We all need to spread this far and wide

[Oakview2]

It needs to be seen by all miners, John Q pulbic. It exposes these green groups for exactly what they are. TV, radio, facebook, blogs, chatrooms whatever.

On December 12th the Western Mining Alliance received the
final report on the Department of Interior’s investigation into the
activities of Dr. Charles Alpers of the US Geological Survey.
In response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) filed by
the WMA, and a follow on request for an official investigation the
Department of Interior published the results of their investigation.
Dr. Charles Alpers, of the US Geological Survey (USGS) was
the lead mercury researcher for the water quality section of the
2011 Suction Dredging Environmental Impact Report (EIR). He
was responsible for collecting the data, and preparing the analysis
for the California Suction Dredging Environmental Impact Report
which concluded suction dredges were linked to high
methylmercury levels in wildlife.
He further stated there was only one year of testing data to
rely on.
In 2013 the WMA submitted a FOIA requesting all data
related to sampling of mercury on the South Yuba River, the same
location the suction dredge study took place. The information we
received proved over five years of data existed from research
funded by the Bureau of Land Management, and conducted by –
Dr. Charles Alpers.
When we evaluated all of the data we found there was natural
variability from year to year in mercury levels in wildlife, and the
levels of mercury in insects appeared to be directly linked to the
size of the spring flood. When we viewed all of the data there was
no linkage between mercury levels and dredging activity which
was in direct contradiction to Dr. Alpers’ findings.
The WMA submitted a request for an official investigation
alleging scientific misconduct over the withholding of the data set.
We met with the Department of Interior in June and discussed our
concerns.
Last week the Department of Interior provided us with their
report and it provides some stunning revelations.
The lead mercury researcher on the suction dredging EIR was
also a donor and member of The Sierra Fund. The Sierra Fund is
the organization which claims responsibility for developing the
legislation which banned suction dredging. They have publically
admitted they are opposed to suction dredging and they claimed
credit for writing the legislation which resulted in SB 670, the initial dredging ban.

 

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[minerrick]

If we can put together 50 to 100 miners that would be willing to put up some cold hard cash I know just the people to hire that would love to investigate this & also get it out in front of the public. 35 years experience & they know how to get it done, I don't think the Dr, would survive the beatdown that they could bring.

If someone would love to investigate this, why would anyone have to pay them? WMA broke the story and the guys who did all the research and writing, didn't get paid. Currently there are a lot of really talented writers who are unemployed. I cannot think of a better way to get your name out there than to be on the leading edge of a story that exclaims how a politically well connected "environmental" non-profit who publicly promotes the end of small scale suction dredging, has a USGS scientist on its board, that is "randomly" selected by the California Water Board to create a "results based" scientific study to show the horrors of mercury, so the small scale miner can have his whole industry destroyed, just so the well same (well connected group who that same scientist is a board member of ) can come in and be the "replacement industry leader" for the industry they just destroyed- and the icing on the cake, is that environmental group is now figuring out how to market the "green gold" they just stole from the small scale miners and as the small communities the displaced miners worked in are drying up on the vine, while the environmental group is determining how to spend the $Millions of taxpayer funding from the Cal Water Bond that was just passed (how's that for the run-on sentence of the year?). Noooooooo, I don't see any public interest in this story (sarcasm off)

This is the perfect story for someone who wants to see their writing career grow exponentially.

On a personal level:

If you want to "do something" then call your local political representative on the local, regional, state and national level and talk to them about what you are thinking.

If you listen to talk radio, call in and start a discussion.

This is a grass roots fight, and there is no "big pockets donor" who is going to pay for anything. If you want change, YOU are going to have to do something, other than commenting in a mining forum. This is YOUR industry they are destroying, and who is the best person to stand up for YOUR interests?

