Whiskey Springs Maps

[SPARTANOC]

Angel Basin was a feint. He burned there some less worth paintings, in regards to give the impression he would hide there the more valuable. He didn't. What Robert Ward wrote was true. They hid the paintings in the same way and at the same place with another set of stone maps ( not like the known from the Museum ), in a covered up abandoned mine from another region.

And exactly HOW would you know this?

We know he burned paintings in that area - as it was reported well, by those who watched the burning of said paintings AND the media. We also already know that most of what was burned DID NOT have the value as others of his work, did.

As for the Stone maps you've mentioned here - is something new or at least new to my hearing of things. Can you elaborate?

-SpartanOC

 

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[markmar]

The stone tablets i was referring to, was Bob Ward's. He found them while searching in the Superstitions. Not Peralta (NP) from my signature was a partner and friend with Bob Ward. He was the person who has been with Bob that night at Crystal Spring when they saw the flying ghost of a woman. They searched together many places in the Superstitions for few years, and Bob trusted him with some things. One of this things was where the stone maps and the De Grazia paintings are buried.
NP was his username in this forum but I know his real name. What I will quote below as NP statements, were posted randomly by him in different threads, but nobody paid attention and in the most cases, few members here ( the known with this behavior ) derided him. Here is what he mentioned:

" The "Dios" rock and his hand drawn DeGrazia map lead to a mine and a mine shaft that may still hold his two stone tablets. The last time I saw them, that's where they were at.
Some people were more interested in arguing than looking at why I knew certain things. I, personally was starting to feel the same way as Bob Ward. Why shouldn't these things be lost forever? None the less, there are two hidden stone tablets. Both are a lot older than the famous stone tablets and both do not resemble the stone tablets. One of the tablets has a heart insertion on the left hand side and it's different than the heart insertion on the famous stone tablets. On both tablets, the writing is different. Both tablets have sheep or lambs and bulls on them. The tablets are carved on both sides. They also show a star constellation and a pyramid with a line over the top of it. They also show a massive underground tunnel systems in different locations with rooms. In my opinion the lambs and sheep and bulls represent two different groups of people.
Now, you have the so-called DeGrazia map of Bob's, which really gives the location of where the two tablets were kept. If you go to the spot indicated on the map (which I'm sure is covered by now), the entrance was just a 6 or 7 foot hole, then turns to the left, with a smaller shaft which goes back 7 or 8 feet. Then the shaft goes straight down. It is full of water. On the left hand side of the shaft, at water level, you will find a metal spike driven into the wall. The two tablets were sealed good in plastic and tape and were in a fishing net connected to the spike. It's all below water level. "

In another posts he mentioned the distances from a specific spot to a water source, and from there, the distance to the mine. No directions mentioned but are depicted on the Bob's book map.

 

[cuzimloony]

Angel Basin was a feint. He burned there some less worth paintings, in regards to give the impression he would hide there the more valuable. He didn't. What Robert Ward wrote was true. They hid the paintings in the same way and at the same place with another set of stone maps ( not like the known from the Museum ), in a covered up abandoned mine from another region.

I have heard this before too.....

 

[cuzimloony]

The stone tablets i was referring to, was Bob Ward's. He found them while searching in the Superstitions. Not Peralta (NP) from my signature was a partner and friend with Bob Ward. He was the person who has been with Bob that night at Crystal Spring when they saw the flying ghost of a woman. They searched together many places in the Superstitions for few years, and Bob trusted him with some things. One of this things was where the stone maps and the De Grazia paintings are buried.
NP was his username in this forum but I know his real name. What I will quote below as NP statements, were posted randomly by him in different threads, but nobody paid attention and in the most cases, few members here ( the known with this behavior ) derided him. Here is what he mentioned:

