WAS THE CANDLE WORTH THE GAME?

[franklin]

...but not the Thomas J Beale character of the Beale Papers, but the Thomas Beale who fought the duel with James Beverly Risqué, Ward's grandfather.

We do not know that Thomas Beale that had the duel with James Beverly Risque had the "J" as a middle initial. That Thomas Beale left over the duel and went to New Orleans. Went across the Atlantic and then came back and married the Governor's daughter. And we know he was not the Thomas Beale of the Beale Treasure and neither was his illegitimate son Thomas Beale, Jr. There was a Thomas J. Beall that was a Captain went down the Mississippi to New Orleans in 1816. But he has been proven not the right Thomas J. Beale either. There were two other Thomas J. Beale's and only one of them could have been the Thomas J. Beale of the treasure story. He was the son of Samuel Beale from Richmond County, Virginia. Later moved to Alexandria and maybe eventually to Kentucky. Do not have enough information about him yet?

Robert Morris also had a sister living in Kentucky.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

"J" was for Jean (Lafitte); he knew Thomas Beale, Sr. down in New Orleans... they BOTH loved Thomas Jefferson. More COFFEE!

Jean & Pierre had all that Spanish "booty" to MOVE! So a FAKE name of "TJB" was created for Thomas J. (JEAN) Beale. Jean/Pierre even looked the part per RM... heh. Gold & Silver coins, Jewelry... LAWDY!

 

[ECS]

I hope you are not relighting the John A Laflin candle. WE all have already eaten that cake!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I hope you are not relighting the John A Laflin candle. WE all have already eaten that cake!

NOPE!

 

[Treasures2Find]

ECS, you remind me of the kid who stood and watched the other children having fun, and because he was not having fun, he threw rocks at them. He didn't know he could join in and have the same fun the others were having. Or maybe he did know, but he just didn't want to play with others. Maybe he just enjoyed throwing rocks.
Your Beale phobia is keeping you from playing with others on this forum. You don't like the topic, but rather than walk away and leave people alone to enjoy the threads, you'd rather throw rocks at them, because there's something inside you that just won't let you play along. Is it really that hard for you to understand that there are some posters on here who actually enjoy discussing the Beale story, whether it's true, false, or somewhere in between? Is it too much to ask that these posters be allowed to use these pages without being pelted almost every time they post?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ECS, you remind me of the kid who stood and watched the other children having fun, and because he was not having fun, he threw rocks at them. He didn't know he could join in and have the same fun the others were having. Or maybe he did know, but he just didn't want to play with others. Maybe he just enjoyed throwing rocks.
Your Beale phobia is keeping you from playing with others on this forum. You don't like the topic, but rather than walk away and leave people alone to enjoy the threads, you'd rather throw rocks at them, because there's something inside you that just won't let you play along. Is it really that hard for you to understand that there are some posters on here who actually enjoy discussing the Beale story, whether it's true, false, or somewhere in between? Is it too much to ask that these posters be allowed to use these pages without being pelted almost every time they post?

AGREE!

 

[ECS]

ECS, you remind me of the kid who stood and watched the other children having fun, and because he was not having fun, he threw rocks at them. He didn't know he could join in and have the same fun the others were having. Or maybe he did know, but he just didn't want to play with others. Maybe he just enjoyed throwing rocks...

Are you not casting stones at me on this thread which I started and others came on with their comments?
Let's see, a new member (or possibly an old member with a new name) with 22 posts listed with several chastising posts aimed at me makes it appear that you, Treasure2Find have a personal problem with me and an agenda.
If you has a problem with my discussion points, address them and prove me wrong with facts, instead of these tirades against me that really serve no purpose at all except maybe to fill what is lacking in your knowledge in the Beale topic or possibly, yourself.

 

[Treasures2Find]

Are you not casting stones at me on this thread which I started and others came on with their comments?
Let's see, a new member (or possibly an old member with a new name) with 22 posts listed with several chastising posts aimed at me makes it appear that you, Treasure2Find have a personal problem with me and an agenda.
If you has a problem with my discussion points, address them and prove me wrong with facts, instead of these tirades against me that really serve no purpose at all except maybe to fill what is lacking in your knowledge in the Beale topic or possibly, yourself.

My only problem with you is the same problem every poster on here has with you. That is, all of us who would like to discuss topics without being harassed by the same old, worn out tirade that you seem to be stuck in.
Whether I'm a new poster, or a former poster who has returned, doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with the discussion, so why would that be important to you? It's just a point of you thinking you can get one over on someone, right?

My saying that you're casting stones at posters who would like to post in peace, isn't casting stones back at you, it's simply acknowledging that stones are being thrown. Everyone who reads these threads knows what I mean, and they all know that it's true.

The topic, "was the candle worth the game" is subjective. Maybe the game is worth the candle to one, but not to another. My question to you is, if the game is not worth the candle, then why on earth do you continue to burn it?

 

[ECS]

My only problem with you is the same problem every poster on here has with you...
Whether I'm a new poster, or a former poster who has returned, doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with the discussion, so why would that be important to you?
It's just a point of you thinking you can get one over on someone, right? ...

So you, now on your 24th post, are representing "every poster on here" when it is obvious that it is only your "problem"?
Why is this so important to you?
...and in your august opinion, what am I getting "one over on someone", and who, please tell, who is that someone?
Was your candle worth the game"
Thank you for the laugh, you have been quite amusing.