 

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[minerrick]

What am I going to do? Personally? I am going to condense down the information and I plan on cold calling every news organization across the country I can think of and send my letter off. Probably later on in the month, I am going to take a trip to Sacramento and visit my representative or his staff and have a little "one on one" with them to determine if this the it way business is now being conducted in the State of California. My local supervisor will also get a piece of my mind. I am pissed off and I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE. What would happen if just 20 others did the same? I just guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Molemann]

Me thinks we hast a wolf in sheeps clothing amoungst us lads! If not a wolf then someone in a "green" coat.

Do you HONESTLY think that miners are to blame for all the problems in California? Miners have done more to remove toxins from that states waterways than ANY environmental group has to date and they do it without any tax dollars! Let's see here,,, FREE Mercury removal or pay MILLIONS of tax dollars to have much less of it removed from our waterways? You decide! Please get your facts straight before you start spouting streams of worthless rhetoric condemning those that know what they're talking about! Miners in the old days made a mess but the modern miners are cleaning up as much of that mess as we can. DO NOT judge us as a whole by the actions of a few.

And when scientists present data that is intentionally skewed to fit the agendas of those that are paying them, then they are not TRUE scientists at all. A scientific fact is the same for EVERYONE. Just because it doesn't happen to advance the agenda of some group does not make it any less true. By not presenting ALL of the data, decisions were made that have kept dredging miners out of the water for years now. Just imagine how much more mercury could have been removed in those years and then try to tell us that we are wrong to want HONEST SCIENCE instead of fairy tales from someones bought lab rat.

Me thinks we hast a wolf in sheeps clothing amoungst us lads! If not a wolf then someone in a "green" coat.

Don't think for one minute that all the people on this blog are "us lads". Others on this blog have opinions, also.
Don't berate other bloggers with your innuendos.
Not nice

 

[Molemann]

I love seeing hysterical conspiracy mongers as much as the next guy, but please look at what some of you are writing. Good gods!

The mercury in the area came from gold miners: it did not magically appear along the rivers and stream beds by an act of the gods. The burning of coal, which dumps mercury, spreads that mercury everywhere down wind---- not along streams, which is one of the many reasons why we know where the mercury came from: miners.

Dredging in some areas removes some of the sequestered mercury into the water: as much as rain does.

The land we mine belongs to everyone, not just us miners; the water we use belongs to everyone, not just us miners. When we work a mine, we are doing so on land that belongs to everyone: we do not have the right to poison the water.

Why is that not obvious?

Scientists merely stated the facts: they did not make any political opinions on the subject; they did not further any sinister Oh My Gods There's A Black Man In The White House agenda. The scientists merely pointed out the fact that everyone's properly (water) is being poisoned by some of us miners.

If you object about what the scientists have stated, write a paper on the subject and submit it to a science journal for peer review and publication: correct the flaws you believe the scientists made.

Sheeeish. And people call *ME* paranoid.... :-)

Well said.

 

[2cmorau]

Mercury has been on this planet long before man walked this earth, when a Volcano decides to erupt it will do more to release a gases mercury then man has done in 2 hundred years, that why CFLs need to go to a recycle place and how many people do that
Mercury exist in low thermal areas, the sierras have natural mercury so how much mercury was in the waterways before the miners showed up?
this is from Bulletin 190 California division of mines and geology
ferry building San Francisco 1966 Geology of Northen California

 

[azblackbird]

Mercury has been on this planet long before man walked this earth

The same people who believe that mercury (Hg) is a byproduct of the miners, are the same people who think milk comes from the store. There is no educating these type of people. They think like sheep, act like sheep, and are easily lead around like sheep. Critical thinking is definitely not in there repertoire.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Me thinks we hast a wolf in sheeps clothing amoungst us lads! If not a wolf then someone in a "green" coat.