" The "Dios" rock and his hand drawn DeGrazia map lead to a mine and a mine shaft that may still hold his two stone tablets. The last time I saw them, that's where they were at.
Some people were more interested in arguing than looking at why I knew certain things. I, personally was starting to feel the same way as Bob Ward. Why shouldn't these things be lost forever? None the less, there are two hidden stone tablets. Both are a lot older than the famous stone tablets and both do not resemble the stone tablets. One of the tablets has a heart insertion on the left hand side and it's different than the heart insertion on the famous stone tablets. On both tablets, the writing is different. Both tablets have sheep or lambs and bulls on them. The tablets are carved on both sides. They also show a star constellation and a pyramid with a line over the top of it. They also show a massive underground tunnel systems in different locations with rooms. In my opinion the lambs and sheep and bulls represent two different groups of people.
Now, you have the so-called DeGrazia map of Bob's, which really gives the location of where the two tablets were kept. If you go to the spot indicated on the map (which I'm sure is covered by now), the entrance was just a 6 or 7 foot hole, then turns to the left, with a smaller shaft which goes back 7 or 8 feet. Then the shaft goes straight down. It is full of water. On the left hand side of the shaft, at water level, you will find a metal spike driven into the wall. The two tablets were sealed good in plastic and tape and were in a fishing net connected to the spike. It's all below water level. "

In another posts he mentioned the distances from a specific spot to a water source, and from there, the distance to the mine. No directions mentioned but are depicted on the Bob's book map.

I didn't hear all THAT though......

 

[SPARTANOC]

I didn't hear all THAT though......

It's kind of hard to believe De Grazia put his paintings in a Mine shaft of some kind. I can see him hiding his 'works' in an old Cave of some sort - but a Mine that would eventually flood out or cave in, just doesn't make sense.

 

[cuzimloony]

It's kind of hard to believe De Grazia put his paintings in a Mine shaft of some kind. I can see him hiding his 'works' in an old Cave of some sort - but a Mine that would eventually flood out or cave in, just doesn't make sense.

Bob had a mine. There was a stair-step mine w/i walking distance from his cabin that I've been in. He was reported to have thrown, possibly, more than a body or two, or maybe just evidence, down various mine shafts..... Bob liked mines.
I have no idea where those paintings are...... just saying.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Bob had a mine. There was a stair-step mine w/i walking distance from his cabin that I've been in. He was reported to have thrown, possibly, more than a body or two down various mine shafts..... Bob liked mines.
I have no idea where those paintings are...... just saying.

If any of his paintings were thrown into a Mine - then they were to NEVER be taken out in my opinion.

What I have heard about Bob, is he loved to bury things....drink and "target practice". 🍺

 

[cuzimloony]

If any of his paintings were thrown into a Mine - then they were to NEVER be taken out in my opinion.

What I have heard about Bob, is he loved to bury things....drink and "target practice". 🍺

I meant that honestly, btw.... I have no idea. A mine seems out of the question with DeGrazie, but then you factor in Bob and now those paintings could be anywhere. I have a book called "A Tiny Bit of God's Creation by John Dahlmann." It is a gem of a book and spends a lot of time discussing how Ted went EVERYWHERE in those Sups on horseback. Which means to me......anywhere is open to search for his paintings, I guess. I don't know enough about him or his story to really suggest one place over another. That leaves me with, I have no idea where those paintings are. lol. I wish I could help here.... I'm just really full of questions and hoping you guys keep discussing this so I can learn something.

 

[SPARTANOC]

I meant that honestly, btw.... I have no idea. A mine seems out of the question with DeGrazie, but then you factor in Bob and now those paintings could be anywhere. I have a book called "A Tiny Bit of God's Creation by John Dahlmann." It is a gem of a book and spends a lot of time discussing how Ted went EVERYWHERE in those Sups on horseback. Which means to me......anywhere is open to search for his paintings, I guess. I don't know enough about him or his story to really suggest one place over another. That leaves me with, I have no idea where those paintings are. lol. I wish I could help here.... I'm just really full of questions and hoping you guys keep discussing this so I can learn something.

Absolutely. Keep the conversation going - question everything and keep an open mind. As hard as it seems to fathom - that Bob would have used a mine, it isn't 100% out of the question. As you are correct - Bob went out EVERYWHERE in those Supes. He knew many of the areas we all talk about here on TN. I'm sure some of those old timers are watching this conversation right now - thinking; "Yep he was everywhere in there."

In my research and of "scanning" the whole region via maps, one of my guesses was South of Angel Springs but North of Reavis's Grave site. In a Canyon on the West side, of said Canyon. In my research I came to a somewhat of a conclusion that De Grazia or Bob didn't have to go into the Supes as deep as some may think. I figured they wanted to get in there, deposit said paintings and get out quickly.

It's just my theory of an area to ponder on. I have NO proof of my theory being correct.

I would though - love to hear others here with their own theory as to WHERE a good area might have been utilized by the two gentlemen.

