Where do you think the Lost Dutchman mine is?

[cactusjumper]

From the Bark Notes we have this:

"In passing through Goldfield, located on the Apache Trail, look off to the southeast about two miles, at the base of the rugged cliffs of the Superstition mountains, there is where Silverlock and Mahlm had their camp for so many years, also, where where the big fight took place. If you can stop over for a few hours when traveling along the Apache trail, go up there and look at the empty dynamite boxes, old fuse and general camp equipment, and who can say but what you might pick up a piece of the equipment, and who can say but that you might pick up a piece of the Lost Dutchman. Then look almost due east about four miles, and there you will see a mountain with a black lava top just a little higher than the surrounding mountains, and there on the west side or the side toward Phoenix is located (I believe) the Lost Dutchman mine."

Jim Bark believed the LDM was located on the ridge that separates West and East Boulder Canyons. Does anyone really have better information than Bark and Ely had?

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[markmar]

Joe

The red line is 4 miles east , and the yellow 4 miles " almost " SE . I don't think how Bark meant the ridge between W and E boulder Canyon .

 

[Oroblanco]

From the Bark Notes we have this:

"In passing through Goldfield, located on the Apache Trail, look off to the southeast about two miles, at the base of the rugged cliffs of the Superstition mountains, there is where Silverlock and Mahlm had their camp for so many years, also, where where the big fight took place. If you can stop over for a few hours when traveling along the Apache trail, go up there and look at the empty dynamite boxes, old fuse and general camp equipment, and who can say but what you might pick up a piece of the equipment, and who can say but that you might pick up a piece of the Lost Dutchman. Then look almost due east about four miles, and there you will see a mountain with a black lava top just a little higher than the surrounding mountains, and there on the west side or the side toward Phoenix is located (I believe) the Lost Dutchman mine."

Jim Bark believed the LDM was located on the ridge that separates West and East Boulder Canyons. Does anyone really have better information than Bark and Ely had?

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

A good question, which we could say that perhaps Julia and Reiney had better information, or that perhaps Dick Holmes had better information but until the mine is found who can say? On the other hand, Bark and Ely had a MIX of information from numerous sources, and ended up finding gold by the Salt river. Not near the ridge referred to. They did not seem to notice that all this mixed information may not apply to the mine of Waltz. Bark did note some discrepancies, but simply tried to reconcile them rather than the alternate possibility of being unrelated.

"When I am gone, you will wish you had listened to me." -->Jacob Waltz to Julia and Reiney

 

[Oroblanco]

Yes, there is such a list,"NONE", now you wont loose any sleep exercising.np

Perhaps you have not researched the matter. Over 200 different people have claimed to have found the LDM. Still think it would be a list of 'NONE'?

 

[Oroblanco]

Another out of MANY

 

[cactusjumper]

A good question, which we could say that perhaps Julia and Reiney had better information, or that perhaps Dick Holmes had better information but until the mine is found who can say? On the other hand, Bark and Ely had a MIX of information from numerous sources, and ended up finding gold by the Salt river. Not near the ridge referred to. They did not seem to notice that all this mixed information may not apply to the mine of Waltz. Bark did note some discrepancies, but simply tried to reconcile them rather than the alternate possibility of being unrelated.

"When I am gone, you will wish you had listened to me." -->Jacob Waltz to Julia and Reiney

Roy,

Actually, neither Bark nor Ely thought the claim by the Salt River to be the LDM. I believe only Bark and Chuning were involved in that mine. In his notes, Jim says "This mine that John discovered while hunting the Dutchman is at least twelve miles off the course, and I think he finally hunted farther away than that."

Anyone know where twelve miles would place you? Just to save some time, close to the south end of the ridge that separates East and West Boulder canyons.

Also from that time: News was brought to Florence this week that John Chuning, who has been prospecting the neighborhood of Weaver's Needle and the Four Peaks, has at last found what he believes to be the Lost Dutchman mine--
a rich gold property with a history. Chuning discovered old workings consisting of a shaft and tunnel, which he is now cleaning out a short distance west of the Needle which can be plainly seen due north from Florence in the Superstition Mountains. (Florence tribune, Dec. 7, 1901) From page 94 of "The Lost Dutchman Mine Of Jacob Waltz....." by Dr. Glover.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Not Peralta]

Perhaps you have not researched the matter. Over 200 different people have claimed to have found the LDM. Still think it would be a list of 'NONE'?