Don't think for one minute that all the people on this blog are "us lads". Others on this blog have opinions, also.
Don't berate other bloggers with your innuendos.
Not nice

Actually, there was no innuendo at all Molemann. Everyone else on this thread KNEW EXACTLY what I was saying because this is a well read, intelligent group of miners that have had quite enough of the so called "Green Movement" trying to take our rights and way of life away from us. WE are closer to this issue than most realize and know what the true score is. Now.... When you and yours can present actual facts and provide backup data to go with them then you can come play with the big boys. Till then, feel free to stay in the pen with the rest of the "Sheeple".

EDIT: People that have facts placed before them in which those facts disagree with their own agenda(s) seldom think of them as "Nice". That the facts are not viewed as nice in no way lessens the truth behind them.

 

[ScottC]

I certainly hope that judge Ochoa will receive a copy of that department of interior investigation report about how the data was withheld. And how that manipulation of research had an impact on the dredge moratorium. It's my belief they purposely misled the legislature to achieve there private agenda.

Which is unethical to say the leased.

 

[fowledup]

Read the investigation- Asking one part of the government to investigate another without bias is ludicrous at best. The whole investigation needed to go no further then the graph and misuse of the data on it. Heck, my nine year old granddaughter figured it out in less then a minute once I told her what the lines and colors represented! What's Alpers response? "What? Who me? I'm just a little o'l public servant scientist, I can't control what the California State Water Resources Control Board does with it. DId you get the spelling on that or need the acronym? It's C-S-W-R-C-B. By the way did I mention I've distanced myself from TSF, that's THE SIERRA FUND, cause they have a biased stance against mining, oh yeah sure, S-I-E-R-R-----" AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH! Somebody put me out of my misery please!

 

[Prospector70]

Me thinks we hast a wolf in sheeps clothing amoungst us lads! If not a wolf then someone in a "green" coat.

Don't think for one minute that all the people on this blog are "us lads". Others on this blog have opinions, also.
Don't berate other bloggers with your innuendos.
Not nice

 

[goldenIrishman]

I love seeing hysterical conspiracy mongers as much as the next guy, but please look at what some of you are writing. Good gods!

Where pray tell do you see anyone here being hysterical? We are not running around screaming "The sky is falling!" like so many of the "Greenies" have been doing for years. We are only discussing the events and rendering our personal opinions based on years of experience. Nothing Hysterical about that is there?

The mercury in the area came from gold miners: it did not magically appear along the rivers and stream beds by an act of the gods. The burning of coal, which dumps mercury, spreads that mercury everywhere down wind---- not along streams, which is one of the many reasons why we know where the mercury came from: miners.

Well there you're dead wrong. That entire area contains lots and lots of Cinnabar which is a natural ore of Mercury. So it is in fact an act of God. Mother Nature has released more mercury into the waterways of California than man ever has. Now did the old timers release Mercury into the water? Yes...that is a fact, but those old practices are no longer used and haven't been used by RESPONSIBLE miners for many years.

Dredging in some areas removes some of the sequestered mercury into the water: as much as rain does.

And dare I say it? WRONG AGAIN!!!! Dredging REMOVES Mercury from the water while rain just MOVES it!

The land we mine belongs to everyone, not just us miners; the water we use belongs to everyone, not just us miners. When we work a mine, we are doing so on land that belongs to everyone: we do not have the right to poison the water.

Considering that dredging removes toxins like Mercury and Lead from our waterways we are actually CLEANING the water.

Why is that not obvious?

Scientists merely stated the facts: they did not make any political opinions on the subject; they did not further any sinister Oh My Gods There's A Black Man In The White House agenda. The scientists merely pointed out the fact that everyone's properly (water) is being poisoned by some of us miners.

When a scientist holds back data so as to skew the results to the benefit of his employers agenda, he gives up the right to be called a scientist. Science is the pursuit of TRUTH! By holding back that data and running the tests in the way he did, he was NOT looking for truth, but rather a paycheck from the people he was working for. A TRUE SCIENTIST would present all the facts and not hold them back. To add insult to injury, this guy was on the board for the Sierra Fund and never should have been allowed to do the study in the first place due to a MASSIVE conflict of interest.

