WAS THE CANDLE WORTH THE GAME?

[franklin]

That does not provide confirmation of Claudine Fulton Ellis's claim that Helms killed Brugh to keep him from delivering Beale's "key" letter to Morriss.
As with the Beale Papers and Hart Papers, No outside supporting evidence exists, just endless speculation to fit actual people and locations into the presented stories, similar to the mention of actual names in the original Beale Papers to create the illusion of credibility to the story narrative and ciphers.

I keep telling you it is Nelms not Helms.

 

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[ECS]

YOUR opinion...

...and my opinion of your opinion...
is probably the same meat off the other side of the bone.

 

[ECS]

I keep telling you it is Nelms not Helms.

You are correct, sometimes my faded handwritten notes become harder to read over the years.
With that said, is there any collaborating evidence outside if the claims of Claudine Fulton Ellis that confirm this Beale after story on why Beale's "key" letter was never delivered to Morriss?
It has been established that Evarist Maury was the proprietor of the original St Louis frame Planters Hotel on 2nd street near the river that was opened for business in 1817.

 

[franklin]

You are correct, sometimes my faded handwritten notes become harder to read over the years.
With that said, is there any collaborating evidence outside if the claims of Claudine Fulton Ellis that confirm this Beale after story on why Beale's "key" letter was never delivered to Morriss?
It has been established that Evarist Maury was the proprietor of the original St Louis frame Planters Hotel on the river that was built in 1822.

You need to read those CIA and Fawcett letters again. In there somewhere it says the Planter's Hotel was built before 1817.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

...and my opinion of your opinion...
is probably the same meat off the other side of the bone.

FAT!

 

[ECS]

You need to read those CIA and Fawcett letters again. In there somewhere it says the Planter's Hotel was built before 1817.

There is NO mention of Claudine Fulton Ellis , Brugh, Nelms in Fawcett's or in CIA letters, so there seems to be NO collaborating evidence outside of Ellis's claims that can confirm her undelivered Beale "key" letter story.

 

[ECS]

FAT!

Indeed. Lots of fat on the Beale bone but no real meat.
Bon appetite!

 

[franklin]

There is NO mention of Claudine Fulton Ellis , Brugh, Nelms in Fawcett's or in CIA letters, so there seems to be NO collaborating evidence outside of Ellis's claims that can confirm her undelivered Beale "key" letter story.

I can take you to the grave of the two men killed by Nelms and one of them is George Radar Brugh. If you can get permission to dig them up along side the highway?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

DO IT!

 

[ECS]

I can take you to the grave of the two men killed by Nelms and one of them is George Radar Brugh. If you can get permission to dig them up along side the highway?

How would this prove that George Radar Brugh was the proprietor of the Planter Hotel in St Louis and not Evarist Maury during the period of Thomas J Beale's alleged stay and that he attempted to hand deliver Beale's "key" letter to Robert Morriss, or that Brugh even knew Thomas J Beale who has never been successfully or positively identified as a real person outside of the BEALE PAPERS?
If memory serves correct, you stated on another thread that Claudine Fulton Ellis took you to Brugh's unmarked gravesite revealed to her through her psychic clairvoyant visions.

 

[franklin]

How would this prove that George Radar Brugh was the proprietor of the Planter Hotel in St Louis and not Evarist Maury during the period of Thomas J Beale's alleged stay and that he attempted to hand deliver Beale's "key" letter to Robert Morriss, or that Brugh even knew Thomas J Beale who has never been successfully or positively identified as a real person outside of the BEALE PAPERS?
If memory serves correct, you stated on another thread that Claudine Fulton Ellis took you to Brugh's unmarked gravesite revealed to her through her psychic clairvoyant visions.

I can tell you that something really weird happened when I met Claudine Fulton Ellis at the lot where the Blackhorse Tavern stood. She showed me where a basement was sunk in where she played as a little girl. She said it always felt like the wind was blowing through the rocks. I believe the old tavern had a tunnel to the steep bank off to the creek about 200 feet away and was used as an escape tunnel for either bad men, pirates or the underground railroad during the Civil War. When we were there the Sun was shining and the grass was brown and low to the ground.

The next evening Claudine Fulton Ellis telephoned me and asked do you remember how the grass was brown and low to the ground yesterday? I replied that I did. She replied, "Well you need to come up here and see this?" I asked her what was wrong? She said, "Well the grass is high and the weeds are waist high." I said no way. She said well you had better come up here and see this for yourself. Well I did and the weeds and grass were almost unwalkable without getting your feet tangled up and falling. I asked Claudine, how could this have happened. She said she did not know but isn't it strange it was as though we had been there at another time of the year. Really strange.

Later, we went to the Old Peaks Presbyterian Church were Ebenezer Nelms was married in 1826 and Thomas Beale was his best man. The parking lot was where we had to walk up some concrete steps to the ground where the church stood and then up other steps into the Church. It was really hot that day. I got to the concrete steps first and I felt a cold wind hitting me in the face and turned to the other side and let Claudine and her sister go up the steps first. Claudine started to take the first step and see asked me wow do you feel that and I said like I didn't know, "What?" She said that cold wind. She someone must be buried under the steps. The following Sunday Claudine and her sister went to church at the Peaks Presbyterian Church. She telephoned me and said do you remember that cold wind? And I said, "yes" Well it is not there anymore as she had exorcised or something the two ghost that were buried under the steps. I do not know exactly what she did but I did go back later on another hot day and I did not feel the ice cold wind.