View attachment 1165848

have some Yes, I do, show me the gold,show us the proof that some one found $20,000,000 worth of gold in an old mine ,and got it out of the supe's and showed it to some one.thats what has always been reported. np

 

[cactusjumper]

It would seem that no one is interested in what Jim Bark had concluded or where John Chuning thought he had found the mine, or the fact that the Stone Map Trail takes you right over that ridge. Just a coincidence that we found two large stone markers on the ridge, also a coincidence that Ruth camped just below that spot.....All just interesting coincidences.....at least interesting to me.

The one thing that gives me serious pause, is that Ben Davis, in all his manifestations thinks I was on to something.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Not Peralta wrote

Yes, I do, show me the gold,show us the proof that some one found $20,000,000 worth of gold in an old mine ,and got it out of the supe's and showed it to some one.thats what has always been reported.

Well my contumelious fellow, Reading Is Fundamental. Apparently you have not read any of the books, magazines or what has been posted. I will happily show you that thick vein of pure gold, when I get to see that library of Oz with all those magnificent books and scrolls. I suggest you re-read the old posts as a start. Maybe you should put a fresh pot of coffee on, you have much to catch up on.

　
Cactusjumper wrote

Roy,

Actually, neither Bark nor Ely thought the claim by the Salt River to be the LDM. I believe only Bark and Chuning were involved in that mine. In his notes, Jim says "This mine that John discovered while hunting the Dutchman is at least twelve miles off the course, and I think he finally hunted farther away than that."

Anyone know where twelve miles would place you? Just to save some time, close to the south end of the ridge that separates East and West Boulder canyons.

Also from that time: News was brought to Florence this week that John Chuning, who has been prospecting the neighborhood of Weaver's Needle and the Four Peaks, has at last found what he believes to be the Lost Dutchman mine--
a rich gold property with a history. Chuning discovered old workings consisting of a shaft and tunnel, which he is now cleaning out a short distance west of the Needle which can be plainly seen due north from Florence in the Superstition Mountains. (Florence tribune, Dec. 7, 1901) From page 94 of "The Lost Dutchman Mine Of Jacob Waltz....." by Dr. Glover.

Yes I have the same books, and knew that Ely and Bark ended up quite some distance from that idea of the ridge between West and East Boulder canyons. However twelve miles could be a distance in ANY direction couldn't it? And John Chuning must have found that shaft and tunnel really were not the Lost Dutchman's mine after all too, or certainly they would have worked on it, instead of the rather low grade mine they did work on. Bark, Ely and Chuning were hamstrung by trying to fit all those different clues together in one place. Several relate to the Joe Deering mine like the 'trick in the trail' and 'you have to go through a hole' among others. That mine can not be the same one as Waltz's. I don't know why some people can not countenance the idea that more than one mine could exist in the area.

　
Cactusjumper also wrote

It would seem that no one is interested in what Jim Bark had concluded or where John Chuning thought he had found the mine, or the fact that the Stone Map Trail takes you right over that ridge. Just a coincidence that we found two large stone markers on the ridge, also a coincidence that Ruth camped just below that spot.....All just interesting coincidences.....at least interesting to me.

The one thing that gives me serious pause, is that Ben Davis, in all his manifestations thinks I was on to something.

I am not online continuously here, have been peeking in as I get time between working. Why do you lend credence to Bark, Ely and Chuning's site and/or conclusions? Not intending that to be sarcastic, just curious as to why you feel their conclusions carry more weight? Thanks in advance;
Oroblanco

 

[Not Peralta]

It would seem that no one is interested in what Jim Bark had concluded or where John Chuning thought he had found the mine, or the fact that the Stone Map Trail takes you right over that ridge. Just a coincidence that we found two large stone markers on the ridge, also a coincidence that Ruth camped just below that spot.....All just interesting coincidences.....at least interesting to me.

