Xterra 705 or Safari?

[falconman515]

How much depth is lost between the "Gold Pack" Stock 5x10" DD Elliptical 18.75khz Coil And The 10.5" DD Round 7.5khz coil ... for the 705?

What aside from loss in depth are the pros and cons to each

Overall I am trying to decide if can get by with the 5x10 DD for now and buy the 10.5 DD down the road ... but I hate to being using the small not as deep and not as good coil for to long and think "Dang what am I missing by not having the 10.5" Round DD Coil" when searching until then

Thanks so much .... just wanting to know everything as much I can to make the best choice (plus money is a tinge of an issue in having to purchase the 10.5 DDD extra right now with everything as well).

 

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[Longhair]

There are a total of 12 coils available for the 705, of which 3 are LF, 4 are MF, and 5 are HF. Of the 12, 4 are concentric, and 9 are DD.
Point being that they are all different due to size, frequency, and/or configuration, so there is virtually no redundancy. Each will have it's strong suits as well as it's weaknesses. Each new coil that you add will look at your ground differently. So regardless of what you start with or what you add, you'll essentially renew all of your sites with each new coil and have to re-hunt them all anyway (if you really want to be sure that you missed nothing). I'm NOT saying that you have to have all 12 coils to find everything, but each one brings something to the table that the others did not.

While the 5x10" HF DD isn't the deepest, isn't the most accurate on high conductors, nor the best frequency for most U.S. coins, it does have the separation ability of a 10" DD, it will see all targets within it's reach, and being a solid bottom coil it won't get hung up in brush and stubble like a spoked coil. It will also be more sensitive to small targets and gold jewelry than all other coils except the 6" HF DD.

 

[Spaceport]

Falcon...check out Madison Maine on youtube.....he has both the AT PRO amd the 705 as well....I do not know much about the Safari at all and some have been up for sale in almost factory condition for around 600.00-700.00 with accessories and I thought about it but then came back to reality and I am sure it is a good machine but I would buy the Safari and in due time would get the Etrac then the CTX....seriously thinking about just cutting to the chase and dropping the wad on the CTX and getting it over with....I will always keep my 705 and think it will be my main machine but I know how I am and I will keep upgrading from time to time so thinking of doing it sooner than later...maybe within this year...I would rather do it now before we buy a bigger house and have another baby and all the expenses.....keep us posted on what you decide and when ya do get and let us know how you are making out.

 

[dirtscratcher]

NEL makes some pretty good coils for the extera also. I have the stock concentric 7.5 and the hf elliptical, and the 10.5 mf which seems to me works best for my style of hunting. The only thing negative I can say about the 705 is where the head phone jack is located. I hunt plowed fields often and it is a pain digging a target and keeping it from falling over and getting dirt in plug area. Not to mention cord slapping my arm all the time. I've seen adapters to bring plug to the back of armrest but have'nt tried one yet.

 

[Spaceport]

I have the 10.5" 7.5 kHz too and I have to say its pretty impressive...that coil goes deep....I hear what your saying about the headphones...but I have only hunted a few times with headphones, I cannot stand the cord no matter where the jack is....I would like to get some wireless someday down the road.

 

[Longhair]

NEL makes some pretty good coils for the extera also.

NEL makes crap for Xterra coils. They are NOT authorized by Minelab to produce them, and in fact they cannot be legally sold in the U.S. due to their being a patent infringement. Minelab even went so far as to make a firmware change in January 2012 to negate the use of unauthorized aftermarket coils such as the NEL coils. NEL, not having the inside information necessary to produce proper coils, chose to "reverse engineer" (<-read stole) the technology. Unlike NEL, Coiltek negotiated and worked with Minelab to produce Xterra coils, and as a result the Coiltek coils are exceptional!
SmartCoil™ technology coils employed by the Xterras and CTX3030 are unlike any other coils, in that they are NOT simply wound wire in an epoxy filled plastic housing. The chip technology used is proprietory, and protected by patent law.

