17 Tons of gold in New Mexico

[Old Bookaroo]

Pearless67:

There are a couple of Wells Fargo boxes in the Wells Fargo Bank Museum on Montgomery Street, San Francisco. They are about the size of an old-fashioned cardboard beer carton (24 bottles). More square than rectangular in shape, but that's about the right size.

If you ever visit San Francisco, be sure to visit the Wells Fargo Museum and the old Bank of California Museum (basement) on California Street. You will come away from both saying "Wow!" Gold coins and nuggest, guns, documents, these two have it all - the Wells Fargo History Room includes a stagecoach.

FYI - according to their records, there are just 3 boxes unaccounted for. In other words, most of the "Wells, Fargo" treasure boxes you may see scattered around the country (heck, around the world) are probably not "official issue."

Hope this helps!

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good evening bookaroo my friend: My grandfather used to prospect between Calif and Nevada in the late 1800's and early 1900's. He claimed that one day while investigating an area south of the "V" of the border between Calif & Nevada, in Nevada, he ran across several prospect shafts. In one he saw a Wells Fargo strong box, but since he didn't have a rope with him he decided to make another trip later Unfortunately, he never saw the box again. It was assumed that natural fall of had covered the box,

in any event, he himself ended up at the bottom of another prospect shaft, He had been killed with a rifle. His murders were never found./prosecuted, although one did come forward to claim a reward for the finding of the body. It was widely known that he had to have participated in the murder, since it was impossible to see the body from above.

So go get that box. Find out where the robbery took place and check all nearby prospect holes 60 ft deep then now,How?

Don Jose de la Mancha

 

[gollum]

These pics should give you an idea about the Wells Fargo Strongboxes. There are a few different styles.

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Pearless67:

There are a couple of Wells Fargo boxes in the Wells Fargo Bank Museum on Montgomery Street, San Francisco. They are about the size of an old-fashioned cardboard beer carton (24 bottles). More square than rectangular in shape, but that's about the right size.

If you ever visit San Francisco, be sure to visit the Wells Fargo Museum and the old Bank of California Museum (basement) on California Street. You will come away from both saying "Wow!" Gold coins and nuggest, guns, documents, these two have it all - the Wells Fargo History Room includes a stagecoach.

FYI - according to their records, there are just 3 boxes unaccounted for. In other words, most of the "Wells, Fargo" treasure boxes you may see scattered around the country (heck, around the world) are probably not "official issue."

Hope this helps!

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

Bookaroo, Thanks for the heads up, although I did visit SanFrancisco I never visited the wells fargo bank museum. Unfortunately when I went there I already had an appointment with the lady who looks after the mint records.
I did manage to visit the botanical gardens though and got some great shots of the bridge.
Besides I was based in Sacramento so it was easier and closer to visit Old Sacramento and the wells bank and old court house there.
The point of my question was, Noss managed to get the wells boxes out and the armor, so why risk a cave in by using dynamite.

PeErless67

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Peerless67:

One of the things about the Doc Noss "find" that has always troubled me is the combination of treasures he says were recovered. Everything from Spanish armour to Wells, Fargo treasure boxes - this cave seems to have had it all.

I have often wondered if this wasn't a scam. It is problematic that anything of value was really recovered. But even if it were, who is to say that Doc Noss didn't put it there himself in the first place?

Why do such a thing? Old Greenwood appears to have sent California '49'ers on the Gold Lake hunt for the pure pleasure of it. Perhaps Doc Noss was going to raise money for the recovery...and perhaps it was a falling out over the truth that lead to his demise.

This is strictly a theory. But it does explain some things that otherwise are pretty hard to understand - again, starting with all the remarkable items that seem to have found their way into that one cave...

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[allenroyboy]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket or a stickler, but it seems that a lot of this information would better on the Victorio Peak board. Anyone looking for this information would be hard pressed to know to look here to find it.

Allen

 

[gollum]

Allen,

Some people think that the two may be related.

Bookaroo,

Nothing strange about it. The two most likely origins of the VP cache were either accumulated loot from Apache Raids or Pancho Villa's Loot. Either way, there would have been stuff covering a span of hundreds of years.

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Bookaroo, I actually believe Noss' VP claims were exactly that "a scam"
I do believe he had in his possesion some armor some jewels some old documents and a few artifacts, I do not believe he had any large amount of gold although he may have had some.

Alen, the VP story concerns Noss, since Noss was an aquaintance of Holmdahl who was 100% involved in this story the two are linked.

Mike, your quote "Some people think that the two may be related."
I reckon if you go along to the library at Berkeley, and if you can charm one of the librarians and get access to folders 2 and 3 (listed below) you to may just come to the same conclusion, that is "the two may be related"
now ask yourself this, why these folders are "unavailiable for use"?

bancroft library uni of california at berkeley
Holmdahl papers

Emil Lewis Holmdahl papers, 1905-1958. <1905>
Author: Holmdahl, Emil Lewis, 1883-1964.
Format: Collection
Location(s): BANC: BANC MSS C-B 921; Contact Bancroft Library for availability.: 3 oversize folders in oversize drawers, unit A. Folders 2 and 3 unavailable for use; use BANC FILM 2243.

