Do the Stone Tablets lead to somewhere OTHER than the Superstition Mtns?

Oroblanco said:
Isn't it funny that some people can't understand the concept of us trying to keep things on a friendly basis, as amigo implies. We can disagree and still be friends, or some of us anyway.

:coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
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Yeah! Roy and I disagree all the time, and we are still close as peas in a pod! ;-)

Mike
 

I was skimming through the past post on this forum and came across a discussion of the misspelling of the word Coazon on the stone maps. Why is it everyone has bought into it as a misspelling?
here is a collection in a museum:

Pitt Rivers Museum - Manuscript Collection Listing
Papers of Fr Anthony Damian WEBB (1918–1990), Benedictine monk
Six boxes of material relating to travels and research on children’s games and song mainly in the UK, but also in Mediterranean Europe and Africa. Boxes 5 and 6 consist of Webb’s albums of contact sheets and the corresponding detailed documentation
Box 4
Letter in envelope from “Misioneras del Sagrado Coazon”
Pitt Rivers Museum - Manuscript Collections Listing - Webb Papers
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I propose that the Jesuits were based out of Portugal and this "misspelling" is a Portuguese to Spanish as shown
 

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Sailaway,

It is possible that the carver was originally from Brazil. Remember, the Portuguese kicked the Jesuits out of all their dominions worldwide in 1759. It is possible they could have relocated some to Spanish Territories.

On the other hand though, just do a google search for "coazon". You get page after page of people spelling corazon as coazon. Two hundred fifty years ago a lot higher percentage of the Spanish Speaking population misspelled many words.

Mike
 

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Google tries to take you to the Spanish version. Look below the converter and click that you want to keep your spelling and none of the Spanish comes up.


The ULTIMATE Live RBD, Live in Rio, April 10, 2007
1 Opening
2 Rebelde
3 Santa No Soy
4 Asi Soy Yo
5 Feliz Cumpleanos
6 Ensename
7 Que Fue Del Amor
8 Cuando El Amor Se Acaba
9 Una Cancion
10 Este Coazon
http://www.amazon.com/review/R15UW9ZLMM9DEB
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Music - Shakira
Donde Estas Coazon
http://shakiraa.mindenkilapja.hu/html/17873490/render/music
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Filippino Lippi
Introduction
Despite differences in languages, there are still a number of differences between the accents of a language. According to the New Oxford American Dictionary, accent, in terms of sociolinguistics, is defined as the unique manner of pronunciation to a specific individual, region or nation. (Oxford University Press, 2005) Lippi, the author of English With an Accent: Language, Ideology, and Discrimination in the United States, believes that accents identify nationalities, socio-economic status, social class and more characteristics of speakers. (Lippi-Green, 1997) This study aims to investigate the most recognizable and attractive accent to English learners (Non-native speakers) among 10 different accents (American, British, Chinese, French, Indian, Irish, Italian, Russian, Scottish and Spanish). It is hypothesized that both male and female non-native speakers are attracted to British accent the most. In addition, Hongkongers score the least in accents recognition while both Russians and Italians distinguished the most among all participants. The third hypothesis states that the American accent is the easiest accent to be identified.
Method
Attitudes Towards Accented Speech:
A Comparative Study Of Native And Non-Native Speakers Of American English by Selim Ben Said, the study which is the basis of my own study, conducted the research using a focus group format. Five different accents, Romanian, Bulgarian, Arabic, Spanish and Mandarin were recorded from five male and female providers respectively. The recordings were, then, played to the participants anonymously in order to let the group rate from 1 – 5 on aspects of pleasant, friendliness, refinement, ease of understanding, confidence and other feelings according to each accent. Furthermore, two qualitative questions, for instance ‘To what extent do you agree that you want to hear a non-native speaker speaks your language without a flaw and accent?’
http://www.studymode.com/essays/The-Most-Attractive-English-Accent-1647151.html
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these apply to Portuguese to Spanish rules also.

