Wrecking history of the Bahamas

[sphillips]

Got an ambergris buyer now on spanish wells. Im sure they sell direct to bahamasambergris.com....the bahamian buyers are middle men, and although they will pay cash on the spot....its possible to double your money with French or Asian buyers....they will fly in and pay you with whatever you like. Dollars, euros, bahamian dollars, and I know someone who requested bahamian gold coins....im pretty sure they took cash and bought gold before they sailed home to the keys !! Just got wind of a find on san salvador. 21 pounds got 120,000$ a group of us keep contact about who's finding what and where !! Its my turn next....wife says were going to the outer banks for summer vacation....I said have fun ill be in sansal and long island hunting the gris !!

Interesting how "ambergris" is spelled in the window

 

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[Blak bart]

Bahamian accent....sometimes they spell the accent !! Its quite funny. Ill give you an example: hey bouy...I gun go get da gold mon...you gun cum vit me? Now in english: hey steve...im gonna go get the gold...hey man are you gonna come with me ? If you've ever texted with a Bahamian thats what its like. Some of us keys guys can talk and text in quite the same way, and you will see islamoradamark and I message each other like that even here on t-net !! Haaaa ha. I know you've herd the keys accent steve...us conchs start sounding funny after a few rums. Islanders sound funny !!

 

[Blak bart]

Even at church....the wreckers have put there touch on things, and one can see salvaged ballast stones from the 1733 spanish galleon "san pedro". And yes the name of the church is SAN PEDRO. These stones are decorating the steps at the entrance to the church !!

 

[Blak bart]

Maybe there's a coin stuck to one of those ballast stones....chip chip chip...whats that noise....old black bart trying to chip a ballast stone out of the church wall at 3am in the morning !! But father i was gonna give the silver coin to the church !! Aaarrrgh it be old black bart hung in chains in the church yard !!

 

[sphillips]

Bahamian accent....sometimes they spell the accent !! Its quite funny. Ill give you an example: hey bouy...I gun go get da gold mon...you gun cum vit me? Now in english: hey steve...im gonna go get the gold...hey man are you gonna come with me ? If you've ever texted with a Bahamian thats what its like. Some of us keys guys can talk and text in quite the same way, and you will see islamoradamark and I message each other like that even here on t-net !! Haaaa ha. I know you've herd the keys accent steve...us conchs start sounding funny after a few rums. Islanders sound funny !!

Ha! I was visiting a friend in Hopetown, Abaco. We were walking down to the dock, and I said to Pete, "What kind of Bahamian tree is that?" he said, "that's a gillimalee"(?). I said, "that looks a lot like our Gumbo Limbo trees in the Keys". I finally figured out that is how the Bahamians say Gumbo Limbo, just real fast and run the two words together. Laughed my a$$ off

 

[sphillips]

Even at church....the wreckers have put there touch on things, and one can see salvaged ballast stones from the 1733 spanish galleon "san pedro". And yes the name of the church is SAN PEDRO. These stones are decorating the steps at the entrance to the church !!

Plantation Key?

 

[Blak bart]

Plantation Key?

Yes sir steve....community island churches and shipwrecks often have a common thread alot of the time somehow, someway. I know you know this church...just not alot of people pay attention to this detail of the church. Do you remember it ?

 

[Blak bart]

Just another abandoned boat in the Florida keys.....blown on shore and left to die. You don't think I'm gonna go rummage like any other wrecker would....of coarse im gonna strip whatever I think I can easily get and sell or trade !! Its been like that for as long as I've been alive....here and in the bahamas !! If this thing is marked by coast guard or law enforcement as derilict....Im stripping what I want before the tax payers pay for it to be removed and broken up and diposed of. Modern day wrecking...it never stopped. Once its marked and left, you can claim salvage rights and start the process of getting ownership.....most of these vessels will cost more than there worth to get repaired and going. I pass through like a buzzard and cherry pick before most others...if its worth it. I got some beautiful treasure before including 2 sheets of 2 dollar bills once.....they were rolled up in the chart tube with the charts and left to sink....I always look for charts !!

 

[sphillips]

Yes sir steve....community island churches and shipwrecks often have a common thread alot of the time somehow, someway. I know you know this church...just not alot of people pay attention to this detail of the church. Do you remember it ?

Absolutely!

 

[Magoopeter]

Congreve not Congrieve. British smooth bore cannon, also sold to other nations, used by France and Holland.