DON'T BUY NEL XTERRA COILS! DON'T REWARD THIEVES!

 

[christo000]

I have,to disagree I don't think.there thieves at all there are people out here in this hobby that are very smart. Like every company in the world a product comes out & there is goin.to be someone who likes the brand but sees where it can use improvement, I mean cars,TVs, everything so there all thieves no. nel coils have been around for years, they aren't crap infact they work quite well. Thieves is a pretty harsh word theres aftermarket items for everything out there & will continue to be. I mean look at all the pinpointers garret comes out with a design that looks nothing like others & now what now all companies whites,minelabe,ect they copied garret so does that mean minelabe & whites there thieves because they copied garret but put in there electronics? Kinda tha same thing the after market coil companies do they use there electronics in a similar body but improve it same way minelabe tried to improve the pinpointer used a basic Same design.with tweeks same thing

 

[Spaceport]

Also the thing about firmware added is a crock or the coil companies have worked around it....the aftermarket coils will work and not show errors on the display.....I always hear the whole firmware thing but not once have I ever heard of anyone getting an aftermarket coil and it not working

 

[Longhair]

I have,to disagree I don't think.there thieves at all there are people out here in this hobby that are very smart. Like every company in the world a product comes out & there is goin.to be someone who likes the brand but sees where it can use improvement, I mean cars,TVs, everything so there all thieves no. nel coils have been around for years, they aren't crap infact they work quite well. Thieves is a pretty harsh word theres aftermarket items for everything out there & will continue to be. I mean look at all the pinpointers garret comes out with a design that looks nothing like others & now what now all companies whites,minelabe,ect they copied garret so does that mean minelabe & whites there thieves because they copied garret but put in there electronics? Kinda tha same thing the after market coil companies do they use there electronics in a similar body but improve it same way minelabe tried to improve the pinpointer used a basic Same design.with tweeks same thing

Nobody is making a direct copy of a Garrett pinpointer, and if they were Garrett would put a stop to it by legally asserting their rights under patent law. Just because another may have a similar appearance does not mean that any functional design has been copied. And again, Xterra coils ARE NOT like any other coils produced by aftermarket companies.

Also the thing about firmware added is a crock or the coil companies have worked around it....the aftermarket coils will work and not show errors on the display.....I always hear the whole firmware thing but not once have I ever heard of anyone getting an aftermarket coil and it not working

If that were true, then why all of the videos on YouTube showing how to press combinations of buttons to force acceptance?

Sorry, but you folks are incorrect, and NEL still can't sell Xterra coils legally in the U.S. period. Minelab and Coiltek coils can be sold, because they break no laws.

 

[christo000]

What ever I know for a fact when I had my xterra I tried aftermarket coils no errors came up & ws worked exactly how it should & actually better. I'm not saying the pinpointers were copied to a point there bodied design ya that was if it wasn't for aftermarket companies there really wouldnt be much of anything no speed shops, for cars. Ect

 

[christo000]

So I guess that also means if anyone buys a rain/dust cover unless the company there machine came from sold it to them there also theives, all it is someone who liked the product saw,an issue worked on it extensivly solved the problem they had hardly a thief

 

[Longhair]

So I guess that also means if anyone buys a rain/dust cover unless the company there machine came from sold it to them there also theives, all it is someone who liked the product saw,an issue worked on it extensivly solved the problem they had hardly a thief

If the cover were protected by being patented, then you'd be correct. In the case of Xterra coils however, there was no problem solved or improvement made by NEL. They (NEL) simply exist in a country that doesn't observe U.S. or international patent law, and they take full advantage of that fact.

FWIW, I don't know about you, but I would rather spend my hard earned on a product that was properly developed in cooperation with the technology innovator than a product that was produced in opposition to the designer.

 

[christo000]

If the cover were protected by being patented, then you'd be correct. In the case of Xterra coils however, there was no problem solved or improvement made by NEL. They (NEL) simply exist in a country that doesn't observe U.S. or international patent law, and they take full advantage of that fact.