Alessandro di Mariano Filipepi
aka Sandro Botticelli
March 1, 1445 - May 17, 1510

Alessandro Filipepi, better known as Sandro Botticelli was an Italian painter of the Florentine school during the Early Renaissance or Quattrocento. Sandro was born at Florence in 1445 in a house in the Via Nueva, Borg' Ognissanti. This was the home of his father, Mariano di Vanni dei Filipepi, a struggling tanner. Sandro, the youngest child, derived the name Botticelli by which he was commonly known, not, as related by Giorgio Vasari, from a goldsmith to whom he was apprenticed, but from his eldest brother Giovanni, a prosperous broker, who seems to have taken charge of the boy and who for some reason bore the nickname Botticello or Little Barrel. Botticelli was first apprenticed to a goldsmith at an early age of 13, then, following the boy's wishes, his doting father set him to Fra Filippo Lippi who was at work frescoing the Convent of the Carmine. Lippo Lippi's synthesis of the new control of three-dimensional forms, tender expressiveness in face and gesture, and decorative details inherited from the late Gothic style were the strongest influences on Botiicelli. During his apprentice years Sandro was no doubt employed with other pupils upon the great series of frescoes in the choir of the Pieve at Prato upon which his master was for long intermittently engaged. The later among these frescoes in many respects anticipate, by charm of sentiment, animation of movement and rhythmic flutter of draperies, some of the prevailing characteristics of Sandro's own style. One of Sandro's earliest extant pictures, the oblong "Adoration of the Magi" at the National Gallery, London, shows him almost entirely under the influence of his first master. Botticelli quickly became recognized as a gifted artist all by himself. By the time he was 25, he was able to open a workshop dedicated to his own work.
In 1481, Botticelli was invited to Rome to take part in the painting of the Sistine Chapel. Sandro joined artists such as Perugino, Ghirlandaio and then Michelangelo in contributing to the most well known piece of Italian art. While there, Botticelli worked on several pieces in the Chapel. In all, Botticelli painted three large pieces, as well as seven papal portraits in the Sistine Chapel.
As Sandro grew older, his style underwent a remarkable change. Sandro became a follower of the monk Savonarola who was a prominent civic leader in Florence. He stressed giving up all worldly things. He was very charismatic and often spoke of death and God’s wrath upon the people. Many of Botticelli’s previous paintings were considered ungodly and were burned along with objectionable books and playing cards. When Savonarola’s popularity ended, he was burnt in the center of Florence. Many followers fled the city, but Botticelli stayed and continued to paint. Many of his works contained a very religious feel to them. Sandro included highly religious symbolism in his paintings; they seemed to be telling a story. Sandro became known as an excellent altarpiece painter and earned large amounts of money through those commissions.
Botticelli’s later years seemed to be a disturbing time for him. As times changed in Florence, Botticelli tried to keep up. He often took on difficult commissions that other painters turned down. His rotating style reflected that Botticelli was struggling as a painter. His paintings were full of emotion raging from violence to grace and compassion. Even though Sandro was trying to keep up his status as a painter, he was still recognized with the honor to be part of the committee that chose the spot where Michelangelo would place his statue David.
Sandro Botticelli died at the age of 65. Some say Sandro was poor and unaccomplished at his death. This could be attributed to the rising popularity of new and contemporary artists such as Michelangelo, Raphael and Leonardo Da Vinci. Even though his work is now thought to be among the most masterful of his time, his work lay forgotten for over 400 years after his death. Looking back at history, he now has the respect he earned through a lifetime of achievement. Sandro Botticelli contribution to the Italian Renaissance period was one of great distinction.
Botticelli quickly became recognized as a gifted artist all by himself. By the time he was 25, he was able to open a workshop dedicated to his own work.
http://historylink101.com/art/Sandro_Botticelli/index.htm
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Oasis (PRIMICIA 2014)(2015)(CUMBIA SUREÑA)(CUMBIA CHICHA BOLIVIANA)TEMA.SUEÑOS(PRIMICIAS 2014)2015
Isura De los Andes Huayno Con Teclado Primicias 2014 Dina Paucar Huayno Peruano 2014 Coazon serrano 2014 DEIVI Producciones
http://www.primiciamusical.com/ver-...-oasis-2014suenosmix-cumbias-201/SVMsPILkc28/
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30,800 post containing the word COAZON Do I need to continue? These are recent and not from non-educated Portuguese. My guess is that Mike is correct and that the carver was from the Missions at RIO and was commissioned to carve the maps as they knew that expulsion was on its way for Sonora also. This leaves a very small window and should be easy to identify who was the last Padres to come to Prima Alta.