 

[Treasures2Find]

So you, now on your 24th post, are representing "every poster on here" when it is obvious that it is only your "problem"?
Why is this so important to you?
...and in your august opinion, what am I getting "one over on someone", and who, please tell, who is that someone?
Was your candle worth the game"
Thank you for the laugh, you have been quite amusing.

So you're going to obsess over my post number, instead of addressing the real issue. I'm not surprised. I think you know what problem I'm referring to, and I also think you know that it's a problem for many posters on here, some who are still here, and many who have gone. To post without harassment. Is that too much to ask? Well, I guess it is.

Are you actually going to pretend to not know what I meant by getting one over on someone? Really?

 

[ECS]

Please expound.
You do realize that you are the one doing the harassing, don't you?

 

[Treasures2Find]

Please expound.
You do realize that you are the one doing the harassing, don't you?

I haven't been following your posts to tell you how wrong you are. You do exactly that with every poster on here that has differing views than your own.
I am speaking up now, because you can push people only so far. On behalf of many Beale posters, I ask you to please stop the rock throwing.
Honestly, I don't think there's anyone on here, except maybe one or two, who are convinced, without a shadow of doubt, that the Beale story is 100% truth. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it, and in our discussions, we would appreciate a little consideration on your part.

 

[ECS]

I haven't been following your posts to tell you how wrong you are...

It does appear that you do to make all these judgements.

 

[Treasures2Find]

It does appear that you do to make all these judgements.

It seems you forgot to read the rest of the post. Old age?

 

[ECS]

It seems you forgot to read the rest of the post. Old age?

Are you now resorting to ageist insults?

 

[Treasures2Find]

Are you now resorting to ageist insults?

I simplr ashed a question. Did you not see the question mark?

 

[ECS]

One can not "forget the Beale Papers" as it is the ONLY source of this fabulous perilous adventure treasure story, no collaborating evidence outside of the pamphlet to support the Beale adventure, his stay with Morriss and at Buford's, or Robert Morriss passing the tale on to an alleged "unknown author".

There are ONLY three references in the Beale Papers that can be verified, and placed as believable bait to encourage sales:
The home where Sarah Mitchell Morris died
The home where Robert Morris died (neither of these residences owners are mentioned by name)
"On old and valued friend"- Max Guggenheimer (who had copies of the dime novel pamphlet at his store for sale)

Another curious aspect in the Beale narrative are the ciphers.
The provided DOI "solved" C2 has flaws in the numbering, as if the original person doing the coding candle had burned out, and was later completed by another who lack the same cipher acumen.
The remaining C1& C3 ciphers appear to be numbers randomly used with no attempt at creating a real message.
If the original cipher creator died, that may explain why Ward applied for copyright with only the title and not a copy of the alleged "unnamed authors" finished manuscript that was given Ward for the sole purpose of copyright and publishing.

 

[ECS]

We can throw what information we have around and around. But we can still not confirm one way or the other whether the story actually happened or not.
We need some letter, some diary or anything that mentions the story being made up for sale to make money for a charity or cause. There is none.
We know we can not find any factual information to confirm the trip of TJB and his companions out West. Without the trip out West is where all of these different beliefs and text keep coming in to play by different individuals claiming a "SOLVE"
Without the proof of anyone going West there is nothing but a "FICTION STORY" left for us to see.
I have went over the Spanish Archives of the Southwest during that time frame. No party of thirty white Americans or thirty French trappers ever came to Sante Fe for the Winter in 1817.
So with no confirmation of them being in Sante Fe proves that the Beale Story is just that a "STORY"
All of these other tangents skewing off from the "Job Print Pamphlet" are unfounded.
All of these myths of someone "DECODING" the cipher codes is all unfounded and all the stories of KGC, CSA or anything else is far fetched. So all we have left is a "FICTION STORY" ...

The point that seems always to be missed, is that the BEALE PAPERS was a "FICTION STORY" written specifically to be sold in 1885 Lynchburg, a localized period adventure treasure dime novel with the ciphers added as a play along puzzle as parlor entertainment.
There were probably apparent "tells" in the narrative that would have been recognized by those in 1885 Lynchburg, for no one picked up a shovel and went to Bedford county as directed by William Sherman's tongue in cheek pamphlet review in the LYNCHBURG VIRGIAN newspaper.

 

[Treasures2Find]

The point that seems always to be missed, is that the BEALE PAPERS was a "FICTION STORY" written specifically to be sold in 1885 Lynchburg, a localized period adventure treasure dime novel with the ciphers added as a play along puzzle as parlor entertainment.
There were probably apparent "tells" in the narrative that would have been recognized by those in 1885 Lynchburg, for no one picked up a shovel and went to Bedford county as directed by William Sherman's tongue in cheek pamphlet review in the LYNCHBURG VIRGIAN newspaper.

Did you say "probably"?

 

[ECS]

How are you going to find any information as to the truth of the Beale Papers if we do not research into the people and places of where the story originated?
There is no answer in the Pamphlet called the Beale Papers so we have to go to the source of the story...

...and the "source" of the Beale story is Ward's published account of receiving a FINISHED MANUSCRIPT in 1884 from an unnamed author concerning what was told to him by Robert Morriss on his deathbed during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
The finished manuscript did not include the "ORIGINAL" Beale letters or ciphers on which the entire story is based on the word of James Beverly Ward as agent for copyright and publisher, which is really not the same as confirmation that the Beale story or that of the unnamed author is true.