17 Tons of gold in New Mexico

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hi mi Bestest Buddy Gullum: go to -->

http://www.naderlibrary.com/cia.soldierfortunetoc.htm

For the bestest reading ever. I couldn't put it down, neither will you. You will understand when you read it,. a common thread..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Later, in 1952, Secret Service Agents knocked on the door of his
Van Nuys home. It seems, the agents told Holmdahl, there was a
rumor that someone had smuggled $20,000,000 in gold ingots
across the Mexican border, and Holmdahl was the chief suspect. [17]
Holmdahl denied any knowledge of such a crime, but one wonders,
was the old soldier still involved with finding Villa's gold? The
investigation, however, was subsequently dropped.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[BILL96]

Very interesting reading. Men like that just don't come along much anymore, it would sure make a great movie script.

 

[Roadquest]

Mike. do you have anything on John Dean talking about the 17 tons of gold.
Not Victorie Peak.

 

[Peerless67]

hi mi Bestest Buddy Gullum: go to -->

http://www.naderlibrary.com/cia.soldierfortunetoc.htm

For the bestest reading ever. I couldn't put it down, neither will you. You will understand when you read it,. a common thread..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Later, in 1952, Secret Service Agents knocked on the door of his
Van Nuys home. It seems, the agents told Holmdahl, there was a
rumor that someone had smuggled $20,000,000 in gold ingots
across the Mexican border, and Holmdahl was the chief suspect. [17]
Holmdahl denied any knowledge of such a crime, but one wonders,
was the old soldier still involved with finding Villa's gold? The
investigation, however, was subsequently dropped.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Hey Joe, Holmdahl was in this thing up to his eyeballs, I have absolutely no doubts.

Later in the book you can read this

In February 1926, Holmdahl was in the Durango mountains not
far from Parral, searching for gold bars with a cousin of Luz
Corral's, one of Pancho Villa's many wives. Probably he was
still looking for either Villa's purported buried treasure or for more
gold hidden by Thomas Urbina. He claimed that he and his com-
panion, Alberto Corral, found the hidden treasure in a cave on the
side of a cliff. With the help of two Indians, they lowered the gold
500 feet to level ground.

QUOTE "Holmdahl denied any knowledge of such a crime, but one wonders,
was the old soldier still involved with finding Villa's gold?"

HE sure was..........

EL PASO HERALD POST (dec 23rd 1933)PAGE2
SPIRITUALIST FAILS TO FIND PANCHO VILLAS TREASURE
Radio Detector Also Falls Down on Job, But Hunters Of
Bandit's Wealth Will Try Again
Failure today had rewarded the efforts of the latest expedition in
search ot the hidden treasure of Francisco (Pancho) Villa, Mexican
bandit leader.
Despite the assistance of a new-fangled radio treasure detector, a
spiritualist, and the leadership of the man supposed to have cut off
Pancho's head,'the party of American treasure seekers returned, empty
handed.
But faith in the radio detector
will take part of the group back into
Chihuahua after the holidays.
Headed by Emil Holmdahl, soldier
of fortune and colonel in Pancho
Villa's army, the Americans scoured
the hills of Chihuahua front Juarez
to Parral for several weeks.
It was rumored in Juarez that
natives near Parral took pot shots
at the fortune hunters,, but this
could not be confirmed.
J. H. Blackstone, California and
Shanghai, China hotel owner, financed
the expedition.
Holmdahl, who has been wounded
13 times in Mexican revolutions and
has escaped several firing squads,
once was arrested at Parral and
charged with cutting the head from
Pancho Villa's body and sending it
to Chicago. He denied the charge.
While in Juarez the searchers
made headquarters at Hotel Koper.
In an adjoining room, unknown
to the treasure seekers, resided Celia
Villa, daughter of Pancho Villa, who
would like to have some of the loot
her father is supposed to have
buried somewhere in Chihuahua.

 

[Peerless67]

Very interesting reading. Men like that just don't come along much anymore, it would sure make a great movie script.

Bill, while researching the Holmdahl link I was lucky enough to meet someone working on an unrelated project. Holmdahl was an aquaintance of several of the people in the story, and surprisingly also Doc Noss.