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Absolutely. Keep the conversation going - question everything and keep an open mind. As hard as it seems to fathom - that Bob would have used a mine, it isn't 100% out of the question. As you are correct - Bob went out EVERYWHERE in those Supes. He knew many of the areas we all talk about here on TN. I'm sure some of those old timers are watching this conversation right now - thinking; "Yep he was everywhere in there."

In my research and of "scanning" the whole region via maps, one of my guesses was South of Angel Springs but North of Reavis's Grave site. In a Canyon on the West side, of said Canyon. In my research I came to a somewhat of a conclusion that De Grazia or Bob didn't have to go into the Supes as deep as some may think. I figured they wanted to get in there, deposit said paintings and get out quickly.

It's just my theory of an area to ponder on. I have NO proof of my theory being correct.

I would though - love to hear others here with their own theory as to WHERE a good area might have been utilized by the two gentlemen.

-SpartanOC

Of the little that I know about Ted, I know he loved those mountains on a very deep and spiritual level. I can imagine him wanting a "piece" of him being there forever....which might be something other than, or in addition to his paintings.
I personally left a #2 in a covered hole with a small gold nugget on top. Happy metal detecting!

 

[cuzimloony]

Drawn by Ted. Im not saying there are clues here, but maybe you haven't seen it.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Of the little that I know about Ted, I know he loved those mountains on a very deep and spiritual level. I can imagine him wanting a "piece" of him being there forever....which might be something other than, or in addition to his paintings.
I personally left a #2 in a covered hole with a small gold nugget on top. Happy metal detecting!

I would agree. Those Supes were Ted's "spiritual home".

What better way than to leave a piece of yourself out there, forever, by burying the items you love the most in Life. Those paintings were treated by Ted, as a part of his Soul.

 

[cuzimloony]

I would agree. Those Supes were Ted's "spiritual home".

What better way than to leave a piece of yourself out there, forever, by burying the items you love the most in Life. Those paintings were treated by Ted, as a part of his Soul.

Yeah.....notice the Altar of Worship on his map......right past where I was at Whisky Spring....

 

[SPARTANOC]

Drawn by Ted. Im not saying there are clues here, but maybe you haven't seen it.
View attachment 2181611

Awesome map! No, I've not seen this and THANK YOU for sharing....

So, in reality - he could have hid his personal "gems" in any of these marked areas. I'm sure whatever location has been drawn here - he went to, at one point or another in his life time.

 

[cuzimloony]

Awesome map! No, I've not seen this and THANK YOU for sharing....

So, in reality - he could have hid his personal "gems" in any of these marked areas. I'm sure whatever location has been drawn here - he went to, at one point or another in his life time.

The map was published by his museum in 1972. If he hid the paintings after that, then this is a cool novelty. If he hid the paintings before that..... there may be something on here. When was he supposed to have hidden the paintings?
There are many springs in the Sups.....but only 2 on this map....and why is it called Padre Canyon. I've never seen that before. How did it get that name?

 

[SPARTANOC]

The map was published by his museum in 1972. If he hid the paintings after that, then this is a cool novelty. If he hid the paintings before that..... there may be something on here. When was he supposed to have hidden the paintings?
There are many springs in the Sups.....but only 2 on this map....and why is it called Padre Canyon. I've never seen that before. How did it get that name?

He burned those paintings in 1976 I believe.

I have a feeling he hid some of his works BEFORE 1976, but surely could have after the fact.

 

[SPARTANOC]

The map was published by his museum in 1972. If he hid the paintings after that, then this is a cool novelty. If he hid the paintings before that..... there may be something on here. When was he supposed to have hidden the paintings?
There are many springs in the Sups.....but only 2 on this map....and why is it called Padre Canyon. I've never seen that before. How did it get that name?

I noticed that too - the Padre Canyon. Very insightful and might be a clue?

 

[cuzimloony]

I noticed that too - the Padre Canyon. Very insightful and might be a clue?

Could be a reference to a famous AZ padre (Kino, I think...), or a local mission....?

 

[SPARTANOC]

Could be a reference to a famous AZ padre (Kino, I think...), or a local mission....?

Well - there's a real Padre Canyon in AZ here: 35.2166779 -111.1090331 but its waaaay up North from the Supes.

So - it must be a personal "nick-name" for that canyon, given by Ted? Maybe there's a "marker" out there that has some references to the whole Padre thing...a rock formation, etc.?