We all need to spread this far and wide

[Oakview2]

It needs to be seen by all miners, John Q pulbic. It exposes these green groups for exactly what they are. TV, radio, facebook, blogs, chatrooms whatever.

On December 12th the Western Mining Alliance received the
final report on the Department of Interior’s investigation into the
activities of Dr. Charles Alpers of the US Geological Survey.
In response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) filed by
the WMA, and a follow on request for an official investigation the
Department of Interior published the results of their investigation.
Dr. Charles Alpers, of the US Geological Survey (USGS) was
the lead mercury researcher for the water quality section of the
2011 Suction Dredging Environmental Impact Report (EIR). He
was responsible for collecting the data, and preparing the analysis
for the California Suction Dredging Environmental Impact Report
which concluded suction dredges were linked to high
methylmercury levels in wildlife.
He further stated there was only one year of testing data to
rely on.
In 2013 the WMA submitted a FOIA requesting all data
related to sampling of mercury on the South Yuba River, the same
location the suction dredge study took place. The information we
received proved over five years of data existed from research
funded by the Bureau of Land Management, and conducted by –
Dr. Charles Alpers.
When we evaluated all of the data we found there was natural
variability from year to year in mercury levels in wildlife, and the
levels of mercury in insects appeared to be directly linked to the
size of the spring flood. When we viewed all of the data there was
no linkage between mercury levels and dredging activity which
was in direct contradiction to Dr. Alpers’ findings.
The WMA submitted a request for an official investigation
alleging scientific misconduct over the withholding of the data set.
We met with the Department of Interior in June and discussed our
concerns.
Last week the Department of Interior provided us with their
report and it provides some stunning revelations.
The lead mercury researcher on the suction dredging EIR was
also a donor and member of The Sierra Fund. The Sierra Fund is
the organization which claims responsibility for developing the
legislation which banned suction dredging. They have publically
admitted they are opposed to suction dredging and they claimed
credit for writing the legislation which resulted in SB 670, the initial dredging ban.

 

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[azblackbird]

Again totally irrelevant to this thread!

Actually it is relevant. We're talking about paying attention... right? So what happened that one day a guy in CA could dredge for gold on a river, and the next day he couldn't? It appears to me that one side wasn't paying attention to what the other side was doing, and the next thing you know there's a bunch of people crying about how they were hoodwinked, or taken advantage of by the other side. So who is to blame?

 

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[TheGoldProspector]

Actually it is relevant. We're talking about paying attention... right? So what happened that one day a guy in CA could dredge for gold on a river, and the next day he couldn't? It appears to me that one side wasn't paying attention to what the other side was doing, and the next thing you know there's a bunch of people crying about how they were hoodwinked, or taken advantage of by the other side. So who is to blame?

Who is to blame?
Tough question, and even more difficult answers; esp to hear.

First, if we demand change, it will come from what each of us witness in the mirror's image.

Next, lobbying Needs to become an illegal act within politics, esp on congress floor.

Finally, we All need to regain morality, through our actions as well as our beliefs.

Without those All taking place, we are going to be swimming against the torrent. Full heartedly

 

[Goldwasher]

Actually it is relevant. We're talking about paying attention... right? So what happened that one day a guy in CA could dredge for gold on a river, and the next day he couldn't? It appears to me that one side wasn't paying attention to what the other side was doing, and the next thing you know there's a bunch of people crying about how they were hoodwinked, or taken advantage of by the other side. So who is to blame?

It didn't happen over night dredgers have had to fight tooth and nail since the early '80's to stay in the water. Fighting through several reg. changes. There have been numerous court battles and back and forth. We've been standing our ground for a long time now or it would have been banned a long time ago. You must not know very much about the history of modern day gold dredging or you wouldn't make such baseless statements. The point is that even though it has been proven numerous times that dredging has no negative effect to wildlife or the environment well funded groups will seek any means necessary to shut us down. Your all over the place with your statements and opinion. And have not yet come up with a factual relevant statement.Maybe you should do some actual research.