 

[Peerless67]

One of the things that make me REALLY believe that this exists, is something that Roy Roush told me he had found out;

After the Grand Jury Trial in 1952, one of the jurors moved from Los Angeles to Farmington, NM, and lived for the rest of his life with his family looking for the gold. Actions speak volumes!

Best-Mike

Mike, It is possible that one of the jurors moved to the Farmington area. But I would say that what was said in the court house was not the truth. However with the lure of $20,000,000 of gold, one can easily imagine why someone would do such a thing. But for my money Farmington is way off base. These guys were never going to tell where it was buried/hidden the story was a rouse to get the feds off the scent. I believe the 1933 date was also a red herring.

 

[Roadquest]

Very interesting reading. Men like that just don't come along much anymore, it would sure make a great movie script.

Bill, while researching the Holmdahl link I was lucky enough to meet someone working on an unrelated project. Holmdahl was an aquaintance of several of the people in the story, and surprisingly also Doc Noss.

Gary, Do you think any of this, you version, my version or Mikes, is linked to what Doc Noss found?

 

[Peerless67]

Very interesting reading. Men like that just don't come along much anymore, it would sure make a great movie script.

Bill, while researching the Holmdahl link I was lucky enough to meet someone working on an unrelated project. Holmdahl was an aquaintance of several of the people in the story, and surprisingly also Doc Noss.

Gary, Do you think any of this, you version, my version or Mikes, is linked to what Doc Noss found?

Clayton, it is possible.
A better way of putting it would be "do you think what Noss found is related to the 17 tons"

 

[purchase]

Interesting reading.

Nick

 

[Roadquest]

Very interesting reading. Men like that just don't come along much anymore, it would sure make a great movie script.

Bill, while researching the Holmdahl link I was lucky enough to meet someone working on an unrelated project. Holmdahl was an aquaintance of several of the people in the story, and surprisingly also Doc Noss.

Gary, Do you think any of this, you version, my version or Mikes, is linked to what Doc Noss found?

Clayton, it is possible.
A better way of putting it would be "do you think what Noss found is related to the 17 tons"

I think, until one of us finds it. I would not rule out possibility's

 

[gollum]

Clayton,

I doubt the 17 tons is related to Victorio Peak.

Gary,

I can absolutely guarantee you that the 1933 story is no red herring. I have interviews with people who saw and heard the Ford Tri-Motor flying into and out of the original hiding place of the gold. I have interviews with the man who gassed up the plane almost every time it flew in.

Notice I said Ford Tri-Motor, and not Stearman. As I have stated previously (a long time ago) that the name of "Wild" Bill Elliott was a Red Herring. I will not give the actual name of the pilot, but I know the location of the first hiding place of the gold. After the 1952 Grand Jury Trial, the ranch caretaker got paranoid, dug up all the gold, and moved it to the South. That's where my trail ends. The caretaker (who was the only one who knew where the gold was last hidden), died before he could tell anybody.

Holmdahl may or may not be involved, but I have a copy of the Secret Service Investigation Report in which they interviewed Emil Holmdahl. While his name and address is redacted, their description of the man and his personal history make it impossible to be anybody but him. It doesn't look like anything came of it.

I personally believe that if Holmdahl was a part of anything, it was Victorio Peak, and not the 17 tons.

Best-Mike

P.S.

Gary,

If you think that the Farmington Area of New Mexico has nothing to do with the 17 Tons Story, then you are missing a lot of valuable information. That, I can promise you. All I will say is that somewhere in that general area is both the landing place for the Ford Tri-Motor, and the first hiding place of the gold.

NOW I can see why you might think that 1933 is a red herring. You are missing some very key information!

 

[allenroyboy]

I agree that the Vitorio Peak/Doc Noss stash is likely different that the Trabuco gold. Noss stated that there was 18th century armor and letters indicating that the Spanish conquistadors were involved, which is a common theme of much gold stashed from Spanish mines, before they were called out by the king of Spain the and Indians revolted.

On the other hand the Trabuco gold, accordingly, is a 20th century stash. While it is possible that those called to the Grand Jury lied, it is also likely that they knew very little about the actual location because they were all just middle men, even once removed. It has taken decades for searchers to discover more information.

