WAS THE CANDLE WORTH THE GAME?

[franklin]

...and the "source" of the Beale story is Ward's published account of receiving a FINISHED MANUSCRIPT in 1884 from an unnamed author concerning what was told to him by Robert Morriss on his deathbed during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
The finished manuscript did not include the "ORIGINAL" Beale letters or ciphers on which the entire story is based on the word of James Beverly Ward as agent for copyright and publisher, which is really not the same as confirmation that the Beale story or that of the unnamed author is true.

The original letters were not in the published, Job Print Pamphlet of the Beale Papers but a copy of the letters was in the pamphlet. I know without the original letters the story still could have been made up but the story also could be fact? We simply do not know unless someone in their searches can find a confirmation or a letter stating they made the story up to sale for profit.

 

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[Eldo]

...and the "source" of the Beale story is Ward's published account of receiving a FINISHED MANUSCRIPT in 1884 from an unnamed author concerning what was told to him by Robert Morriss on his deathbed during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
The finished manuscript did not include the "ORIGINAL" Beale letters or ciphers on which the entire story is based on the word of James Beverly Ward as agent for copyright and publisher, which is really not the same as confirmation that the Beale story or that of the unnamed author is true.

And if you would merely consider the fact that the Pamphlet was written by a forger with the interest of passing on encrypted information, you would at least discredit the so-called historical record and look for a more suitable explanation for all of the inconsistencies.

As if they are deemed incorrect by the research you hold, you would then rule out that theory instead of propagating the assumption that it must contain "Authentic Statements" that will lead you to your indulgence.

You are still playing the roles feeding argumentative banter in place of legitimate investigation into the reason that it was encrypted in the first place.....

The only reason that these are encrypted in any fashion is to conceal something, and to do that they showed you how ignorant that they were to the facts that they used as a cover story.

These separatists were clearly not spending enough time in their Grand Lodges, and instead they were colluding in "Castles" as you clearly have forgotten.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And if you would merely consider the fact that the Pamphlet was written by a forger with the interest of passing on encrypted information, you would at least discredit the so-called historical record and look for a more suitable explanation for all of the inconsistencies.

As if they are deemed incorrect by the research you hold, you would then rule out that theory instead of propagating the assumption that it must contain "Authentic Statements" that will lead you to your indulgence.

You are still playing the roles feeding argumentative banter in place of legitimate investigation into the reason that it was encrypted in the first place.....

The only reason that these are encrypted in any fashion is to conceal something, and to do that they showed you how ignorant that they were to the facts that they used as a cover story.

These separatists were clearly not spending enough time in their Grand Lodges, and instead they were colluding in "Castles" as you clearly have forgotten.

KGC Castles became OAK "conclaves" after the Confederate War... MOSTLY by RR.

 

[ECS]

And if you would merely consider the fact that the Pamphlet was written by a forger with the interest of passing on encrypted information, you would at least discredit the so-called historical record and look for a more suitable explanation for all of the inconsistencies...

If one considers your "forger scenario" for the creation of the BEALE PAPERS, the must provide a direct connection to the agent of copyright and publisher, James Beverly Ward, and the printer, John William Sherman, AND the reason for involvement with this alleged "forger".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

If one considers your "forger scenario" for the creation of the BEALE PAPERS, the must provide a direct connection to the agent of copyright and publisher, James Beverly Ward, and the printer, John William Sherman, AND the reason for involvement with this alleged "forger".

AGREE!

 

[ECS]

Why you think he did not have anything to do with the Beale Treasure.
His father was old enough to serve in the Civil War in a Special Unit that no one even knows what they did.His father was in South America before the Civil War.
His father also attended to Robert Morris with his stay at Anzoletta Saunders, his grandmother's home.
So yes Clarence and Piggly Wiggly had a lot to do with the Beale Treasure...

...and no, Clarence Saunders and PIGGLY WIGGLY never had anything to do with the Beale Treasure beyond being a footnote on minimal interest.

 

[ECS]

ECS, Since we can never find any means of proving the story by the Beale Papers or the Job Print Pamphlet which contains the papers, we have to search else where for the information that could tell us that Robert Morris actually passed this information to the author.
Robert Morris' obituary tells us that he died at the home of his niece, Mrs. David Saunders.
If Robert Morris passed this information to the author then this is where we have to search to find out if in-fact he did pass this information to someone else and to whom.
So the location of where the David Saunders Jr.'s house is very important to find...
Still if you do not think any of this has anything to do with solving the mystery of the Beale Papers, then you do not want the mystery solved, you just want to keep posting that all of this has nothing to do with the 1885 Beale Papers.
You will never solve anything.

And with all this added information of locating houses and descendants still hasn't solved the very basic question- "Did the Beale Party perilous adventure treasure story happen outside of the pamphlet's 23 pages?

 

[franklin]

There's no hope for you.

 

[ECS]

I have not ruled out completely one way or the other about the Beale Treasure as to whether it is a true story or a story of fiction.
I have documents of two brothers. Both lived near where Robert Morris died in January, 1863.
One brother paid for a trip to St. Louis for his other brother in 1862.
Then the first brother that paid for that trip borrowed money from that brother to make his own trip to St. Louis, MO. sometime around 1873. He died the following year.
Now these two trips were made for some secret reason. One of their sons when asked about the trips would not disclose what the trips were for?
Strange. What was their secret?