I know these two examples can not be explained as there are many things in life that can not be explained. But such is life. Ridicule, laugh say what you will but these two happenings are real and they did happen.

 

[releventchair]

I can tell you that something really weird happened when I met Claudine Fulton Ellis at the lot where the Blackhorse Tavern stood. She showed me where a basement was sunk in where she played as a little girl. She said it always felt like the wind was blowing through the rocks. I believe the old tavern had a tunnel to the steep bank off to the creek about 200 feet away and was used as an escape tunnel for either bad men, pirates or the underground railroad during the Civil War. When we were there the Sun was shining and the grass was brown and low to the ground.

The next evening Claudine Fulton Ellis telephoned me and asked do you remember how the grass was brown and low to the ground yesterday? I replied that I did. She replied, "Well you need to come up here and see this?" I asked her what was wrong? She said, "Well the grass is high and the weeds are waist high." I said no way. She said well you had better come up here and see this for yourself. Well I did and the weeds and grass were almost unwalkable without getting your feet tangled up and falling. I asked Claudine, how could this have happened. She said she did not know but isn't it strange it was as though we had been there at another time of the year. Really strange.

Later, we went to the Old Peaks Presbyterian Church were Ebenezer Nelms was married in 1826 and Thomas Beale was his best man. The parking lot was where we had to walk up some concrete steps to the ground where the church stood and then up other steps into the Church. It was really hot that day. I got to the concrete steps first and I felt a cold wind hitting me in the face and turned to the other side and let Claudine and her sister go up the steps first. Claudine started to take the first step and see asked me wow do you feel that and I said like I didn't know, "What?" She said that cold wind. She someone must be buried under the steps. The following Sunday Claudine and her sister went to church at the Peaks Presbyterian Church. She telephoned me and said do you remember that cold wind? And I said, "yes" Well it is not there anymore as she had exorcised or something the two ghost that were buried under the steps. I do not know exactly what she did but I did go back later on another hot day and I did not feel the ice cold wind.

I know these two examples can not be explained as there are many things in life that can not be explained. But such is life. Ridicule, laugh say what you will but these two happenings are real and they did happen.

Tavern sold near here and is a rehabbed building and restaurant now.

Had a tiny stream/pizz of a creek under it. Reduced in flow over the many decades. A shallow basement took advantage of the cooling effect of the moving cold water for chilling things as well as any springhouse for refrigeration. (Water which would also have prevented freezing in most winter temps.)

Foul weather had/has folks appreciative of tunnels to water. Even if only for water access's sake.

For wary tavern guests....Know where the back and front doors lead. And of course , don't get Shanghaied through the floor!

 

[ECS]

...
Later, we went to the Old Peaks Presbyterian Church were Ebenezer Nelms was married in 1826 and Thomas Beale was his best man...

Are you alluding that this "best man" Thomas Beale is the same Thomas J Beale of the Beale Papers story?

 

[franklin]

Are you alluding that this "best man" Thomas Beale is the same Thomas J Beale of the Beale Papers story?

Yes sir. That means he had made his third trip to Virginia. Maybe they split the treasure and went their separate ways and left Robert Morris holding the bag as they did not need him as none of them were killed. Just another scenerio.

 

[ECS]

Where is the "J"?
...and if he is the "Beale", why was George Radar Brugh still attempting to deliver the "key" letter when killed by Ebenezer Nelms when they all could left Robert Morriss holding the bag?

 

[franklin]

Where is the "J"?
...and if he is the "Beale", why was George Radar Brugh still attempting to deliver the "key" letter when killed by Ebenezer Nelms when they all could left Robert Morriss holding the bag?

Let's see. George Radar Brugh was coming through Roanoke, Virginia at the Blackhorse Tavern to give Robert Morris of Lynchburg, Virginia the "KEY" to the cipher codes in 1832 or a little later. Thomas Beale and his partners had already split their shares of the treasure in or around 1826. Makes sense to me that six years later, Ebenezer Nelms and his partners did not want to share their treasure with Robert Morris. Most of their shares had already been split or invested. Makes sense to me that they would not want that message delivered to Robert Morris. Their alternative would have been to kill George Radar Brugh and his friend. That way no body would know.

 

[ECS]

Considering that the Thomas J Beale character of the Beale Papers has never been successfully identified as a real person or that his perilous adventure treasure tale was ever proven to have happen, as well at his stay with Robert Morriss , is there any real documentation for this Brugh/Nelms story beyond wishful speculation?
Does this need to be added to the "questionable information posted as fact" list?

 

[ECS]

Duplicate message cancelled.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Where is the "J"?
...and if he is the "Beale", why was George Radar Brugh still attempting to deliver the "key" letter when killed by Ebenezer Nelms when they all could left Robert Morriss holding the bag?

"J" was for Jean (Lafitte); he knew Thomas Beale, Sr. down in New Orleans... they BOTH loved Thomas Jefferson. More COFFEE!

 

[ECS]

...but not the Thomas J Beale character of the Beale Papers, but the Thomas Beale who fought the duel with James Beverly Risqué, Ward's grandfather.