If you object about what the scientists have stated, write a paper on the subject and submit it to a science journal for peer review and publication: correct the flaws you believe the scientists made.

There have already been several papers that have received peer review that have shown that the data presented in this case was flawed beyond belief.

Sheeeish. And people call *ME* paranoid.... :-)

No.... I haven't seen a single person call you paranoid in this thread yet, so that is yet another thing you've gotten wrong.

Miners have a very great respect for our public lands. It is only in our own interest to respect them. The "Greenies" would, if they could, keep everyone out of the forests and off our public lands. Miners SHARE the land with many other users. Hikers, equestrian types, off roaders, hunters, fishermen you name it. These lands belong to EVERYONE and should be enjoyed by all. They should not be blocked from public access to keep a small percentage of that public happy.

Now don't take me wrong here Desertphile, I'm part Lakota so I care about the lands and waters of our country as much if not more than you do. I also support RESPONSIBLE mining and other land usage as well. There is no reason that responsible land use and mining can not co-exist. I am also a firm believer that no one group of people in this country has the right to take the rights of another group away form them. Like many others on this forum, I've fought and bled to protect those rights and if called upon, I would do the same to this day. Be it our right to mine or your right to complain about it, all rights should be protected. All I would ask of you is to do some UNBIASED research on your own. Look into the business practices of these groups and if you can still feel as strongly about them as you do now, I'll be surprised.

 

[ScottC]

Very well said goldenirishman.

 

[fowledup]

POP QUIZ;
1. What do the red stars in the above photo represent?
2. When in the act of mining are you extracting something that is already in place or adding something to the place?



*Nice! it flipped the photo, oh well the bright ones should be able to figure it out.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Sure ... gold miners brought mercury to California.

There is more native mercury in California than any other state. It's all over the State in just the same places gold miners are being blamed for polluting.

Check out the map that shows where mercury is mined in the United States and then tell us how gold miners are at fault for mercury in California.

Tons of mercury were mined at New Almaden in Santa Clara. More than 880,000 tons or mercury were mined there between 1880 and 1888. There were many other Mercury mines in California mining high grade ores. Many of these deposits bled elemental mercury into the waterways.

Mercury has always been very expensive. Today a single flask of mercury costs more than $3,000. Back when it was in common use in gold mining in California it was relatively even more expensive. In 1874 a flask was $105 - it took nearly 5 ounces of gold to pay for it.

The guy in charge of the mercury recovery was considered an expert. If he didn't properly recycle the mercury he was promptly fired. Remember that the gold and mercury were amalgamated into an alloy, loss of mercury led to loss of gold. Mercury loss was not on the list of things gold miners didn't worry about.

We made Land Matters for just these situations. If two sides disagree on the FACTS then just look up the FACTS on Land Matters.

Now that the real facts are evident we can get back to figuring out what to do about "experts" making up fake "facts" to push their personal agendas.

We made Land Matters so everybody could know the real facts. Support Land Matters if you think that's a good solution. Otherwise?

Educate yourself and prosper!

Heavy Pans

 

[fowledup]

BONUS ROUND:
1. What type of mine is the- X - in the photo above (hint- it's on a dime and it ain't cinnamon)?

2. Where is the geographical location of this photo?

3. What now infamous Mercury infested watershed(s) might it potentially effect?
a) Bear River
b) Lake Combie
c) Deer Creek
d) Scotts Flat
e) all of the above

4. Mercury is a naturally occurring element or a man made toxic Chemical?


*oops it flipped it again!