FWIW, I don't know about you, but I would rather spend my hard earned on a product that was properly developed in cooperation with the technology innovator than a product that was produced in opposition to the designer.

No on the covers what I'm saying is its like the coils k u say there stealing because there made for minelabe but minelabe didn't say ok, cover places make covers for various brands so they didn't go get ok from minelab saying yes u can make a cover for it they did it. As of problem solved or a problem you don't know how everyone feels someone may like one thing another may not. You haven't used an nel so there for u don't really know how it works. But this is just gonna be an on goin thing u have your thoughts I aswell have mine to so to each is own

 

[dirtscratcher]

Longhair you don't like them but I do they work great Just letting the op now there are more choices than you list sometimes you company guys are a little testy

 

[Longhair]

Longhair you don't like them but I do they work great Just letting the op now there are more choices than you list sometimes you company guys are a little testy

What makes you think that I'm a "company guy"? I do not, nor have I ever worked for or received any money or support from Minelab.
I do however know the difference between right and wrong, and stealing someone else's hard work developing new technology is wrong.

 

[Spaceport]

Hmmm let me see here I am not incorrect...I never stated that itwas legal for any of the coils to be sold anywhere....I simply stated that the coils will work and you do not have to watch some video that I never even knew exisited and prese combinations of buttons....simply plug the coil in and turn the machine in amd it works......I know you get way bent out of shape on this subject and everyone is titled to their opinion....all I am stating is that the firmware is either a rumor or scare tactic to make people afraid to spend money on aftermarket coils or that the aftermarket coils have worked around said firmware....so in saying this I am simply telling the truth....I am not saying if it is right or not so that being said not sure how you think in any way I can be "wrong"

 

[Longhair]

X-TERRA Coil Compatibility | Minelab News

 

[Spaceport]

Well aware of this and it is false information...maybe not on Minelabs part but I am telling you the aftermarket coils have either figured out the technology with the chip or worked around it somehow...that is all I am saying because I know it is true and that they will work without coming up as error...I have seen this to be true on several brand new X-Terras not just older ones

 

[Spaceport]

Longhair do tou have a link to the videos you mentioned? The ones showing pressing combinations to force acceptance...I cannot find any like this on youtube....I am curious to see them

 

[Longhair]

Well aware of this and it is false information...maybe not on Minelabs part but I am telling you the aftermarket coils have either figured out the technology with the chip or worked around it somehow...that is all I am saying because I know it is true and that they will work without coming up as error...I have seen this to be true on several brand new X-Terras not just older ones

There is only so much that Minelab can do to protect their technology and still remain downwardly compatible, so it is entirely possible that the thieves have found a way around Minelab's effort. Thieves are like that.

Longhair do tou have a link to the videos you mentioned? The ones showing pressing combinations to force acceptance...I cannot find any like this on youtube....I am curious to see them

I do not have them (I have no need for them), nor will I seek them to post, but I have seen them and they are out there.

Question: Have you ever been the victim of ID theft? I mean REAL ID theft, not just some punk swiping your credit card info or hacking your debit account.
I have. And it was Eastern Europeans (Ukrainians to be specific) that did it. I wasn't even aware of it until I was contacted by a collection agency about an unpaid bill from a credit card that I never had. They changed my address, and even had my former in-law's address listed as one of my former addresses (I never lived there either). They applied for 6 credit cards in 2 days (until they got a greedy bank to issue one), ran it up, and of course never paid. I now have a self imposed 7yr freeze on my credit to prevent any new credit to be established in my name.

Now maybe it has made me more sensitive to theft via technology by people in former com-bloc countries, but regardless, theft is theft. Producing a patent protected product w/o license is theft just the same as if someone entering your home w/o authorization and taking your possessions is. Do you buy stolen items? Would you buy someone's detector knowing it to be stolen?
Unlike NEL, Coiltek went through a lengthy negotiation and development process with Minelab to be able to legally produce Xterra coils, and I see NO reason to buy a stolen product when a legal one is available.