 

[Oakview2]

They attached the temp moratorium to the budget, the day before by law that it had to be passed. It did not go through a committee, no one knew anything about it, because that was the design. There was a democratic super majority, so it was no problem to make it permanent, and we have spent the last 5 years fighting the delays and attacks. This quickly spread to Oregon, and now the EPA is on the attack in Idaho. The CBD has desing of using the Endangered Species Act to completely close the Western United States. They didn't go after motorcyclist, they went after miners, few in number and highly independant and poorly organized. If you think you are immnune to this attack, you will be an easy target.


Actually it is relevant. We're talking about paying attention... right? So what happened that one day a guy in CA could dredge for gold on a river, and the next day he couldn't? It appears to me that one side wasn't paying attention to what the other side was doing, and the next thing you know there's a bunch of people crying about how they were hoodwinked, or taken advantage of by the other side. So who is to blame? [/QUOTE]

 

[minerrick]

What big operations are you talking about?

I think maybe Kayakpat means well, but I don't think he has a clue about what is happening here. Pat, there are no "big operations" that ruined anything. This whole thing was brought about by the environmental lobby. If you scan the internet, you will find lots of instances regarding ranchers, farmers, miners, loggers, and just normal rural folks that are being targeted by these people. The small miners is only a single front of a huge assault on the private property rights of private rural land owners and natural resource owners. Other good sites chronicling this process are: Defend Rural America, Siskiyou Water Users Assoc, Land and Water USA, Tom Remington's Blog, Junkscience.com, The SPPI Blog, JoNova Blog, Green Jihad blog, Range Magazine (great magazine to get for your coffee table), and dozens of other chroniclers. The information is out there if you are willing to look.

As I stated before in another thread, WMA filed a lawsuit against the environmental groups who wanted the ability to demand an new EIR from any company or organization that has a currently valid EIR and is operating under its restrictions. All the environmental groups have to do is cite a new species added to the endangered species list in order to shut down a company's operations (like they did with the suction dredgers). Center for Biological Diversity has proposed adding another 435 species this year alone and there are many other groups out there that are doing the same thing. They make their money by the equal access to justice act (look it up) as it is a very profitable way for the environmental groups to fund themselves by destroying the livelihoods of everyone in the wake of their pronouncements (sue and settle- look it up). By making any natural resource company stop their ability to make a profit in order to be continually updating their EIR to the tune of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars each time, is a recipe to destroy a small or medium sized business. Do you really wonder why small and mid sized mining companies steer clear of California, like the plague? No one can make any money in this environment, as they are driven to an unending money pit of regulation. 2015 seems to be a great year to destroy businesses as the economy is grinding down and it will become very ugly if this continues as it will destroy the rural economies.

The big picture view of this is the only businesses who will be able to stay open will be those with internationally deep pockets (multinational corporations). This agenda is driving the little guy out of business, forever. Maybe the enviro's think that they are "saving the planet", but they are destroying the fabric of the middle class in their efforts. It's a rather myopic viewpoint, in my own opinion.

Whats happening to the miners is the tip of the iceberg.

It's a private club, and you ain't in it (I love that George Carlin quote).

 

[Hoser John]

Dredging was killed in 1994 when the Permanent Dredge Committee was killed through blatent obstuctionism. We lost our only voice in Sacramento and in 7/10/07 in the Senate hearing we were sold out by RIGHTS groups 20 minutes of stupidity in a backroom deal ,the prior day, to throttle all the miners at the hearing. The best a the best with the most knowledge and experience,science,facts and figures were told to shut up and say YA OR NAY. I sent every senator a huge batch of everything they asked for at the meeting-30 or so pages of EPA,scientific info,mercury reclaimation program here in KALIF,etc etc and NOT A 1 READ A SINGLE SENTENCE. Meeting had a predetermined death sentence along with my beloved dredging. I just listened to all of the CD from the hearing and gets me sick to my stomach.......John----Thank the WMA--say what from that mean ol'dog who gave'm crappola for a year,YES-when anyone does something right they deserve a chance to flourish and they have earned that right repeatedly and are doing a amazing job in dire unpaid poverty-KUDOS AND A LONG PAST DUE SINCERE APOLOGY ALSO.....John