Gollum: I just got into this about a year ago through my brother who has gotten acquainted with a treasure hunting Dentist in Farmington whose mentor was the guy featured in the "unsolved Mysteries" segment.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I am curious about Spanish armor. Has anyone ever squatted next to a camp fire with copper riveted pockets? In a short while you will be hopping around holding your pants as far away from your delicate butt, eer posterior section of your lower anatomy. as possible. You can actually suffer with blisters.

Now imagine that you are using metal such as the armor supposedly used in that period, in that hot desert or tropical sun, sheesh. par boiled. From what I have heard, they adopted the Indian's method of using multilayers of buckskin as an effective armor. flexible, cooler, effective protection, lighter, and easily replaced.

I agree, some armor was used with quilted padding inside, but after a few weeks of sweating etc. it would be effectively eliminated as an isolator, and it would be a stinking mass of critters all chomping and sucking away.

Under these conditions why is so much Spanish armor supposedly associated with remote treasures or mines? Frankly, I would dump it the first opportunity.for the lighter and more effective bucksin jacket.

Final note, metal armor was extremely expensive and required daily care, most of the basic explorers could never have afforded it.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s I got along with a shaving bowl helmet..

 

[gollum]

I agree that the Vitorio Peak/Doc Noss stash is likely different that the Trabuco gold. Noss stated that there was 18th century armor and letters indicating that the Spanish conquistadors were involved, which is a common theme of much gold stashed from Spanish mines, before they were called out by the king of Spain the and Indians revolted.

On the other hand the Trabuco gold, accordingly, is a 20th century stash. While it is possible that those called to the Grand Jury lied, it is also likely that they knew very little about the actual location because they were all just middle men, even once removed. It has taken decades for searchers to discover more information.

Gollum: I just got into this about a year ago through my brother who has gotten acquainted with a treasure hunting Dentist in Farmington whose mentor was the guy featured in the "unsolved Mysteries" segment.

Hey ARB,

One of the packets of info I have is all the background stuff from Cosgrove-Meurer Productions (Unsolved Mysteries).

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

I am curious about Spanish armor. Has anyone ever squatted next to a camp fire with copper riveted pockets? In a short while you will be hopping around holding your pants as far away from your delicate butt, eer posterior section of your lower anatomy. as possible. You can actually suffer with blisters.

Now imagine that you are using metal such as the armor supposedly used in that period, in that hot desert or tropical sun, sheesh. par boiled. From what I have heard, they adopted the Indian's method of using multilayers of buckskin as an effective armor. flexible, cooler, effective protection, lighter, and easily replaced.

I agree, some armor was used with quilted padding inside, but after a few weeks of sweating etc. it would be effectively eliminated as an isolator, and it would be a stinking mass of critters all chomping and sucking away.

Under these conditions why is so much Spanish armor supposedly associated with remote treasures or mines? Frankly, I would dump it the first opportunity.for the lighter and more effective bucksin jacket.

Final note, metal armor was extremely expensive and required daily care, most of the basic explorers could never have afforded it.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s I got along with a shaving bowl helmet..

Hey Jose,

I know that many Spaniards might have wanted to dump their armor, but as you stated, it was very expensive. I would gather that only under extreme conditions would they dump their armor.

Here's a pic from a story down your way near the Cañon del Cobre area. It is the recovery (in 1974) of two of thirty-seven sets of Spanish Armor from a troop that WALKED from where their ship ran aground in the Sea of Cortez, to where the Apache massacred them near the Cañon del Cobre. I want to go get the other thirty-five! Oh yeah, and that thing in his left hand is a Spanish Crossbow.

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning Mi bestest buddy Gollum snicker: You posted -->