The one thing that gives me serious pause, is that Ben Davis, in all his manifestations thinks I was on to something.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

The one thing that gives me serious pause is the fact you were told about these markers a couple years ago by me, I will explain again one more time, yes,the stone tablets if followed correctly do take you across the ridge to these markers ,there used to be more of them ,but, they are only half way markers and used to contain info on what to follow next to get to your destination,but,two odd things happened,they were torn down, and later rebuilt , there was no prize to be had around the area of the markers, only info.they were very important. np

 

[cactusjumper]

Not Peralta wrote


Well my contumelious fellow, Reading Is Fundamental. Apparently you have not read any of the books, magazines or what has been posted. I will happily show you that thick vein of pure gold, when I get to see that library of Oz with all those magnificent books and scrolls. I suggest you re-read the old posts as a start. Maybe you should put a fresh pot of coffee on, you have much to catch up on.

　
Cactusjumper wrote


Yes I have the same books, and knew that Ely and Bark ended up quite some distance from that idea of the ridge between West and East Boulder canyons. However twelve miles could be a distance in ANY direction couldn't it? And John Chuning must have found that shaft and tunnel really were not the Lost Dutchman's mine after all too, or certainly they would have worked on it, instead of the rather low grade mine they did work on. Bark, Ely and Chuning were hamstrung by trying to fit all those different clues together in one place. Several relate to the Joe Deering mine like the 'trick in the trail' and 'you have to go through a hole' among others. That mine can not be the same one as Waltz's. I don't know why some people can not countenance the idea that more than one mine could exist in the area.

　
Cactusjumper also wrote


I am not online continuously here, have been peeking in as I get time between working. Why do you lend credence to Bark, Ely and Chuning's site and/or conclusions? Not intending that to be sarcastic, just curious as to why you feel their conclusions carry more weight? Thanks in advance;
Oroblanco

Roy,

They were closest to the events that directly related to Jacob Waltz and the LDM. I have seen more evidence for that ridge than is in any books. I believe there is more to come.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

The one thing that gives me serious pause is the fact you were told about these markers a couple years ago by me, I will explain again one more time, yes,the stone tablets if followed correctly do take you across the ridge to these markers ,there used to be more of them ,but, they are only half way markers and used to contain info on what to follow next to get to your destination,but,two odd things happened,they were torn down, and later rebuilt , there was no prize to be had around the area of the markers, only info.they were very important. np

NP,

I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you copy the post where you told me about the two monuments and re-post it here?

Many thanks,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

contmullllliousss, ? Contenenca ? watch it. Remember your reders Oro.

 

[Oroblanco]

contmullllliousss, ? Contenenca ? watch it. Remember your reders Oro.

Contumelious = sarcastic, disrespectful; sort of a form of contemptuous

Sorry amigo I am just a bit tired of games people like to play on treasure forums. Not all of us live in the shadow of the Superstitions so could go trekking up into them every weekend, so when someone wants to send you on a wild goose chase it is not too appealing. Comprende compadre? As it is, I am not even sure we will make it to the rendezvous this year, although I am hoping to get at least a couple of weeks to work with Per and see our friends again. I keep hoping you may be able to attend too, but not going to hold my breath as I know how a schedule can get pretty full.

Cactusjumper wrote

Roy,

They were closest to the events that directly related to Jacob Waltz and the LDM. I have seen more evidence for that ridge than is any books. I believe there is more to come.

Take care,

Joe

That is perfectly logical and makes sense. I take it then that you discount Holmes entirely, and the Pioneer interviews are 'hell I was there' fiction as well? Do you think that the Joe Deering mine is the same as the Jacob Waltz mine? If so, may I ask why? Thanks in advance.

We have been getting your Arizona monsoon here, not as bad as in Texas and Oklahoma, a friend there told me yesterday that the total rainfall for May (so far) is just a bit over 24 inches, and in Banderas Texas they got 9.5 inches of rain in one night. I hope you are not getting that kind of weather!


Not Peralta wrote

The one thing that gives me serious pause is the fact you were told about these markers a couple years ago by me, I will explain again one more time, yes,the stone tablets if followed correctly do take you across the ridge to these markers ,there used to be more of them ,but, they are only half way markers and used to contain info on what to follow next to get to your destination,but,two odd things happened,they were torn down, and later rebuilt , there was no prize to be had around the area of the markers, only info.they were very important.

The monuments Joe is referring to, he and his partners found over ten years ago. I have not been up that canyon but from what I understand, it is a very rough hike and I don't think Joe is going to go hike up there again. I live over 1000 miles away, and when I do get to spend time in the southwest, generally have things to do that take up my time as well. If you could just lay your cards on the table, it might be more productive than teasing. Photos would help too, as I have learned over the years, and wish I had taken many more for just saying something is all too easy.
Roy

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Actually it was my brother and I who found those monuments.