 

[fowledup]

Azblackbird- I certainly hope your right and are ready for your states upcoming battles. Seeing's how AZ is homebase for the Center for Biological Diversity your probably last, save you all for the grand finally, the coup de grace or maybe some sort of hara kiri who knows. So you are aware AZ has 80 species on the endangered list, three of which are Blackbirds.
I applaud your confidence in the people's ability to fight back and make change. Mine is waning, personally I don't think folks give a chit enough to get off their collective arses to do anything- see signature- "It aint that bad, could be worse!' pretty much sums up the attittude of the average American.
I too was once heavily involved with OHV use and road closures. I have been involved with state sanctioned clubs, held several officer and board positions on local 4X4 clubs. Former Trail leader for crews working Adopt a Trail programs. Worked events to educate Tread Lightly program, and led local road closure committee. So I can speak with some authority on the subject. Late 80's early 90's- thru the above mentioned programs we were able to keep open hundreds of miles of OHV trails, today I bet an 1/8 of them are available to the public or open year round. I'm personally land locked where I live, one road in- same road out. Less than 10 years ago I could leave my property and drive all day and never touch a highway. Shoot other then a few highway crossings I could make it to Nevada with out a care in the world. You nailed it when to paraphase, you stated - "One guy in the right position with power can make the difference" Absolutely 100% correct! And as long as it continues to be the educated, enviro machine backed world saving idealist - we will lose.

"The enviros think they are saving the planet but are destroying the fabric of the middle class in the process" Oh so true, inherently good people of this country thru blind faith and misdirection think they are doing whats right for everyone.

 

[minerrick]

There is a HUGE IRONY involved with the whole small scale businessman suction dredging situation that only a few people on this planet are aware of. There are so many twists and turns with this story; back room deals, obfuscation of all sorts and types, and just plain dirty dealing going on with this whole situation, from the beginning. Every party involved with this whole process had their own agenda. Even the best novelists couldn't keep up with the twists and turns of this story; it makes my head spin and I think I FINALLY get it. Those who wanted to prosper by our demise recognized that we were for the most part the "working class" and not well legally represented and unlike the multinational mining corporations that have armies of lawyers, we were relatively well organized via the Western Mining Association (Read that name carefully- its a different group that was responsible for making a huge positive footprint for the small scale miner), but the small miner didn't have the political, legal and monetary connections that were needed to prosper in our new fascist business model.

It's really quite amusing if you read through all the submissions to the DFG by the small scale miners in regards to the proposed SDEIR. From an overview, everyone is writing as if the State must have mis-read the scientific findings, or perhaps didn't actually read them (that was my supposition). Personally, I spent hours and hours researching what could be now called a mini-dissertation (Hoser John and rabideno both wrote maxi-dissertations submissions that painfully laid all the facts out- but no one apparently read). We should have saved our efforts. The State Water Board had a specific conclusion they wanted to see and all they needed was the science to make it fit. If you are not politically connected or mega rich, you don't get to play the game. The reason SF is playing the game and the miners aren't is that SF has convinced the dupes in their local region that they are "saving the planet" from the dirty miners. The local millionares are showering TSF with huge donations. The people who run the SF are political pros, and in retrospect, you have to appreciate their skill in making their pet project appear to be what it isn't. Their chess moves were brilliant in execution and the small scale miners had their heads handed to them. Kudos for a job well done.

I guess what I am getting at is after spending many years in this skirmish, I am amazed that it is whole meme is a giant hologram. Nothing is as it appears. You think you are dealing with a fair and impartial governing entity and you are not. A lot of the groups and agencies that you think have similar interests and are on your side, don't and aren't. There is no "indifferent" State Agency, as they all have political pressures on them from very well connected organizations. It's a dog eat dog world and we all need to wake up and recognize we aren't in Kansas anymore.

