WHY ARE YOU HERE?

[Rebel - KGC]

I have given information that I can at this time . I now for a fact that the Beale Papers are real . I have shown that there is in fact a Captain Thomas Beale with proof and have found the proof that people talk about but are not willing to put forth about the topic . In a debate you have to show proof of your case this has not been done at all by them that say the Beale Papers are not real . They just keep talking without backing up there facts .

One item stands out the most, the death of a Thomas Beale in New Orleans newspaper story . There were 6 Thomas Beale's in the New Orleans area at the time, to say that was Captain Thomas Beale is what a fictional author would do, not someone wanting the truth . Finding the facts for there argument out for myself and to find them lacking is Hilarius .

You will never see my work on the Beale Ciphers there not up for debate and will not be . ECS has stated that the Diary is in fact not real case closed

As SECRETIVE as North Korea...

 

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[ECS]

.. I have shown that there is in fact a Captain Thomas Beale with proof and have found the proof that people talk about but are not willing to put forth about the topic ...

Was he a man of color?

 

[ECS]

... ECS has stated that the Diary is in fact not real case closed

...and when did I state that?

 

[bigscoop]

I have given information that I can at this time . I now for a fact that the Beale Papers are real . I have shown that there is in fact a Captain Thomas Beale with proof and have found the proof that people talk about but are not willing to put forth about the topic . In a debate you have to show proof of your case this has not been done at all by them that say the Beale Papers are not real . They just keep talking without backing up there facts .

One item stands out the most, the death of a Thomas Beale in New Orleans newspaper story . There were 6 Thomas Beale's in the New Orleans area at the time, to say that was Captain Thomas Beale is what a fictional author would do, not someone wanting the truth . Finding the facts for there argument out for myself and to find them lacking is Hilarius .

You will never see my work on the Beale Ciphers there not up for debate and will not be . ECS has stated that the Diary is in fact not real case closed

Nobody is arguing that Captain Thomas Beale's, or that Thomas Beale's exited, this has all been well known for quite a long time. The issue is that of a Thomas J. Beale, or TJB. If we selectively toss out the "J" then yes, there becomes several possibilities, but when we include the "J" offered us in the pamphlet then there is only one known match.

 

[CrypticLibrarian]

It is amazing that this debate is even taking place, when for all intents and purposes the 1885 Beale Papers is a work of fiction, or a least an allegory to which Bigscoop alludes. If the Hart's did not revive this pamphlet, and if Pauline Innis didn't write her book. all this discussion would be moot.

Yet again as my previous comment has said, no one can really prove this until the cipher is solved. Now why would someone write an unsolvable cipher simply for a work of fiction? Would it not be ideal to make a cipher in which an average intellectual at the time could solve in order to further the legitimacy of the story?

Quite frankly it is your own opinion that it is fiction, and it is up to you and only you to convince others that you are right with proof to back it up.

Calling it a hoax without accurate sources is a foolish action.

(P.S Please look up the definition of moot, as i believe you have used it wrong )

 

[CrypticLibrarian]

"Let me tell you why someone who figured this out SHOULDN'T take your advice. You see it would be selfish, deceitful, and folly to figure this out and dig up the treasure with no heed to the scientific world."

The above quote is respectful?

The scientific world is not underwriting him and reimbursing his grubstake. Nor is there any guarantee he would see any profit ,if sought.
He/some one , may not seek notoriety for any number of reasons. Really.
Besides, being recognized means no more peaceful living , including being a target vs quietly going along on your own discreet way.

I feel no need to explain to science why I have a hundred dollars more than any debt owed when others do not.
They did not study my well being when I did not , nor support my efforts to get to such a point.
Despite the fact that if everyone had a hundred beyond their debt the world would be a better place.
A windfall digested trumps a life in the public eye for some.
Let science sort codes itself if it refuses to underwrite those working on codes independently or even acknowledge their findings prior to a proven recovery.

Archaeological channels?
L.o.l.
The least supportive of the two. Any one not in a certain clique (or funding them) is a pot-hunter, history destroyer or Indiana Jones. No not all in the field feel that way , but the ones that do outnumber them. Found that out in class real quick.
What would an archaeologist need from the Beale Treasure..Context? Culture? Samples of specie?
Let them break code and recover it to satisfactory proof with no support from any one else, that's what they expect of the O.P..

Yet some would still act surprised and condemn some one who would not stand on a public stage and claim the code solved or a recovery made then hand it over to science...

Testable explanations and predictions abound. They do not have to be sourced from the work of some one outside the support , respect and funding of a science that holds it's hand out for the results of another's field of efforts arrived at independently.