 

[gollum]

Gary,

I just happen to have a contact at The Bancroft! Got it while searching through stuff relating to Jesuits in Nueva Espana. Since H.E. Bolton was at Berkeley, all the Colonial Spanish Research Documents are there. I'll ask him if he can get me copies of folders 2 & 3. I'll let you know. Bancroft is currently undergoing some kind of move or restoration.

Best-Mike

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Peerless67:

The way I read that Bancroft Library citation, the materials in Folders 2 and 3 have been filmed. Researchers are to use the film and not the original documents.

This could be because the originals are delicate or otherwise in not good condition, it could be to prevent theft, it could be that the folders have been requested so often the Library doesn't want the originals over-used, or...

In other words, lots of reasons. And not all of them nefarious.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

gollum:

Thank you for the dandy photos of the Wells Fargo boxes.

I don't think that bottom one was a "treasure" box. Fill that puppy with anything much heavier than bedding and it would take four grown men to get it off the ground. Then the bottom would probably fall out! The stencil "Wells Fargo" could have been added anytime - or it could have been part of a shipping address that was painted on.

The first two boxes are certainly of the style that one can see in the Wells Fargo Bank museum. They are the right "under the driver's seat" size. As to whether they are original or not (I don't know where you got your photos) there are a heck of a lot more boxes floating around marked "Wells Fargo" than the Bank ever used. There has even been a cottage industry or two turning them out for sale. This is not a knock on the ones you pictured - again, I don't know where the photos were taken.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[gollum]

Bookie,

The big one is at some museum in California, while the other one is a repro of an actual one (notice the cheesy gold coins). All I did was Google "Wells Fargo Box". There are a few designs over the years.

As far as the Holmdahl Papers, I will find out soon. I just emailed my guy there.

I will say this regarding the Bancroft; when an old time treasure hunter died in the early 1960s, he had been working for the Bancroft. The library swooped into his apartment after his death, and grabbed all of his papers (which included several original Spanish Colonial Documents relating directly to treasure). When a family friend got access to the boxes in which his papers were stored, NONE of the Treasure Related Stuff was there.

Incidentally, not too long after that, a newspaper article saying that Gene Kelly (yes, THAT Gene Kelly) had been working with an anonymous treasure hunter, and had found some treasure in Peru. Nothing else was heard about the deal. He could have only gotten the info from someone at Bancroft, as he didn't know the treasure hunter.

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Peerless67:

The way I read that Bancroft Library citation, the materials in Folders 2 and 3 have been filmed. Researchers are to use the film and not the original documents.

This could be because the originals are delicate or otherwise in not good condition, it could be to prevent theft, it could be that the folders have been requested so often the Library doesn't want the originals over-used, or...

In other words, lots of reasons. And not all of them nefarious.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

You are correct Bookaroo, and as Mike will soon be able to confirm from his contact at Berkeley, there were some light fingered visitors.

 

[gollum]

Just got a reply to my email.

I can get copies of all three folders, as they are all on film now.

I didn't read the entire Holmdahl Book, but does it talk about when he was in Ft. Leavenworth for smuggling booze (five years I think)?

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Just got a reply to my email.

I can get copies of all three folders, as they are all on film now.

I didn't read the entire Holmdahl Book, but does it talk about when he was in Ft. Leavenworth for smuggling booze (five years I think)?

Best-Mike

He was in trouble many times Mike, and had some pretty serious charges. He had faced the firing squad on more than one occasion. It will be interesting to hear if the 19 page unfinished autobiography is among the now availiable folders, I was informed by Berkeley that it was not, and that the catelog shows items missing.

 

[Roadquest]

An unconfirmed report in1977 states that four large chest of gold bullion
were recoved from an area of Four Corners on the Navajo Indian Reservation.
Speculation is that it was part of the LUE Treasure.

I though sense we have VP and Poncho Villa possibly involved in the 17 Tons of gold in New Mexico
Could these four chest of gold, be related in some way.
Research is the most important part of a project. But, the research is useless, unless a ground
search is made. And I have done this. I have not found the 17 tons of gold. Nor, have I found a single
bar of the gold. But, On these searches. I have found things of interest to bring me back, for another
search.

I can't stress enough, if you have done your research, and you have a possible site that you believe the
gold is at. Go as soon as you can and search that site.

Clayton...Roadquest

 

[gollum]

Clayton,

Check out my post in the KGC Section. That article applies to your gold bullion.

Best-Mike

 

[Roadquest]

Thanks Mike, I have always said John Dean was a player in this.
The possibilities keep getting wider, as to who, or how the gold got there.

Clayton

 

[Peerless67]

I believe the 17 tons is, or was deposited well north of New Mexico, not in Utah.

I also think there is a good chance that the gold was flown into El Paso, and trucked

to it's distention.

Clayton, sorry I missed this post before. Although I am not sure wether the gold was flown into El Paso, I do believe it may have been trucked from the vacinity.

 

[allenroyboy]

Anyone else hear the rumor that Trabuco checked up every now and then to see if his treasure was still there??

Allen