It's time the small miner needs to coalesce into a single organized group to defend our right to run our small businesses as we see fit (in an environmentally sound way). As long as the mining community is split amongst several groups with competing interests, we are squandering our resources as there is no organized front.

 

[fowledup]

When you see a little Chiuahua yapping and growling you shake your head laugh, and move on because that's what they do and you expect it. When a 100lb Doberman lays it's ears back, snarls, and shows you it's teeth you take immediate notice and back the ell up. We are the Chiuahua's we need to be the Dobie!

 

[azblackbird]

It's time the small miner needs to coalesce into a single organized group to defend our right to run our small businesses as we see fit (in an environmentally sound way). As long as the mining community is split amongst several groups with competing interests, we are squandering our resources as there is no organized front.

Forming organized groups and clubs, hiring lobbyists, running your own candidates for office should have been done years ago before all this BS came to light. It's not to late, however, the greenies have a good head start on you guys, but once they're confronted with opposition equaling theirs who can call them on their BS, they easily fold under the pressure. BTDT!

I'm not going to tell you guys in CA how to run your affairs, but I would highly suggest you form some sort of a "Miners Ambassador Group" who can work with the various government entities, opposition groups, and anybody else deemed detrimental to your affairs. I would model the "Miners Ambassador Group" similar to the StreamSavers organization. Somebody mentioned mercury disposal stations... that in my opinion would be a good start to showing the greenies that the small-scale miners really do care about the environment. There's no reason why the miners and dredgers of CA can't work hand in hand with the opposition to achieve a common goal.

There's a saying... "keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer"... we did that here in AZ with our OHV Ambassador program. Now the greenies love us because we proved to them that we can more or less "self regulate" ourselves, and work with the various government entities in helping them preserve our public lands and environment. Did we have to make a few concessions? Yeah, but nothing real major. We agreed to close a few trails here and there, but as an aside, we also got to build some new trails. The cool part is, we now have millions of dollars in our war chest for more trail building, education, etc. and the greenies have pretty much left us alone.

There's no reason whatsoever that you guys who dredge/mine in CA can't do something similar!

 

[Hoser John]

It's called a Dredge Committee,an all inclusive approach in days of old as EVERY form of mining is discussed--oops should say WAS discussed. Just found my working group list of the formal committee,what a righteous attempt,just to be obstructed by fillabuster,7 years a work flushed....sic sic sic-John

 

[Goldwasher]

all good Ideas Blackbird and it's all been done before that is our major frustration....There are several groups formed ready and willing to work together with these agencies. Problems start when congressional rights are trampled, and meetings are held just to go through the motions when the other sides out come is pre determined. Keep in mind that a good percentage of miners are also fisherman,hunters, and off roaders so to speak. The push against those groups is different in Cali. than in Az. we have a population of 30+ MILLION one of our counties has more people in it than your whole state. Votes and political agenda don't work the same here. The off roaders fare better here than the miners as the participants per capita are larger. 3000 dredgers out of 30 million is an almost unnoticeable amount and the green groups know it. That is why they bank on whittling us down, and spread lies and propaganda to an unknowing and typically uncaring population who will vote yes on one thing even if a bill attached destroys something else they know nothing about because it doesn't affect their day to day.Your original suggestion that I griped at you for would not help maintain justice so we don't like it. Your last suggestion is right on....Yet, your assumption that we haven't been fighting much less even trying is incorrect. It gets pretty frustrating when you participate, contribute and try to do what is right and your shown the whole way that there is an agenda and that the groups against you could care less about the law, the science and the proof. What we need is judges who do their job!

 

[goldenIrishman]

Amen GW! Judges are SUPPOSED to be upholding the laws of the land, not bowing down to pressure from special interest groups. IMHO: Any judge that give into these groups for any reason other than a legal one should be removed from the bench and disbarred as he is NOT upholding the laws.