The quote you have stated if you read it has no statements concerning franklin. Other than the whole point of the post, to discourage anyone from taking this advice and going the route of less friction, there are no statements concerning him at all. I stated that IF someone was to take his advice what characters would be showing, and trying to put forth the realization that by taking this advice you are only showing greed.

As for your main arguments, they are latent with opinion so i shall skip over much of that.

Bottom line is that an individual working on his own cannot get much done without using personal funds in which may not pay off in the end if the treasure has been found, moved, or damaged in some way unrepairable. To many, this would mean that the cipher is useless. Yet just solving the cipher in itself would be an accomplishment so great, that the treasure could not ever compare.

Through this i have one question, in what way would you be a target? Those who are worried about privacy can simply give credit to the firm. university, or team that has helped them retrieve the treasure. With a document outlining that you were the original source of the information hidden away but still signed by the owner of the entity given credit, you will still get a cut, be safe from the public eye, and can live peacefully with the money you have gained.

For those worried about becoming the target of attacks. Why exactly would someone target you? If you were smart most of the money would go into a bank where it would be safe from being stolen, the treasure would have already been found so interest in finding it would be misguided, the codes would have already been published in your name, and you would live your life knowing you have made an achievement of great proportions.

There is a guarantee of profit as long as you conduct business in a professional manner, no businessman leaves all his cards out before he has full confidence in winning. That is indeed why you would hire an attorney to help deal with these affairs. (A case they would indeed jump onto do to the potential profit and exposure for his firm. They would be obliged to do a very good job as well, as if you do not get payed for your find, they do not either.)

I will admit that the scientific world has much bias, though it still works. Once you know the right processes, people, and channels you would be giving yourself a chance at a very bright future.

(P.S Your comments about sources quite frankly do not make sense. I believe you are trying to make a counter-argument for an argument hat was not there. If you could rephrase them a bit that would be really helpful! )

 

[franklin]

The quote you have stated if you read it has no statements concerning franklin. Other than the whole point of the post, to discourage anyone from taking this advice and going the route of less friction, there are no statements concerning him at all. I stated that IF someone was to take his advice what characters would be showing, and trying to put forth the realization that by taking this advice you are only showing greed.

As for your main arguments, they are latent with opinion so i shall skip over much of that.

Bottom line is that an individual working on his own cannot get much done without using personal funds in which may not pay off in the end if the treasure has been found, moved, or damaged in some way unrepairable. To many, this would mean that the cipher is useless. Yet just solving the cipher in itself would be an accomplishment so great, that the treasure could not ever compare.

Through this i have one question, in what way would you be a target? Those who are worried about privacy can simply give credit to the firm. university, or team that has helped them retrieve the treasure. With a document outlining that you were the original source of the information hidden away but still signed by the owner of the entity given credit, you will still get a cut, be safe from the public eye, and can live peacefully with the money you have gained.

For those worried about becoming the target of attacks. Why exactly would someone target you? If you were smart most of the money would go into a bank where it would be safe from being stolen, the treasure would have already been found so interest in finding it would be misguided, the codes would have already been published in your name, and you would live your life knowing you have made an achievement of great proportions.

There is a guarantee of profit as long as you conduct business in a professional manner, no businessman leaves all his cards out before he has full confidence in winning. That is indeed why you would hire an attorney to help deal with these affairs. (A case they would indeed jump onto do to the potential profit and exposure for his firm. They would be obliged to do a very good job as well, as if you do not get payed for your find, they do not either.)

I will admit that the scientific world has much bias, though it still works. Once you know the right processes, people, and channels you would be giving yourself a chance at a very bright future.

(P.S Your comments about sources quite frankly do not make sense. I believe you are trying to make a counter-argument for an argument hat was not there. If you could rephrase them a bit that would be really helpful! )

All right I will give you a chance. Say we decoded a message that would lead us to the/a treasure whom would you have us contact?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

...and when did I state that?

12, 36, 867, 967, 352, 984, 435, 253, 914, 534, 231, 10, 100, 862,

A simple code that will let you know .

 

[CrypticLibrarian]

All right I will give you a chance. Say we decoded a message that would lead us to the/a treasure whom would you have us contact?

Depends on an immense number of variables based on position, location, circumstance, and history. Not to mention anything that may come from the ever-changing history and story of the Beale Ciphers and what your decodement may entail for such. The first person you would want to contact is an attorney in order to ask questions about cut, copyrights, laws surrounding a case such as this, and the many many other procedures preceding any meeting with a entity with the resources and credentials to bring about an operation. I am not personally associated or familiar with any attorney in which would specialize in a case such as this nor am i sure if there is one. It is highly likely that one such exist somewhere though.

