what are these from ( SOLVED!)

[NGE]

These things (caps?) are found all over the place here in Michigan. Anytime you find one, keep hunting that park or field or island. Something was going on at least 100 or more years ago. They are made of aluminum, most are 1/2 inch diameter on the open end, if not smashed, they are 1/4 inch tall, the look like large caliber thin aluminum pellets, we also thought opium bottle caps, some of these are 3/4 inch in diameter, and have a rubber seal around the narrow waist part of them. We have searched available patent materials and pictures, typed in all kinds of "key words" and still can't figure out what they are. Many kudo's to whoever can find anything about these things......... notgittinenny

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: what are these from

I'm surprised we haven't heard from notgettinenny lately. So I just sent him a PM. Hopefully we will hear from him soon. If not, maybe one of you who know him personally can contact him and see how he's doing.

Thanks.

Bob

 

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[allan]

Re: what are these from

How did I ever miss this thread ? that's a Hall bottle seal if I ever saw one lol , Lose any sleep SBB ? nice research effort

 

[NGE]

Re: what are these from

I just read all the updates and I thank one and all for all your research efforts. Sure is nice to find out what these (piggnuts.....lol) are. Sorry about not getting back sooner, but between my bladder cancer and losing my mother to the same last year, I have been quite busy. I am going to put a pic up of the one with the Pat. '95 on the inside of the cap. Annnnnd I will be posting this thread to other sites for others who have found these things, that they also will know what they were used for. If I can remember how, I will green check this one. Once again.......Thanks everyone!...........NGE Picture will be posted as a reply to this thread.

 

[NGE]

As promised, here is that pic.........NGE

 

[NGE]

Just sent email to David Graci, told him I would be glad to donate a few caps for his (Museum....collection) free of charge. Just glad he had the answer....NGE

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: what are these from

How did I ever miss this thread ? that's a Hall bottle seal if I ever saw one lol, Lose any sleep SBB? nice research effort

[ Slightly Off Topic / General Interest ]

In respose to Allan's comment about my losing sleep ... I'd like to say I do not lose sleep over "What Is It's?" but I do find them interesting and challenging, and that I sometimes get side-tracked, like now.

~ Tuesdays ~

The more research I do, the more involved I become with Patents, which can often be a sure-fire way to identify something when the appropriate numbers are available. It was through a patent search that I accidently stumbled onto the 1895 Bottle Sealing Device.

Speaking of which, I recently discovered there were a total of 397 U.S. Patents granted on June 18, 1895. As illustrated in the pictures below, the various patents granted on that particular day start with No. 541,058 and end with No. 541,455. Our Bottle Sealing Device is right in the middle at 541,203.

These particular June 18, 1895 patents were granted on a Tuesday. (See Calendar). I also discovered the next in line patent numbers, both higher and lower than these, were also granted on a Tuesday either one week prior to June 18th, which would have been the 11th, or one week following, which would have been June the 25th.

I haven't fully researched this, and probably won't, but the bottom line appears that patent approvals were (at least in the examples I researched) always granted on a Tuesday. But please don't ask me why, cause I dunno

And please don't lose any sleep over this, either. I know I sure won't! But I bet this is something most of us didn't know, and is just interesting enough to share here.

Pictures ...

1. Calendar - June 1895
2. Patent No. 541,058 - Shutter Device - First one granted that day
3. Patent No. 541,203 - Bottle Seal - Somewhere in the middle
4. Patent No. 541,455 - Pump/Turbine - Last one granted that day

{ Not pictured ~ Patent No. 541,057 is dated Tuesday June 11th 1895 ~ Patent No. 541,456 is dated Tuesday June 25th 1895 }

Footnote: Just be glad I didn't post all 397 patents for June 18, 1895. That definitely would have caused me to lose some sleep! (Lol)

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

P.S. ~

Please be reminded that R. A. Hall was sued by William Painter in 1903. Which means the Bottle Sealing Devices in question were only in circulation for eight years at most between about 1895 and 1903.

Later alligators,

SODAPATENTBOB

 

[postalgriff]

wow....just read this for the first time and gotta say well done to SSB, man you chased that sucker down...nice work!

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I heard from Tod Von Mechow, who had the following helpful information to add ...

Chris Vaught, a Baltimore beer bottle collector, had a couple of those still installed in the neck of broken bottles that were dug in Baltimore. I think he sold them to David Graci. Those aluminum seals would be commonly found at the sites of fairs, picnics, and factories where beer was commonly consumed. I think those seals were much more commonly used than previously expected since they are not all that different from the loop seals (Baltimore Loop). And there were a lot of those in the Upper Midwest, which would explain the numbers found at old fair sites.