View attachment 1929832

View attachment 1929833

Congreve, Guns (32-, 24-,18- and 6- pounders)

References have been found beginning late in 1778 and continuing in 1780 to Capt. Congreve's light 6-pounder or to 6-pounders "of the new Construction," all 4-1/2 feet in length and weighing more than 5 hundredweight.
?The relatively smooth lines of the carronade also had an influence on external gun design, especially on the Congreve gun?.
Congreve 24 pounders,
Not only was Congreve's gun lighter and shorter than usual, but it was also
constructed on a new principle; it appeared to be a hybrid of a gun and a carronade. It
was much more conical in shape than a conventional gun, since Congreve had
increased the weight of metal at the breech and around the charging cylinder while
he had reduced it in the chase. This redistribution of metal, he argued, gave the gun
a greater "reacting power," that is, it threw the shot farther than would a
conventionally constructed 24-pounder of the same weight. He had arrived at this
conclusion seemingly more by intuition than by any scientific principles, although he
did cite "the generally received fact of the increased effect in reacting upon, and
propelling the charge produced by the thickened breech in fowling pieces and small
arms; which I conceive must apply with equal force to ordnance."
Since this increase of weight toward the breech moved the centre of gravity
farther back, it was possible to cast the trunnions farther to the rear as well. This
allowed the muzzle to project beyond the port of a ship a greater distance than that
of a conventional 24-pounder of 8 feet and within 9 inches of the muzzle face of the
gun of 9-1/2 feet. The shape of the muzzle was similar to that of a carronade which
allowed it to have more traverse without "wooding" against the side of the port.
Also, Congreve got rid of the old breeching loop; in his gun the breeching passed
through the centre of the neck of the cascable "to equalize the shock of the recoil,
and to obviate the blow upon the coin created by the old construction." He also
designed a dispart sight cast on the ring in front of the trunnions which allowed the
gun to be fired at three elevations, point blank, 2-1/2, and 5 degrees.
Congreve's arguments to Hope convinced the Lords Commissioners of the
Admiralty to request the Board of Ordnance to put his theory to the test.
Consequently, on 17 February 1813, the Board placed an order with the Carron
Company for two sets of 24-pounders constructed on Congreve's principle, one set to
be cast with trunnions, the other with a loop like a carronade, They were to be
tested against the standard 24-pounder of 9-1/2 feet and 50 hundredweight and two
new guns, designed by Blomefield on the old construction, of 7-1/2 and 8 feet and 40
and 43 hundredweight respectively. Sometime between 15 and 22 November 1813 the
Board of Ordnance conducted trials of the four guns on Sutton Heath; also, early in
October 1813, Congreve's gun had been tested aboard H.M.S. Eurotas. In February
1814, a lighter version of the gun of 7-1/2 feet weighing 37 hundredweight was
successfully tested aboard H.M.S. Pactolus, The results were so favourable that 300
more Congreve 24-pounders were ordered to be cast. In 1820, Congreve noted that
700 of his guns had been manufactured, some with trunnions in the axis of the piece,
some with trunnions in the lower half of the barrel as usual, and some with loops like
a carronade.95 According to Mould in 1825, these guns were assigned to the "Upper
Deck of first rates, quarter deck and Forecastle of 2nd. rates.

 

[Smithbrown]

You are getting two different Congreve's mixed up. The Congreve 6 pounder in the 1770s/1780s was a bronze field gun and was designed by the father, William Congreve, senior.

The gunnade had been in production before William Congreve junior (inventor of the Congreve Rocket) began his experiments with the Congreve gun. But most gunnades were produced for the merchant service, not the British government.

 

[Smithbrown]

Here's the Congreves father and son with a field gun Portrait of Captain William Congreve with his Son William – Objects – National Gallery of Ireland

 

[Magoopeter]

You are getting two different Congreve's mixed up. The Congreve 6 pounder in the 1770s/1780s was a bronze field gun and was designed by the father, William Congreve, senior.

The gunnade had been in production before William Congreve junior (inventor of the Congreve Rocket) began his experiments with the Congreve gun. But most gunnades were produced for the merchant service, not the British government.

The Information relates to Captain William Congreve, and his son, it confirms there were more than two Congreve designs, a variety of calibres and production dates.
Encyclopaedia Of Markings and Decoration On Artillery is a good reference, The photo and description of a 9 pounder Congreve gun is from the encyclopaedia. Naval ships first rate and second-rate ships refer to HMS.
You would really need to exam both sets of guns to make a proper judgment, but It appears both the museum examples and the destressed examples are very alike your deeply knowledgeable so I would defer to your judgement.
I have some good material from my friend head of ordnance at a well-known museum, might be of interest to you, 1.5 GB on disk, if you want PM me your email and ill upload it to my one drive and send you a link to download. All the best,
Lifted this one?

 

[WRECKING]

View attachment 1929697View attachment 1929698
Believe this is an english mortar ? Not 100 % sure what this type of gun is actually called ? My memory could be wrong but i thought this was an english made mortar...ill have to crack a book to be certain !!