Yet all of this is only if you have all of your information in order and that validation of your sources comes from accredited masters and teachers of cryptography, archaeology, geology, and experts in historical events of that time. Solid proof would only come if the location is tested in various ways to confirm that there is some truth to the location of the treasure.

All of this must be backed up by logical reasoning to draw out conclusions that match your decoded message.

With all of this in mind, remember that with the immense number of variables and circumstances one could be in at that time, you cannot just simply create a completely accurate example of the steps that need to be taken in order to achieve your goal.

(P.S. I would like you to elaborate on what you mean by "I will give you a chance". Are you beginning to understand the point i have been trying to convey?)

 

[ECS]

Yet again as my previous comment has said, no one can really prove this until the cipher is solved. Now why would someone write an unsolvable cipher simply for a work of fiction? Would it not be ideal to make a cipher in which an average intellectual at the time could solve in order to further the legitimacy of the story?
Quite frankly it is your own opinion that it is fiction, and it is up to you and only you to convince others that you are right with proof to back it up.
Calling it a hoax without accurate sources is a foolish action...

I never said the Beale Papers were a hoax, but rather a dime adventure/treasure novel with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment.
Now consider that the only living person mentioned at the time the pamphlet was produced for sale, was Max Guggenheimer, who sold copies at his store.
Two years prior to the publication, there was a fire in Lynchburg.
Guggenheimer was a Freemason, as some others connected to the Beale Papers, who conducted many charity projects in Lynchburg.
It is quite possible that the Beale pamphlet was created to help the Lynchburg fire victims.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Nobody is arguing that Captain Thomas Beale's, or that Thomas Beale's exited, this has all been well known for quite a long time. The issue is that of a Thomas J. Beale, or TJB. If we selectively toss out the "J" then yes, there becomes several possibilities, but when we include the "J" offered us in the pamphlet then there is only one known match.

Who was born in 1847...? Tell us MORE!

 

[CrypticLibrarian]

I never said the Beale Papers were a hoax, but rather a dime adventure/treasure novel with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment.
Now consider that the only living person mentioned at the time the pamphlet was produced for sale, was Max Guggenheimer, who sold copies at his store.
Two years prior to the publication, there was a fire in Lynchburg.
Guggenheimer was a Freemason, as some others connected to the Beale Papers, who conducted many charity projects in Lynchburg.
It is quite possible that the Beale pamphlet was created to help the Lynchburg fire victims.

Please reread the quote you commented on. The questions still lay unanswered.

 

[bigscoop]

Who was born in 1847...? Tell us MORE!

I have no idea what you're referencing?

 

[releventchair]

The quote you have stated if you read it has no statements concerning franklin. Other than the whole point of the post, to discourage anyone from taking this advice and going the route of less friction, there are no statements concerning him at all. I stated that IF someone was to take his advice what characters would be showing, and trying to put forth the realization that by taking this advice you are only showing greed.

As for your main arguments, they are latent with opinion so i shall skip over much of that.

Bottom line is that an individual working on his own cannot get much done without using personal funds in which may not pay off in the end if the treasure has been found, moved, or damaged in some way unrepairable. To many, this would mean that the cipher is useless. Yet just solving the cipher in itself would be an accomplishment so great, that the treasure could not ever compare.

Through this i have one question, in what way would you be a target? Those who are worried about privacy can simply give credit to the firm. university, or team that has helped them retrieve the treasure. With a document outlining that you were the original source of the information hidden away but still signed by the owner of the entity given credit, you will still get a cut, be safe from the public eye, and can live peacefully with the money you have gained.

For those worried about becoming the target of attacks. Why exactly would someone target you? If you were smart most of the money would go into a bank where it would be safe from being stolen, the treasure would have already been found so interest in finding it would be misguided, the codes would have already been published in your name, and you would live your life knowing you have made an achievement of great proportions.

There is a guarantee of profit as long as you conduct business in a professional manner, no businessman leaves all his cards out before he has full confidence in winning. That is indeed why you would hire an attorney to help deal with these affairs. (A case they would indeed jump onto do to the potential profit and exposure for his firm. They would be obliged to do a very good job as well, as if you do not get payed for your find, they do not either.)

I will admit that the scientific world has much bias, though it still works. Once you know the right processes, people, and channels you would be giving yourself a chance at a very bright future.

