YOUR FAVORITE CLUE/EVIDENCE

[markmar]

IIRC, Chuning wasn't always searching for the LDM. He was also actively prospecting- always looking for gold.

Like all the LDM hunters or other lost gold mines.

 

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[somehiker]

Of course

View attachment 1734528

Am I correct in assuming the letter was from Richard Peck to John Chuning ?
That Peck actually means JOE Deering, rather than JOHN Deering ?
That the drawing Peck is referencing in this "Dear John" letter is one which John Chuning had received from Joe Deering ?

 

[markmar]

Am I correct in assuming the letter was from Richard Peck to John Chuning ?
That Peck actually means JOE Deering, rather than JOHN Deering ?
That the drawing Peck is referencing in this "Dear John" letter is one which John Chuning had received from Joe Deering ?

Yes.

 

[somehiker]

Yes.

That the drawings on the letter are by Peck.....not made by Deering or Chuning ?

Do you know where this is ? Where it was taken from ?
Chuning spent a lot of time searching this area, along with Boulder Canyon.
As far as I know, Peck did as well.

From an original photo by Roger Newkirk.....
I have some of my own, but they are on a different computer which I don't have time to get to right now.
.....now added one below.....

 

[Matthew Roberts]

somehiker,

Spire or "needle" from a different angle.



Yes, Peck drew the 3 sketches but from drawings and sketches he had acquired from other dutch hunters.
I don't believe Peck ever himself searched in the area of the spire, "needle" in the photo. He was not much of a boots on the ground searcher.

Best,

Matthew

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,

Spire or "needle" from a different angle.

View attachment 1734660

Yes, Peck drew the 3 sketches but from drawings and sketches he had acquired from other dutch hunters.
I don't believe Peck ever himself searched in the area of the spire, "needle" in the photo. He was not much of a boots on the ground searcher.

Best,

Matthew

If so, then it's too bad that he didn't IMO.
Then the drawings in reality, came from several, rather than a single source.
What was Chuning's answer to Peck's question about the sketches ?
Do you agree with Marius' assertion that Weaver's Needle can be seen from the mine as a single spire ?
Peck says mine "site", rather than simply "mine". To me, the site would likely include the clue(s) which state the peak can be seen to the south from a short distance above the mine.
Your shot looks to be from the area above the narrows, where the "monumented trail" crossed over the top.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

If so, then it's too bad that he didn't IMO.
Then the drawings in reality, came from several, rather than a single source.
What was Chuning's answer to Peck's question about the sketches ?
Do you agree with Marius' assertion that Weaver's Needle can be seen from the mine as a single spire ?
Peck says mine "site", rather than simply "mine". To me, the site would likely include the clue(s) which state the peak can be seen to the south from a short distance above the mine.
Your shot looks to be from the area above the narrows, where the "monumented trail" crossed over the top.

somehiker,

Yes, you have the area of my photo just about right. I don't know if anyone ever answered Pecks question about the 3 drawings.

I don't think Weavers needle can be seen from the mine as a single spire but I'll tell you something Clay showed me once when we were back in the mountains.

Clay and I were searching a ridge, Clay up top, me down below. Clay signaled me to come up. He was standing on a point with Four Peaks to the NE and Weavers Needle behind him to the SW. If you drew a straight line we would have been standing almost on it. The day was hazy and Clay pointed to Four Peaks which can never really be seen as one peak in the Superstitions. He told me to squint my eyes a little and look. When I did Four Peaks looked exactly like one peak, spire. Then looking around at Weavers, the same thing. It too looked like one peak in the haze. Clays point was Waltzs eyesight was probably not good and to Waltz, even on a good day the peaks looked as one. I had to admit, in the haze that day, and if my eyesight wasn't so good, I would have described Four Peaks and Weavers as single peak spires also.

Matthew

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,

Yes, you have the area of my photo just about right. I don't know if anyone ever answered Pecks question about the 3 drawings.

I don't think Weavers needle can be seen from the mine as a single spire but I'll tell you something Clay showed me once when we were back in the mountains.