As I said, it's probably just a strange series of coincidences. On the other hand, I could add a few more to the list.

Some rain, nothing serious.

Take care,

Joe

 

[motel6.5]

The mine or the Peraltas stash cave is located above the Military Trail that the 2 soldiers blazed. In my opinion.
I have not been their,but I believe it is there looking down from above. A crack large enough for a mule and its rider to slip through and up.{the trick in the trail}.

 

[Not Peralta]

NP,

I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you copy the post where you told me about the two monuments and re-post it here?

Many thanks,

Joe

Joe, have some :coffee2 ,have a nice holiday,the info you wanted is located on my thread,on page 113, post starting at 1683,1688,1692,1695. np

 

[Oroblanco]

Joe, have some :coffee2 ,have a nice holiday,the info you wanted is located on my thread,on page 113, post starting at 1683,1688,1692,1695. np

To save time and effort here, instead of more games, here is what our amigo Not Peralta is referring to:

Not Peralta wrote <post #1682>

cactusjumper,yes, I also think its a smoke screen, for the last five years ,that group has been trying to beat another group to a saddle area in the supe's, but theres been to much traffic for them every time they have attempted it.

Not Peralta wrote <post #1688>

nothing better than coffee in the morning,(hows your thought process this fine day) lets explore a possibility , a long time ago there used to be two stone markers at west boulder canyon,what if these two markers contained the original information that's on the stone tablets,what if at one time a cowboy was riding through that area came across the two markers and discovered this information inside the markers and destroyed the markers, what if this cowboy went back to the ranch were he worked and pondered what to do with it, maybe he couldn't figure out there meaning,then transferred the information on to stone tablets for better effect,then sold them, just a thought,np ps,the stone markers were replaced by someone.

cactusjumper wrote <post number 1692>

Roy,

A flat stone has been placed over the location of the cactus marker. Beneath it the directions of the stones are laid out on another stone. This is a picture of Ernie and Al Morrow, who showed my uncle and Ernie the location

Not Peralta wrote <post #1695 >

　
Originally Posted by Not Peralta http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...mewhere-other-than-superstition-mtns-113.html

nothing better than coffee in the morning,(hows your thought process this fine day) lets explore a possibility , a long time ago there used to be two stone markers at west boulder canyon,what if these two markers contained the original information that's on the stone tablets,what if at one time a cowboy was riding through that area came across the two markers and discovered this information inside the markers and destroyed the markers, what if this cowboy went back to the ranch were he worked and pondered what to do with it, maybe he couldn't figure out there meaning,then transferred the information on to stone tablets for better effect,then sold them, just a thought,np ps,the stone markers were replaced by someone.

good morning, had your this morning , just speculating ,but, I wonder who could have went back and rebuilt the monuments, did they put them back in the same spot,why put them back at all, and what about the cowboy, i wonder what ever became of him, have all the tablets been made public? np

I do not know why most of the emoticons vanished but am not patient enough to go through and copy them.

Not Peralta why not simply lay your cards on the table? Neither Joe or I are likely to go hike into the places you seem to want someone to go, maybe one of the younger members here that lives near by (like the fellow posting videos for instance) could be talked into going and getting some video footage of what you are talking about? No amount of teasing and subterfuge is going to get me or Joe to do it, neither of us is all that young any more and we both live some distance away from the Superstitions. There are several members here, who live in Apache Jct however who may be more than happy to oblige.

I hope everyone is having a great holiday weekend, and thank you to our veterans for our freedoms.
Oroblanco

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco, Amigo, have some, like I said from the beginning , I am here to share my knowledge, however much that may be,Its not much only about 45 years worth.and that's full time on many treasure sites. people have many interest,I merely share, I am not asking any one to do anything, If people have interest in the area I am talking about, while they are there they can look at what I mention
on here to help them,nothing more or less, I hope every one the best always, every little bit of info for any one helps,but, I am not asking or advising any one to make a special trip on my account. especially from one old buzzard to two old buzzards as you and Joe. NP

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

NP, you posted ---- Its not much only about 45 years worth


Hmjmm let's see 45 + a min of 20 = 65, or practically 30 45 = 75. Ya feeble old bugger, yer in your second childhood. How can any one take you seriously ?? Gum yer coffee down.