Jack had a gold coin hanging on his neck. One day, sitting in the shade of the coconut trees, gazing over the deep blue waters of the Gulf Stream, over over 3 fingers of Watling's rum, he told me where it came from.
He described the passage that gave access to the Bank between 2 rocks where a cannon had been found. Just one cannon, nothing else. They pulled the cannon up and brought it to port. Chipping away at the incrustation, they found this gold coin, stuck to the cannon. (sorry, I forgot the date of the coin).
Some time later I went to check out the spot. As we got to the inlet, a strong tidal rip came out of the Bank. The skiff, towed behind the stern of the boat, got swamped. I had a bit of a struggle bailing it with a bucket fast enough for the outboard not to be drowned. Anyway, we got through the cut and anchored in the calm water close to the inlet.
Once the tide slowed down we jumped in the water. Just bare rock. No sign of any wreckage.
Did the ship got wrecked and the tidal current, it must be about 4 knots, push the ship into deep water?
A bit away from the entrance, the sand, covered by eel grass started. Metal detecting the edge where the sand was not deep, we found square iron nails and rigging parts. Were these from the same shipwreck?
No ballast in sight.
But, there is more to the story.... for another day.

 

[WRECKING]

Jack loved to tell the story about the gold coin. One day he told it to Mr. Engels. Mr. Engels joined a group of tourists snorkeling in the area. While the tourists looked at the colorful parrotfish, Mr. Engels, being a highly skilled pro treasure hunter with very sharp eyes, scanned the bottom for any slightest sign of the elusive shipwreck. He hand- fanned every nook and crevice and lo and behold he’s keen eyes focused on a glitter of gold. A few links of a fine gold chain stuck in a crack between the rocks. Carefully he removed a few bits of staghorn corral. A few more links became visible. As he uncovered inches and more inches of the gold chain, his excitement grew faster than the length of chain. The crack between the rocks continued under a ledge. He kept digging. By now he was thinking what might be at the end of the gold chain. Maybe a locket? Maybe a cameo? Or maybe even an emerald cross?
In the meantime the snorkeling time of the tourists was over. The boat had to return to the home base. Mr. Engels stuck the gold chain back into the crack in the rocks, under the ledge. Then he rolled a few large boulders of fire coral in front of the ledge to hide the spot. True story, Mr. Engels himself told it to me.
No, no, no,….the story is not finished yet. Next time I will tell the rest of the story.

 

[Blak bart]

I know this story and I know that location....seems others have told me the same story.....but continue....we shall see. Sounds like something I've herd before. Not down as far as riding rock, but not as far north as Bimini proper. I know someone else here on t-net who could finish this story also. I have not been to confirm it but I was told of a scatter trail that leads over the ledge and into the deep away from the gold chain spot. Seems its also the spot of a swim with the sharks type encounter....I pass this spot many times but have never stopped to look. This spot is due east of another major tourist attraction !!

 

[Blak bart]

Tomorrow my friend is going to cat key....I took the time to show him last night the spot, and the story behind the gold chain spot !!

The bank has other spots with similar stories also...can't wait to here the rest of the story to compare notes with what I've herd.

 

[Blak bart]

3 months ago I had some great digging and found some treasure at a spot where salvors/wreckers had come ashore and set up a camp for the salvage of the 1733 fleet. I timed my search to coincide with a major construction project taking place at the site. As they dug with heavy equipment I would scan the spoils before it was loaded into trucks and carried off. I was in contact with the company that hauled all the sand and spoils away. I found 6 treasure fleet coins, but we thought the rest was gone. Well yesterday the company called me and they have found a 1733 pillar dollar in some of the sand that they hauled out of the spot. So after 3 months ill go 100 miles from where the sand was moved and search for more treasure !!

 

[WRECKING]

I know this story and I know that location....seems others have told me the same story.....but continue....we shall see. Sounds like something I've herd before. Not down as far as riding rock, but not as far north as Bimini proper. I know someone else here on t-net who could finish this story also. I have not been to confirm it but I was told of a scatter trail that leads over the ledge and into the deep away from the gold chain spot. Seems its also the spot of a swim with the sharks type encounter....I pass this spot many times but have never stopped to look. This spot is due east of another major tourist attraction !!

I have told the story a few times over the years. Not wanting to hurt anybody's feelings I usually change the names of the persons involved. I even gave away the exact spot with an X marking a cutout of a chart. So it is really not a secret. Every part is true though. We actually spent half a day with Mr. Engels trying to find his gold chain. He told me how looking up while digging, he saw the mast of the radio tower in front of him. Anyway, when we were there with him, we did not find the chain. Or maybe he did while we were looking the other way? We spent most of the time trying to find some trail to follow. Mr. Engels had something like an affinity for gold. Gold seemed to stick to his fingers.

You probably mean the concrete ship due East?

 

[WRECKING]

Tomorrow my friend is going to cat key....I took the time to show him last night the spot, and the story behind the gold chain spot !!

The bank has other spots with similar stories also...can't wait to here the rest of the story to compare notes with what I've herd.

I described what I saw at Riding Rocks. Something very similar could be said for every rock along the bank. Every passage between the rocks. Shipwreck upon shipwreck. Of all ages. Without having any specific information one gets lost within all the wreckage trails.