~ * ~

Please be sure to visit Tod's website regarding antique soda and beer bottles. It is one of the best on the internet and list over 22,000 bottles.

Link: http://www.sodasandbeers.com/index.html

 

[NGE]

Bob thanks for that last link, I searched for Central Bottling works in Detroit Michigan, and I found my cobalt blue Hutch soda bottle really quick. I was offered between 6 and $800.00 for it a couple years ago. But I have lost the guy's name.....duh. It is still for sale to anyone who is interested. It is problem free, no nicks, cracks, discoloring, etc. I have painted the raised lettering so it can be read. Now, for my idea of how the Hall Closure may have been opened and no complete bottles have been found with the "stopper" intact. I think that a wooden or aluminum dowel was inserted into the aluminum cap and forced by hand or heaven forbid a "Hammer" knocking the cap into the contents, then the liquid was poured or "chokingly" drank. Why have no whole bottles (or very few) have been found intact? I think from opening the said bottles, may have been broken upon punching the cap through, or kids broke the bottles to get at the shiny thingy in the bottle, sort of like the used to do with the bottles that had the marble type stopper in them. Just my thoughts. Let me know if you find out how they were originally removed, once again, thanks for all your research in finding out what these things really were.........NGE

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I found your Detroit hutchinson, too. Great looking bottle. Great site.

You should contact David Graci. I bet he knows more than anyone as to how the Hall bottle seals were removed. But I really don't think they were "pushed" in. My guess is they were "pried" out ... thus why so many of them are found scattered around, and likely made of aluminum, otherwise they would have rusted away years ago. But whether there was a specific type of opener for them or if they just used the standard types at the time, I'm not sure.

SBB

{ Picture courtesy of Tod Von Mechow's website }

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Nice work SODABOTTLEBOB!

 

[michaelsammon]

Sultan No. 1 Pat. June 18 '95 found

Good evening

The Sultan No. 1 is actually US Pat 541320 a rug fastener. I followed your trail a bit further and ended up on page 1717 of the Official Gazette of the United States Patent Office volume LXXI April 2 to June 25 Inclusive for 1895. I then Googled "Sultan rug fastener" and discovered many advertisements in the early 1900's showing the thing sewn onto the back of carpets. That was what the three holes were for.

I found one a few weeks ago. Thank you for pointing me in the correct direction.

m

During my search for a forked bottle opener, I found this, which I consider to be a significant find. The information connected it to the 1895 patent we have been discussing ... which shows the same patent date and surely is a "variation" seal/plug of some kind by the same inventor, but one that is not illustrated on the original patent. I suspect this particular seal was revised, and that the little holes were added to make it easier to remove from the bottle. (I can think of no other logical reason for the holes). It is described as being "one inch" in diameter, which is approximately the size of a quarter. So it was either intended to be used on larger bottles, or else a portion of it hung over the lip of a standard bottle, thus allowing it to be removed more easily. (Speculative and Inconclusive).

Actual description ...

"This is a really nice and quite rare seal closure that is marked "Sultan NO. 1 Pat. June 18 '95" and appears to be in unused condition. Based on the Patent date research it appears this stopper was mainly used in the Metro Baltimore area and it was invented by Robert Allison Hall who was sued by a competitor in 1903. The use of this closure was short lived and this is a great go with for your Baltimore area beer bottle collection. It measures approximately 1 inch across and it is in nice unused condition."

~ * ~


Additionally, I found the bottle openers pictured at the bottom, which are described as being "pre-prohibition," and are the only type of openers from that period I could find that even come close to being "forked." Obviously this type of opener would have been used edgewise, and may very well be what the inventor of the sealing device meant when he said "forked."

I just wish I would hear from Tod Von Mechow. I believe he's an expert on bottle closures and seals and possibly could resolve this in nothing flat. I even gave him the link to this thread and invited him to comment ... but no word from him yet!

SBB

 

[ScubaDetector]

I didn't see where anyone got the name right but it is early in the morning for me. Those caps are called the Baltimore Loop seal. I have found hundreds underwater with the rubber band like seal around them

https://sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/BaltimoreLoopSealarticle.pdf

I even have two broken bottle tops with the seals still inside.







Used a lot in Michigan from the late 19880s to the very early 1900s

 

[A2coins]

Wow this was a good thread lol glad you got the ID and very nice of you to donate some Tommy