wow thats pretty awsome, i need to try and find this german book online!! Anyone speak german knows what that says or what the contents of the book is? Im guna start looking into it
 

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Joecoins said:
The medal you found is reproducable from a mold and many were probably made,
All evidence seems to point to my medal beign unique hand made cast and carved/stamped
Click to expand...
The medal he found on ebay was machine stamped and mass produced but i think he was just showing the blood. but i agree yours doesnt exactly look like blood drops.
 

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German book is the history of rosaries and worship?
Do you think it portrays only german crosses or ?
 

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Closest library is massachusetts, then newyork,
I doubt theyd send it to me in PEI Canada
Im looking for an online version free, also id have to translate german , would be easier on the computer
 

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Ok big news!!!!!!!
The fourth coin is a Ecuador 2 real!!!!
Date between, 1833-1836, silver finess .66,
diameter 25mm.
The lower finess could explain why it is more worn down.
This further supports the fact that this item has not been re strung, and that there is a story in the peice!!!
All the coins are from the same geographic area of the inca empire!
The coins are placed in sequence by date, 1773,1784,1795,1833
The coins travel from south to North!
Perhaps the owners moved north from the heart of the empire over the decades! From Bolivia to Peru to Ecuador!
 

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Joecoins said:
Ok big news!!!!!!!
The fourth coin is a Ecuador 2 real!!!!
Date between, 1833-1836, silver finess .66,
diameter 25mm.
The lower finess could explain why it is more worn down.
This further supports the fact that this item has not been re strung, and that there is a story in the peice!!!
All the coins are from the same geographic area of the inca empire!
The coins are placed in sequence by date, 1773,1784,1795,1833
The coins travel from south to North!
Perhaps the owners moved north from the heart of the empire over the decades! From Bolivia to Peru to Ecuador!
Click to expand...
Thats great that you IDed the mystery coin. It also means the item, as you found it, cannot have been assembled earlier than 1833, ruling out the Incas in the Spanish colonial period, as Ecuador's independence from colonial rule was in 1822. I also think less silver percentage would make the coin harder. The coins were probably strung on the beads after being in circulation for years, judging by the wear. That would push the assembly date even later. The dates spread at least 60 years apart and are from 3 different South American countries. I would have to come to the conclusion that the coins were just picked at random and have no meaning. There is no doubt the coins are real and I would have purchased the item for the value of the coins myself so i would have had nothing to lose and possibly much to gain.. Thats the fun of flea markets and yard sales and i have been both the buyer and the seller for many years and i know many of the tricks used. Knowing more about this purchase would be very helpful.

I'm a latecomer and havent studied the beads but i will when i get a better signal. It bothers me that the brass beads have such an even color. If it laid untouched for 100 years somewhere or in constant human sweat and oils, in a non- air conditioned Ecuadorian tropical environment, I would expect to see uneven stains and patina. Its unbelievable how quickly metal corrodes even here in a South Florida swamp. The coins show extreme wear, even damage, not shown on the beads. Right now its not looking too good that the coins and beads were strung by the original artisan. Now that the coins are identified, I would concentrate on studying the beads and trying to find a match of the brass medal or the tool punch that was used to make it..

It looks more like a gaudy necklace than any kind of rosary. But as someone said, it was probably restrung and the beads very well may have come off a unique old handmade rosary or colonial item. I tried to read through some of the wild imaginative speculation without chuckling (one bead for each pirate ship sunk) and at this point its still unidentified but you know more than you did when you purchased it. Im still hoping for you, no hater here. I wouldnt rule out Native American and the mystery is definitely not over.
 

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OK I'm almost done reading it and I agree the beads look to have been bent and fabricated on a mandrel. I need to caution that there are many items crudely made today the old fashioned way or made to look old and mandrels are still used today by jewelers. The coins are IDed, the string and beads too perhaps. The medal seems to be the last item. I see some discoloration near the loop. Could this have been caused when the loop was brazed on? Does the medal and beads seem to be the same alloy?
 

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Bigcypresshunter said:
OK I'm almost done reading it and I agree the beads look to have been pounded on a mandrel. The coins are IDed, the string and beads too perhaps. The medal seems to be the last item. I see dome discoloration near the loop. Could this have been caused when the loop was brazed on?
Click to expand...

AND... hand carved.
These designs were not made by "mold" etc.
They were carved IMO.
 

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Well my new estatimate for date of final assembly is 1833-1860
After 1860 im pretty shure someone with this skill would be working silver.
So final assembly 1830-60, but there is a 61 year space in coins, so perhap its as old as 1770, and then years and years later the additionsal coins were added.
No noubt it was restringed a few times by the original maker as he aquired or made beads, didnt they use these things as wallets?
Also i find it hard to beleive all three mint marks with a age span of 60years was all found in equador, the wear would be alot different, and alot! Worse,
All the dates and mint locations and placements are in sequence. Perhaps it is so untarnished because it was well cared for, werent necklaces sacred items taken out and worn for ceremonies? Werent they also imbued with special magocal powers? Also about the tarnish maybe theres some silver or gold. If you wanted to hide gold for the benifit if you descendant etc how would you hide it? Maybe hide the gold in low concentration in the beads!
So maybe it started beign assembled around 1773 and finished around 1840, i still beleive the bead are much older than the assembly date.
 

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I beleive the medal was all cast in one peice,
There is no evidence of brazing the top loop,
I also beleive the medal was re carved, looks like the stamps and carving were done to an already worn medal
 

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Its a long story the purchase, but it will convince you lol
Ill type it up later
 

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