(P.S Your comments about sources quite frankly do not make sense. I believe you are trying to make a counter-argument for an argument hat was not there. If you could rephrase them a bit that would be really helpful! )

Having a Lord Carnarvon is not a prerequisite for treasure hunting.
Depending on the requirements money needed will vary of course but if not self financed the obligation is to those providing such.
Depending on terms and or contract the individual breaking code may have no legal right to divulge any success or even a lack thereof.
Was Howard a target? Who claimed he was a thief? Perhaps he longed to be held in the public eye...maybe another Howard has no interest in being recognized when in the field pursuing a different /new matter.
An attorney needed to defend an only perceived right to any profit (consider the civil claims alone that would arise from relatives and complete strangers to cipher related folks that truly/ justifiably originated or not would require defense $$$"s.)

Money in a bank is perhaps your accepted method of securing wealth.
Trusting the specie itself , the dismal return exchanged for loaning it to a bank , monitoring by others of large amounts moved about and the transferring of tangible wealth to an electronic medium would make other forms of value seem more alluring indeed , though not to you for some reason.
No one would have any interest in trying to access you,yours or your accounts to reduce them. Very good then!
Leverage for humanitarian reasons where science and standard philanthropy are failing or absent can go farther than personal notoriety or a slice of "the pie" in an account.
Greed ,graft and corruption, politics ect.. are just some of the barriers between people being helped to help themselves.
My comment about sources are that those individuals , unsupported financially by science and are individuals , making breakthroughs/discoveries and recoveries ; have no obligation to submit or share them with science as you allude to. Though they may if they so desire.
Only those who's master(s) are networked into and controlled by funding derived from/ to science owe obligation to surrender their works results to science.
For others it depends on whom they are obliged to , if any one , to direct their next move.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Having a Lord Carnarvon is not a prerequisite for treasure hunting.
Depending on the requirements money needed will vary of course but if not self financed the obligation is to those providing such.
Depending on terms and or contract the individual breaking code may have no legal right to divulge any success or even a lack thereof.
Was Howard a target? Who claimed he was a thief? Perhaps he longed to be held in the public eye...maybe another Howard has no interest in being recognized when in the field pursuing a different /new matter.
An attorney needed to defend an only perceived right to any profit (consider the civil claims alone that would arise from relatives and complete strangers to cipher related folks that truly/ justifiably originated or not would require defense $$$"s.)

Money in a bank is perhaps your accepted method of securing wealth.
Trusting the specie itself , the dismal return exchanged for loaning it to a bank , monitoring by others of large amounts moved about and the transferring of tangible wealth to an electronic medium would make other forms of value seem more alluring indeed , though not to you for some reason.
No one would have any interest in trying to access you,yours or your accounts to reduce them. Very good then!
Leverage for humanitarian reasons where science and standard philanthropy are failing or absent can go farther than personal notoriety or a slice of "the pie" in an account.
Greed ,graft and corruption, politics ect.. are just some of the barriers between people being helped to help themselves.
My comment about sources are that those individuals , unsupported financially by science and are individuals , making breakthroughs/discoveries and recoveries ; have no obligation to submit or share them with science as you allude to. Though they may if they so desire.
Only those who's master(s) are networked into and controlled by funding derived from/ to science owe obligation to surrender their works results to science.
For others it depends on whom they are obliged to , if any one , to direct their next move.

 

[ECS]

...
Quite frankly it is your own opinion that it is fiction, and it is up to you and only you to convince others that you are right with proof to back it up.

Quite frankly, there exists NO outside evidence that will corroborate that anything in the Beale Papers ever occurred, which leads one to the observation that even if the minor details in the Beale text narrative can not be proven as ever happening from an outside source, the storyline is fiction.
If the storyline is fiction, it casts doubt on the validity of the two unsolved ciphers, which are considered as fruit from the poisoned tree.
Now, CL, if you can present evidence that can prove otherwise, make it so.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I have no idea what you're referencing?

In a previous "post", it was "stated" by you or Tat, that YOUR Alderman TJB of Jackson Ward in Richmond... was born in 1847.

 

[bigscoop]

In a previous "post", it was "stated" by you or Tat, that YOUR Alderman TJB of Jackson Ward in Richmond... was born in 1847.

No. You are mistaken. That was never stated at all.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

No. You are mistaken. That was never stated at all.

Well, I KNOW what I read... tell us MORE about YOUR Thomas J. Beale, Alderman of Jackson Ward in Richmond; BIRTH DATE, SERVICE DATE, DEATH DATE; wanna do R & I on it...

 

[bigscoop]

Well, I KNOW what I read... tell us MORE about YOUR Thomas J. Beale, Alderman of Jackson Ward in Richmond; BIRTH DATE, SERVICE DATE, DEATH DATE; wanna do R & I on it...

Man, what is with everyone lately? If you can find where I referenced a birth date of 1847 by all means please quote it and re-post it. I've not removed any of my post so if I said it then it should be easy to find and re-post.