The Roman Catholic faith has been the predominant faith of Brazil since its earliest settlement by Europeans in the 1500s. Catholic clergy accompanied the first explorers and colonizers to Brazil. The Jesuits made significant missionary and educational efforts, especially among the Indians. From 1549 until their expulsion in 1759, the Jesuits dominated religious life in the colony. The Franciscan friars also played an important role in Brazil. Church records are very helpful because civil authorities did not begin registering vital statistics until after 1850.
The arrival of six Jesuits in 1549 marked the beginning of organized religious activity in the colony. Catholic clergy have documented the history of Brazil in their church records from the very start of the exploration of Brazil. The earliest church records of baptisms, marriages, and deaths in Brazil that have been microfilmed are the Catholic Church records in Rio de Janeiro from 1616.
to research Brazil the Mormans have records:
http://net.lib.byu.edu/fslab/researchoutlines/LatinAmerica/Brazil.pdf
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yes it does work somehiker.
search only portuguese Cabollo
Caño de Cobollo: Panama
Cana de Cabollo.PNGCana de Cabollo 2.PNG
SOURCE: National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Bethesda, MD, USA
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, a member of the Intelligence community of the United States of America, and a Department of Defense (DoD) Combat Support Agency
Caño de Cobollo, Panama - Geographical Names, map, geographic coordinates
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Cobollo e hijos SL ... Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Pitcairn Island, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Qatar, Reunion, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, S. Georg.
Contacts Cobollo e hijos SL - Spain
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A History of the Spanish Language Through Texts
Christopher Pountain - 2002 - ‎Language Arts & Disciplines
[mexor] (mq'or) This development is essentially the same as took place in a number of neighbouring Romance varieties, most obviously Portuguese.
http://books.google.com/books?id=--...6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=portuguese COBOLLO&f=false
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Un Caballero, Dios o El Diablo - Paloma Cobollo Castillo
http://www.bubok.es/libros/206216/Un-Caballero-Dios-o-El-Diablo
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Letter Perfect: The Marvelous History of Our Alphabet From A to Z
David Sacks - 2007 - ‎Language Arts & Disciplines
cobollo. The postal references commemorate an era when a I'ranhish ... Portuguese, Spanish. French, Italian, and Romanian.
http://books.google.com/books?id=MB...EwADgK#v=onepage&q=portuguese COBOLLO&f=false
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58,500 post that contain Cobollo

3 year-old bilingual child switching between English and Portuguese


Portuguese/Contents/Slang (Brazil)
area of origin General Slang
1Northeast region (Alagoas, Bahia, Ceará, Paraíba, Pernambuco, Rio Grande do Norte, Sergipe)
2 Rio de Janeiro
3 Rio Grande do Sul
4 São Paulo
4 Minas Gerais
6 Goiás
7 Brasilia (DF)
Yo boy (GAH-tah - gah-TEEN-yah) Babe, hot girl Gato, gatinho (GAH-to - gat-TEEN-yo) Babe, hot boy Grana (GRAHN-nah) Money Gringo (GREEN-go) Foreigner Legal (leh-GOW
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Portuguese/Contents/Slang_(Brazil)
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It seems that it is a reference to all the grown ups or all the best or most desired.
Portuguese Yo Boy has 109,000,000 results
So yes I will conclude that our carver of the stones was from Brazil and most probably RIO.
Does this mean the Gold we were looking for was the Gold and Silver found in RIO?
 

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sailaway said:
So yes I will conclude that our carver of the stones was from Brazil and most probably RIO.
Does this mean the Gold we were looking for was the Gold and Silver found in RIO?
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Why wouldn't our carver from Brazil simply bury what he found in Rio, nearby in the mountains? Why make the arduous 6,000 miles journey from Rio to where the Stone Maps were found? This is a journey so difficult that Google Maps refuses to calculate how long it would take on foot.
 

I was thinking more like maybe he sent word to Brazil, like in the form of a letter, for the church to know where he was putting the stones so that others could recover what he knew could be reclaimed and sent to Brazil after expulsion. Is there any proof that the church did not recover the treasures after expulsion and send the treasures to RIO? Also was talking about Jesuit Padres that were kicked out of RIO in 1759 then posibly transfered to Prima Alta missions. when kicked out of a country they do not make you walk, they put you on the next boat to anywhere out of the country. And never said that he took anything out of RIO, those are your own words and thoughts deducer, but could it be that the stones lead to the hiding place in RIO was my point. When kicked out of a country it does not erase your memory. If i remember right the Peraltas found the stones in the floor of one of the Missions. Could this have been the reason why the treasure in RIO was not found till contractors were hired to demo?