know that many Spaniards might have wanted to dump their armor, but as you stated, it was very expensive. I would gather that only under extreme conditions would they dump their armor.
~~~~~~~~~~~

I assume this is why most are found in caves, hidden for a later pickup. Only if bones are found inside of the armor, would I consider that the owner had been killed wearing it.

As for the Apache, I believe that the author was mistaken, since they would be far out of their self proclaimed territory of western Chihuahua. They would be invading the Tarahumara territory who were considered far better fighters, and did protect their territory with a vengeance.

Howeve,r like today, alliances were made and broken daily

The Apache were realistic or pragmatic fighters, they ambushed rather than engaging in open fighting.


Don Jose de La mancha

 

[Peerless67]

Mike, I should have been more specific. The 17 tons story started in 1950 when an escrow account was opened in the amount of $20,000,000. That figure equates to 17.77 tons of gold at the gold price of the time.
Who and where that gold came from has never been established with any certainty, although there are several possibilities.

The grand jury hearings in 1952 give us some good clues, 4 subpoenas were issued and all 4 men attended the hearings. Others were questioned but were never subpoenaed.

Lets look at those 10 people more closely, every one of them was a Californian, 4 of them were involved in mining and gold transactions.
How did we get to the point that a Grand jury hearing was called ? Well on two occasions leading up to it the group were supposed to deliver the gold to the US mint and it never arrived.
Which mint ? yes thats right the SanFrancisco mint, again in California. (count the mints closer to Farmington)

Now I am not saying that in 1933 gold was not delivered by plane to Farmington, what I am saying is that IF the gold being offered by the group WAS the gold that had been delivered to Farmington, it was no longer there and no longer belonged to the persons who had delivered it there.
Personally I have different theories, they are all based in factual and legal evidence, although they remain theories.


Alenroyboy,
No one should dismiss the possibility that the gold that Noss CLAIMED to have found at VP is not related to the 17 tons. Holmdahl had spent the later part of the 1920s and most of the 1930s searching for Villas cache/treasure.
Holmdahl was not like me or any of you, he was privvy to what Villa was doing, he was right there in the thick of it. During the 1930s Holmdahl and Noss were aquainted and had met in NM at least once.
Villa's loot would have consisted of some strange things, and it is documented that he stole from the rich and the churches. Gold and jewel encrusted chalices, sacred vestments, statues of the virgin mary!!!. He had taken much gold from the Terazza's family, they were believed to be ancestors of the conquistadores, so armour and old documents are also possible items in a Villa cache.
ONE of my theories is that IF Holmdahl had located the cache and struck a deal with Noss, Noss would have had to come up with a story for the items he had in his possesion IE documents, armour, jewels and wells fargo boxes. (Villa had recieved several gold coin shipments in wells fargo boxes)

............................................................

 

[Springfield]

Spanish Armor

More authentic armor - recovered from Victorio peak and paid to Doc Noss' helper in lieu of cash (can't remember his name). This armor appeared in local Las Cruces July 4th parades for a number of years. present whereabouts unknown.

 

[gollum]

Hey Jose,

The story was told by the Tarahumara to the author (that's who gave him the crossbow). Now, it is completely possible that the Tarahumara weren't being strictly honest with the Gringo, so as not to make their ancestors look bad (after all, they knew the exact location of the cave).

Gary,

It looks like your version and mine fit together quite well.

Yours finds the gold after the 1950's, while mine has the exact location UNTIL the 1950's (after the Grand Jury Trial). I know the gold in my version was moved South by truck in the 1950's, then moved again further South (don't know the method).

As for the owners, the Secret Service seems to have located (through testimony and interviews), a relative of Trabucco (and yes, Leon Trabucco was a real person). This person was involved.

I won't say that it's impossible for the 17 Tons and Victorio Peak Treasures to be related, but I doubt it. Villa was assassinated in 1923, and the 17 Tons was delivered from Mexico in 1933. I think that Victorio Peak was very likely golf brought in from the Mexican Revolution (just as likely as any other possibility, since it is no longer there).

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Mike, Villa was indeed assassinated in 1923, and in 1926 Holmdahl was in Mexico looking for Villas treasure. Both Holmdahl and a relative of Villas (Alberto Corral) were arrested for vandalizing Villas tomb.
Villa was taking gold left and right and generally giving constitutionalist currency in exchange. The exception to this was the American deals for arms and such, where the currency Villa was issuing in Mexico had no value. Holmdahl and Stade had both bought millions in gold bullion ( around 30 tons between them) into the states from villa to exchange for arms.
Holmdahls search never ended until the late 30s, enter Noss who in the late 30s "discovers" a fortune in gold, armour, jewels, documents and wells fargo boxes, not to interesting, but right around the time he was involved with Holmdahl.
Holmdahl had other aquaintances close to his home in California, among them Nobel and Hougen. Shortly before Hougen and Nobel got involved (1950) poor old Noss gets himself executed 1949 ?
Did anyone see anything other than wells fargo boxes, Jeweled artifacts, armour and jewels and a statue of the virgin mary come out of Noss' find ? where is the gold ?