Clay and I were searching a ridge, Clay up top, me down below. Clay signaled me to come up. He was standing on a point with Four Peaks to the NE and Weavers Needle behind him to the SW. If you drew a straight line we would have been standing almost on it. The day was hazy and Clay pointed to Four Peaks which can never really be seen as one peak in the Superstitions. He told me to squint my eyes a little and look. When I did Four Peaks looked exactly like one peak, spire. Then looking around at Weavers, the same thing. It too looked like one peak in the haze. Clays point was Waltzs eyesight was probably not good and to Waltz, even on a good day the peaks looked as one. I had to admit, in the haze that day, and if my eyesight wasn't so good, I would have described Four Peaks and Weavers as single peak spires also.

Matthew

I know what you mean. I've been out there myself, when on more than one occasion, I could barely make out both of those landmarks through the haze, or even low clouds at times. And the dust storm I had to wait out last year.....I couldn't see more than a couple of hundred yards.
In addition to poor eyesight, Waltz likely also had less than perfect hearing.....all those years of shooting and swinging a pick without protection. Might have been why it was so easy for Reed to get the drop on him, and that being part of the reason for Waltz's reluctance to go back to the mine alone during his later years. It's also possible I guess, that with failing eyes, he may not have been confident that he would even be able to find his way to the mine again. Not being able to see the difference between WN and any other sharp peak in the distance could have left him lost out there in short order.
But there are many days when one can clearly see both from several high points in the range but nothing that I know of, which indicates that Waltz's mine itself could be the vantage point from which anyone could view any part of Weavers Needle .
Have you ?

Here's a very hazy shot of the sups and WN I took from a rented Cessna 19 years ago.
It was shortly after a lengthy dust storm had passed through......
Took a lot less time to get to the needle than it would have for JW .

 

[Mc4500]

somehiker,

Yes, you have the area of my photo just about right. I don't know if anyone ever answered Pecks question about the 3 drawings.

I don't think Weavers needle can be seen from the mine as a single spire but I'll tell you something Clay showed me once when we were back in the mountains.

Clay and I were searching a ridge, Clay up top, me down below. Clay signaled me to come up. He was standing on a point with Four Peaks to the NE and Weavers Needle behind him to the SW. If you drew a straight line we would have been standing almost on it. The day was hazy and Clay pointed to Four Peaks which can never really be seen as one peak in the Superstitions. He told me to squint my eyes a little and look. When I did Four Peaks looked exactly like one peak, spire. Then looking around at Weavers, the same thing. It too looked like one peak in the haze. Clays point was Waltzs eyesight was probably not good and to Waltz, even on a good day the peaks looked as one. I had to admit, in the haze that day, and if my eyesight wasn't so good, I would have described Four Peaks and Weavers as single peak spires also.

Matthew

This is from the Superstitions

 

[Mc4500]

Here's a question I propose to everyone, why is everyone focused on Weavers Needle?

I mean I've read a bunch of different "clues" that talk about the needle. "the tip of a sharp needle can be seen to the south", "to the south is a sharp needle or pointed rock with a hole in it or through it", "a short climb above the mine can be seen a sharp needle". So which one is it?

I mean if Weavers needle was named in the mid 1800's I doubt that it would be widely known as that. They didn't have the information like we do. Could he have just been describing what he saw?

I feel the same way about the 4 peaks clue. I don't believe he ever said "to the north the 4 peaks mountain line up to look like one", he just said "the 4 peaks line up as one".

Just a question I had.

 

[azdave35]

Here's a question I propose to everyone, why is everyone focused on Weavers Needle?

I mean I've read a bunch of different "clues" that talk about the needle. "the tip of a sharp needle can be seen to the south", "to the south is a sharp needle or pointed rock with a hole in it or through it", "a short climb above the mine can be seen a sharp needle". So which one is it?

I mean if Weavers needle was named in the mid 1800's I doubt that it would be widely known as that. They didn't have the information like we do. Could he have just been describing what he saw?

I feel the same way about the 4 peaks clue. I don't believe he ever said "to the north the 4 peaks mountain line up to look like one", he just said "the 4 peaks line up as one".