Then also why does a inland bay in Panama come up when searching for Cobollo?
 

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I work with people from all over the world, many of them from Portugal, Spain and the Central American countries.
I have shown the H/P stone photos to several co-workers and none of them have any trouble explaining what the phrases mean to them.

"COBOLLO" on the stone has three "O"s......no "A" as in "CABOLLO", or "A"s as in "CABALLO".....

Azmula's theory has the two trail map stones and heart stone being found in the floor of the old Jesuit Church of Arispe, Sonora.
They are then sent via special courier to Mexico City via rail. The courier becomes ill and dies, whereupon the stones are stolen by unknown thieves.
He believes that they made their way to PegLeg Tumlinson and remained with the family until they were "found" by Pegleg's grandson Travis, who carved the H/P stone and added it to the story. Unfortunately, Azmula has so far failed to produce any documentation supporting his claims as to the discovery of the stones at Arispe, or their theft while in transit.
 

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sailaway said:
I was thinking more like maybe he sent word to Brazil, like in the form of a letter, for the church to know where he was putting the stones so that others could recover what he knew could be reclaimed and sent to Brazil after expulsion. Is there any proof that the church did not recover the treasures after expulsion and send the treasures to RIO? Also was talking about Jesuit Padres that were kicked out of RIO in 1759 then posibly transfered to Prima Alta missions. when kicked out of a country they do not make you walk, they put you on the next boat to anywhere out of the country. And never said that he took anything out of RIO, those are your own words and thoughts deducer, but could it be that the stones lead to the hiding place in RIO was my point. When kicked out of a country it does not erase your memory. If i remember right the Peraltas found the stones in the floor of one of the Missions. Could this have been the reason why the treasure in RIO was not found till contractors were hired to demo?
Then also why does a inland bay in Panama come up when searching for Cabollo?
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Sailaway,

First there is no proof linking the Peraltas to the Stone Maps. Apparently, those two legends somehow became intertwined over the years, for one reason or another.

Second, while the idea was proposed that the Stone Maps were stolen or taken from the Nuestra Señora de la Asunción de Arizpe, no conclusive evidence was ever given for that theory by the poster who proposed it, so it has to remain speculation for now, although I am hoping to make the trip down to Arizpe, sometimes soon.

You could probably find many words, places, or things that relate to the word 'cobollo,' but unless the context is relevant, these are probably coincidence.

One other thing to keep in mind are the weight of those Stone Maps- around 25 lbs for the trail stones, each, not sure in regard to the H/P stone, but you would have to imagine that they were not meant for long voyages, but to be cached near the places that they referred to. Carrying in excess of 50 lbs over rugged terrain isn't something to be lightly considered, and I maintain this to be another hole in the theory that those stones are frauds or refer to a place elsewhere than the Superstitions.
 

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this thread: Do the Stone Tablets lead to somewhere OTHER than the Superstition Mtns?
original poster gollum
Father Och of the arrests (26 June 1767) and how they are so lax in guarding him, that he is able to have his boy bring up a container of burning coals, so he can BURN HIS CORRESPONDENCES! GEEZ! Why on Earth would a poor old Jesuit Priest feel the need to burn correspondences in the midst of a roundup of Jesuit Priests? What would he feel the need to hide from the Spanish?
Mike
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could this be the correspondence that told of the stones in the floor?
original poster Oroblanco
$4,823,364,925.91, not counting the 26 bags of gemstones, found in a Jesuit fortress/monastery in Brazil in 1891. That is over $4.8 BILLION in gold, what it would be worth today that is, and in that case, when the Marquis de Pombal, another "enemy" of the Jesuits heard that they were supposed to have paid a 20% the royal quinto to the king, the padre named on the receipts found with it, father Anton Desartes, first claimed that he had never had the money and gold in his possession, then claimed that it had been paid to the king in a previous rulership! Pombal never found it, and our Jesuit apologists have pointed to the failure to find such treasures as "proof" they never had it, but it was eventually found.
ORO
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could the maps have been for this treasure?