 

[Bonaro]

I have personally explored old cinnabar mines that had puddles of liquid Mercury, some almost ankle deep. You could see the rock walls "sweating" little silver drops of mercury.
It was very strange to walk in because it felt like you were going to float on it

 

[jog]

If someone would love to investigate this, why would anyone have to pay them? WMA broke the story and the guys who did all the research and writing, didn't get paid. Currently there are a lot of really talented writers who are unemployed. I cannot think of a better way to get your name out there than to be on the leading edge of a story that exclaims how a politically well connected "environmental" non-profit who publicly promotes the end of small scale suction dredging, has a USGS scientist on its board, that is "randomly" selected by the California Water Board to create a "results based" scientific study to show the horrors of mercury, so the small scale miner can have his whole industry destroyed, just so the well same (well connected group who that same scientist is a board member of ) can come in and be the "replacement industry leader" for the industry they just destroyed- and the icing on the cake, is that environmental group is now figuring out how to market the "green gold" they just stole from the small scale miners and as the small communities the displaced miners worked in are drying up on the vine, while the environmental group is determining how to spend the $Millions of taxpayer funding from the Cal Water Bond that was just passed (how's that for the run-on sentence of the year?). Noooooooo, I don't see any public interest in this story (sarcasm off)

This is the perfect story for someone who wants to see their writing career grow exponentially.

On a personal level:

If you want to "do something" then call your local political representative on the local, regional, state and national level and talk to them about what you are thinking.

If you listen to talk radio, call in and start a discussion.

This is a grass roots fight, and there is no "big pockets donor" who is going to pay for anything. If you want change, YOU are going to have to do something, other than commenting in a mining forum. This is YOUR industry they are destroying, and who is the best person to stand up for YOUR interests?

I have donated to the WMA & PLP & i'm all for the great work that they do but I do believe that when you donate to the WMA they do get a peice of the pie & do get paid. I don't know how much & I don't care as long as they get results like they have done.

 

[Oakview2]

I still have not seen ONE posted modern day case of Mercury Poisioning. I made the challenge some 5 pages ago, and still no list of these proposed cases of mercury deaths or even elevated levels. For this supposed threat, WHERE ARE THE CASES?

 

[jog]

How much would it cost?? Are you talking PI or media

Media, and they understand that the system is broken and corupt. I'ts expensive but you can't argue with the proven results.

 

[goldenIrishman]

I still have not seen ONE posted modern day case of Mercury Poisioning. I made the challenge some 5 pages ago, and still no list of these proposed cases of mercury deaths or even elevated levels. For this supposed threat, WHERE ARE THE CASES?

Well Oak, you won't see them post any cases because that hasn't been a single one. (Unless of course they want to falsify the data on that as well) This has been one of the biggest scare tactics that they have used to further their agenda. They rely on the fact that the vast majority of people are to lazy to do the research on their own. This allows them to spread their lies and use the so called pollution caused by mining to line their pockets. Did you noticed that almost as soon as they got the miners and their dredges out of the water that they started really pushing projects like the Lake Combie mercury cleanup? The studies alone have made them lots of money and the actual cleanup will make them even more. All of it paid for by the tax payers of this country. The recovery methods they're saying that they want to use do not recover mercury as effectively as a miner with a dredge, but work pretty good on gold. Do they think that miners are going to stand by and allow them to do this without a fight? Of course they do because of their arrogance. They think that we are nothing more than uneducated fools that can't spot a con job when we see one.

These "Green Groups" may have started off with good intentions and the public welfare in mind way back when, but once they got a taste of the money to be made with their "Sue and Settle" tactics, and getting the government to fund their "Research" any thought of doing good was replaced by pure greed. California was the perfect place to raise the "Mercury Monster" due to its history of mining as well as the fact that there is a LOT of Mercury there naturally. Poisoning by Mercury is a nasty business and scares many people so it's the perfect thing to scare the bejesus out of the public with. If laws were passed to make sure that no one was able to profit from these cleanups, how long do you think it would be before the "Green Groups" stopped pushing for them? The public is starting to catch on to what has been happening and the more we can spread the word, the more of them will wake up to the fact that we've been deceived,