Just a question I had.

actually most ldm hunters could care less about weavers needle...just the noobies are obsessed with the needle

 

[Mc4500]

actually most ldm hunters could care less about weavers needle...just the noobies are obsessed with the needle

Lol! Oh really?! Ha ha ha.

Didn't Mathew Roberts just post about him and Clay seeing Weavers needle? I wouldn't necessarily call either of them noobies.

 

[somehiker]

actually most ldm hunters could care less about weavers needle...just the noobies are obsessed with the needle

I've often had the same thoughts about WN, although it's certainly one of the most prominent and easily identified landmarks out there, which I would think most guides and treasure-map makers would be inclined to use as such. I don't know about just newbies though, since many old timers referred to it as applicable to their own searching. Even Celeste Jones and her crew, who blowed part of it off.
Could be that most of the ones still around have other places in mind, where WN can't be used as a valid "clue", or it's in the wrong direction or something. So, even though it's still a big area to go over, I'm not willing to spend much of my time looking all over the range for a mine which was supposedly hidden in the first place, I'll stick to that N-S line between Four Peaks and Weavers Needle for any looking I do make time for.

 

[azdave35]

Lol! Oh really?! Ha ha ha.

Didn't Mathew Roberts just post about him and Clay seeing Weavers needle? I wouldn't necessarily call either of them noobies.

all they did was mention it...how can you not see it when your in the mountains..i guarantee neither of them spend time looking for the ldm around the needle

 

[azdave35]

I've often had the same thoughts about WN, although it's certainly one of the most prominent and easily identified landmarks out there, which I would think most guides and treasure-map makers would be inclined to use as such. I don't know about just newbies though, since many old timers referred to it as applicable to their own searching. Even Celeste Jones and her crew, who blowed part of it off.
Could be that most of the ones still around have other places in mind, where WN can't be used as a valid "clue", or it's in the wrong direction or something. So, even though it's still a big area to go over, I'm not willing to spend much of my time looking all over the range for a mine which was supposedly hidden in the first place, I'll stick to that N-S line between Four Peaks and Weavers Needle for any looking I do make time for.

wayne..i've heard the stories about jones blowing part of weavers needle off..even heard she blew up an alabaster cross on top of the needle...although i've never seen any proof she did

 

[somehiker]

all they did was mention it...how can you not see it when your in the mountains..i guarantee neither of them spend time looking for the ldm around the needle

I think most of the real serious ones did their searching within that well known 5 mile radius.....didn't they ?

 

[deducer]

The day was hazy and Clay pointed to Four Peaks which can never really be seen as one peak in the Superstitions. He told me to squint my eyes a little and look. When I did Four Peaks looked exactly like one peak, spire. Then looking around at Weavers, the same thing. It too looked like one peak in the haze. Clays point was Waltzs eyesight was probably not good and to Waltz, even on a good day the peaks looked as one. I had to admit, in the haze that day, and if my eyesight wasn't so good, I would have described Four Peaks and Weavers as single peak spires also.

Matthew

That is a very good point.

 

[somehiker]

wayne..i've heard the stories about jones blowing part of weavers needle off..even heard she blew up an alabaster cross on top of the needle...although i've never seen any proof she did

What would you expect to see as proof ?
Have you ever climbed up there to look ?
Other than using it as a reference on the landscape, I haven't had that much interest in all the things which were said about it over the years.

 

[azdave35]

What would you expect to see as proof ?
Have you ever climbed up there to look ?
Other than using it as a reference on the landscape, I haven't had that much interest in all the things which were said about it over the years.

proof would be a witness still living that was there at the time..i know a man that worked for jones for a while when he was a young man...i tried to get him to talk about his time with her and he shut me down cold...that was over 20 years ago..he might be willing to talk now

 

[Al D]

wayne..i've heard the stories about jones blowing part of weavers needle off..even heard she blew up an alabaster cross on top of the needle...although i've never seen any proof she did

That story was told in the book titled “The Killer Mountains”, I have tried to track down where Glen Magil or the writer Curt Gentry got the story but so far (a few years now) I have had no luck.