My query on Google was specific as only for Portuguese words........
as for the stones weight and purpose, there is a problem if you bury a map of organic nature and that is rot or deterioration. Carved stone will be good for years and the material available everywhere. With a heavy weight it would discourage anyone from hauling them off, remember the time frame when they were buried. This would mean when a priest could make it back there to Arizipe they could copy the maps on paper and leave and no one would be any the wiser of such an event.

You can believe there is no connection between the stone maps and the Peraltas if you wish, but then Why are they called the Peralta Stones? Why did Jacob Waltz claim that a Peralta gave them to him? Why did Joseph Smith claim Waltz gave them to him, ect. and they were lost after a flood washed jacob waltz house in Queen Valley away only to be found again by Travis T. I have read accounts that the stones were Commissioned by Pedro Peralta Governer of New Mexico and founder of Santa Fe and that he was a Geologist schooled in Spain. He found the mines described on the stone maps, but all this takes us away from the maps leading to other places than the Sups.
This being said was it common knowledge in Spain in the 1600's when Pedro went to higher education to learn Geology that they taught the shapes of the horses and priest as plates for finding precious metals anywhere in the world? Or did he learn this from the Dominicans while he was being sent to New Mexico from Hispaniola?
On the flank of the horse is Pedro's name, the horse is named Santa Fe. Don was his rank from the crown [Don from Latin dominus, (roughly, "Lord") is an honorific title used in Iberia, Italy and Latin America.], RIO is on the far hillside....all this on the horse side of the stone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peralta_Stones
If you want I will call Phil and ask him how much the stone weighs being as they are in his museum, and yes we talk every time i go out there and share stories about the trails in the Sups..
The Heart.PNG Here is the Heart of the maps. Notice that the marker and Hieroglyphic of the Mina Virgon are on the back side of the peak. I have included the camera position on the map. This is the first time I have displayed this.
 

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sailaway said:
You can believe there is no connection between the stone maps and the Peraltas if you wish, but then Why are they called the Peralta Stones? Why did Jacob Waltz claim that a Peralta gave them to him? Why did Joseph Smith claim Waltz gave them to him, ect. and they were lost after a flood washed jacob waltz house in Queen Valley away only to be found again by Travis T. I have read accounts that the stones were Commissioned by Pedro Peralta Governer of New Mexico and founder of Santa Fe and that he was a Geologist schooled in Spain. He found the mines described on the stone maps, but all this takes us away from the maps leading to other places than the Sups.
This being said was it common knowledge in Spain in the 1600's when Pedro went to higher education to learn Geology that they taught the shapes of the horses and priest as plates for finding precious metals anywhere in the world? Or did he learn this from the Dominicans while he was being sent to New Mexico from Hispaniola?
On the flank of the horse is Pedro's name, the horse is named Santa Fe. Don was his rank from the crown [Don from Latin dominus, (roughly, "Lord") is an honorific title used in Iberia, Italy and Latin America.], RIO is on the far hillside....all this on the horse side of the stone. Peralta Stones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you want I will call Phil and ask him how much the stone weighs being as they are in his museum, and yes we talk every time i go out there and share stories about the trails in the Sups..
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For me, it's not a matter of believing- I just have not found any proof that the Stone Maps are in any way related to the Peraltas.

Neither have I found anything that indicates Waltz ever saw those stones.

I am sure you have read through plenty of accounts or testimony regarding the Stone Maps as have I, but the trick is to know when those testimonies or accounts aren't true (most of the time they aren't). For me, if an account cannot be properly verified or corroborated by an independent source, it is hearsay.

Pedro de Peralta was appointed governor of New Mexico by the Viceroy in 1609, a period during which mining was not yet widespread or active, I believe. Additionally, as a person of substantial power, he would not have had any reason to engage in duplicity or concealment (e.g., carving coded stone maps).

As to why the name "Pedro" exists at the hole in the horse's flank, I have no answer at this point. Perhaps someone else has a better understanding of that.

The horse isn't quite named Santafe- the literal translation is "The Horse of Santa Fe." However, in the appropriate time period, that phrase was also an idiom that meant "servant of the holy faith."
 

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But it appears the Lost Dutchman Mine never existed....

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