What is strange is that this or any other "outside"speculation is related to whether or not the Thomas J Beale story was true, because nothing ever gets resolved, just a continuous mobius trop of maybe, could be, and if that keeps repeating and never ends.

It seems that Charles W Button "solved" or "resolved" the mystery years ago when he stated that his sub-editor, John William Sherman, wrote the Beale Papers, and then most likely had his cousin apply for copyright as agent and publisher.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So...for YOU, LET IT GO!

 

[ECS]

We can throw what information we have around and around. But we can still not confirm one way or the other whether the story actually happened or not.
We need some letter, some diary or anything that mentions the story being made up for sale to make money for a charity or cause. There is none.
We know we can not find any factual information to confirm the trip of TJB and his companions out West. Without the trip out West is where all of these different beliefs and text keep coming in to play by different individuals claiming a "SOLVE" Without the proof of anyone going West there is nothing but a "FICTION STORY" left for us to see.
I have went over the Spanish Archives of the Southwest during that time frame. No party of thirty white Americans or thirty French trappers ever came to Sante Fe for the Winter in 1817.
So with no confirmation of them being in Sante Fe proves that the Beale Story is just that a "STORY"
All of these other tangents skewing off from the "Job Print Pamphlet" are unfounded.
All of these myths of someone "DECODING" the cipher codes is all unfounded and all the stories of KGC, CSA or anything else is far fetched.
So all we have left is a "FICTION STORY" Good Luck ECS. When you come to the end of the story close up the book.

As you stated, "all of these tangents skewing off from the "Job Print Pamphlet" are unfounded", yet they continue with no resolve, just more random information thrown into the already crowded mix of facts, some related some not, some "fictionalized. all in feeble attempts to prove a localized dime novel story with play along parlor entertainment ciphers.

Charles W Button provided the answer when he stated that John William Sherman, his sub-editor at the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, wrote the Beale Papers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

As you stated, "all of these tangents skewing off from the "Job Print Pamphlet" are unfounded", yet they continue with no resolve, just more random information thrown into the already crowded mix of facts, some related some not, some "fictionalized. all in feeble attempts to prove a localized dime novel story with play along parlor entertainment ciphers.

Charles W Button provided the answer when he stated that John William Sherman, his sub-editor at the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, wrote the Beale Papers.

And for YOU... close the book; THANKS!

 

[ECS]

As you stated, "all of these tangents skewing off from the "Job Print Pamphlet" are unfounded", yet they continue with no resolve, just more random information thrown into the already crowded mix of facts, some related some not, some "fictionalized. all in feeble attempts to prove a localized dime novel story with play along parlor entertainment ciphers.

Charles W Button provided the answer when he stated that John William Sherman, his sub-editor at the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, wrote the Beale Papers.

Then there is that article in an 1886 BEDFORD SENTINEL weekly edition on page 15 that mention court clerk, R D Buford, son of Pascal and Francis Buford of Buford's Inn, after being contacted by Vincent A Witcher about his ancestor's name being mentioned in the Beale Papers, had James Beverly Ward remove the Job Print Pamphlet from sale.
Another clue that it was considered a fictional adventure treasure dime novel story with play along ciphers in 1885 Lynchburg is the apparent lack of sales, with the original price of 50 cents being reduced to 10 cents.
It appears that no one in 1885 Lynchburg grabbed a shovel and went treasure hunting in Bedford county as John William Sherman's tongue in cheek pamphlet review in the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN advised.
Of course, there are those "warnings" and "disclaimers" in the Beale narrative about neglecting one's business affairs looking for Beale's treasure vault.
It seems that those in 1885 Lynchburg were aware that the Beale perilous adventure treasure was just that, a story.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

NO proof, as copy of the same NEVER found...

 

[ECS]

NO proof, as copy of the same NEVER found...

The copy of the BEDFORD SENTINEL does exist, just takes a bit more than a google search to find.

 

[franklin]

The copy of the BEDFORD SENTINEL does exist, just takes a bit more than a google search to find.

Somebody will have to log into Ancestry.com to find it. I am not a member.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The copy of the BEDFORD SENTINEL does exist, just takes a bit more than a google search to find.

NEVER googled it... YOU would have to go to the Bedford city/county Library.

 

[franklin]

NEVER googled it... YOU would have to go to the Bedford city/county Library.

Or Jones Memorial Library

 

[Rebel - KGC]

YEP!

 

[ECS]

There's no hope for you.

Why do you make remarks like this?
Then there is Rebel-KGC's "let it go" "close the book" and other cute bon mots that appear to be cloaked hostility.
When have I ever criticized either of you, or told you there was no hope or let it go or close the book?
None of us hold an exclusive franchise on researching the Beale tale, I just post my findings and let the chips fall where they may.
If they conflict with your beliefs on the matter, state your point and prove me wrong instead of this constant barrage of petty pot shot remarks.