WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

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bigscoop said:
Now give pause...."Risque"....Dutch? German? English?......."French". You've just tied all of the referenced names to a "French" bloodline/source.
If anyone has located Thomas J. "Beale" let him speak now...not Beal, Beall, or some other name of convenience, not likely his name was spelled wrong. I've yet to find anyone who has found him.....and they likely never will. Why?

Yep.....got internet already. Lucky you guys, right! :laughing7: I can see Reb now....:BangHead:...:laughing7:
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Was Beale actually from France? If so, have you found him there?
 

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I personally believe the Beale Papers are easily proven to be a fiction- so I'm not worried about the origins of Beale per se. But the surname is English with likely an Old French root- "Beale" - from - "Beal" - from- "Bel" (or belle in modern French- meaning beautiful).
 

The Enigmatist said:
Reb- You are always a great source. I want to make sure we are talking about the same man as there were two George L. Harts; Sr (the writer of the Hart Papers) and Jr, his son, who was a Fed Court judge. I know that Sr. lived in DC...was he also a judge? Here's a pic of Jr. View attachment 1082529
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It WAS Junior; nah, senior wasn't a Judge. Only senior was "made" 32nd, tho.
 

The Enigmatist said:
Reb is pointing out something key. If you're from the Commonwealth you will be aware that there were a large amount of French Huguenots in Virginia (including branches of my own family- the Michauxs, Rochets, Fuquas, and many others)- which makes Virginia a tad different than most of the Colonies....we have a large French contingent which you don't find in other colonies (remembering the New Orleans was part of New France- and not a British colony). They were "recruited" by the English because they were Protestants and sent west of Richmond to act as a buffer community against the Manakin natives. The whole area around Goochland County today is still riddled with Hugi placenames and "towns"...and the county road which is south of the I64 is called "Huguenot Hwy". It is likely that the Risque family were also Huguenots.
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THAT is correct; BEEN there! the Manakin ppl (aka "Indians) outside of Richmond, Va. WERE of the Monacan Nation; current "HQ" of Monacan Nation is Bear Mountain in Amherst County, VIRGINIA. Across the James River from Lynchburg; past history here is the Monacan Nation had TWO sites along the river; one on Lynchburg side (Riverfront), & on the bluffs, high on the ridge of Amherst County, above "Monacan Park II); been to "HQ" (Bear Mountain) numerous times... I am of "the Blood".
 

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The Enigmatist said:
I personally believe the Beale Papers are easily proven to be a fiction- so I'm not worried about the origins of Beale per se. But the surname is English with likely an Old French root- "Beale" - from - "Beal" - from- "Bel" (or belle in modern French- meaning beautiful).
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LOL! Rush would say about the Beale Treasure... "It's a BEAUTIFUL THING!".
 

"Beale" = as a French name, the name means - "Handsome/Beautiful".

"and I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen. Altogether, he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men....."

There is no Thomas J. Beale. Some "Thomas Beale" for sure, but no "J". Also, the name Thomas "Jefferson" Beale came from the Hart's, not the story, and they provide no source for "Jefferson" in establishing that name.

And "Risque" is of French origin. As is "connexion" which is the very thing the unknown author has asked readers to make.
 

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bigscoop said:
"Beale" = as a French name, the name means - "Handsome/Beautiful".

"and I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen. Altogether, he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men....."

There is no Thomas J. Beale. Some "Thomas Beale" for sure, but no "J". Also, the name Thomas "Jefferson" Beale came from the Hart's, not the story, and they provide no source for "Jefferson" in establishing that name.

And "Risque" is of French origin. As is "connexion" which is the very thing the unknown author has asked readers to make.
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AND...?
 

bigscoop said:
"Beale" = as a French name, the name means - "Handsome/Beautiful".

"and I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen. Altogether, he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men....."

There is no Thomas J. Beale. Some "Thomas Beale" for sure, but no "J". Also, the name Thomas "Jefferson" Beale came from the Hart's, not the story, and they provide no source for "Jefferson" in establishing that name.

And "Risque" is of French origin. As is "connexion" which is the very thing the unknown author has asked readers to make.
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As a "patch-work" COVER-STORY, with MANY writers (Inner Circle/"Family of FRIENDS"; RM)... THAT was PROBABLY written by Margaret Anthony Cabell, who died in 1882. Wrote her "Sketches" Book in 1858... BIG section on Robert MORRISS & wife. Compare THAT section with the one in BEALE PAPERS... LOL!
 

ALL IN THE FAMILY/Part 3-THE NEW MEXICO CONNECTION

Rebel - KGC said:
... His grandfather's brother was an explorer out west; PROBABLY a GREATER "influence"... John Pickrell Risque...
Gotta add PIKE expedition, Lewis & Clark Expedition... ALL of 'em JB Ward & the Hutters boys (cousins) grew up on, and PROBABLY "play-acted" on grandpa JB Risque's Plantation/Farm, near New London, Va. "HUNTING HILL(s)"; JB Ward is BURIED there! :coffee2: Coffee...?
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John Pickrell Risque was a lawyer in Albuquerque,New Mexico,and while looking at gold and silver mining properties at Gold Gulch,Risque and his party were massacred by indians in 1882.
LIVELY ROOTS John Pickrell Risque [34969]
The Beale job pamphlet was published in 1885,3 years after this event.
The published work of Margaret Anthony Cabell appears to have provided the Morriss background included in the Beale story.
:coffee2: Strong Civil War chickory campfire coffee!
 

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It just goes to show you that, due to the era and many events & people, you can create any theory you like and you can find all sorts connections to run with. However, as will always be the case, regardless of theory, without that smoking gun they all mean nothing in the end. At this point it's going to take something along the lines of a written confession to establish much of anything...documented of course.

Not saying it's a hoax or simple dime novel, just saying that it's going to be next to impossible to really establish anything to the contrary.
 

I assume then that "Thomas Beale" has not been found in France.
 

ECS said:
John Pickrell Risque was a lawyer in Albuquerque,New Mexico,and while looking at gold and silver mining properties at Gold Gulch,Risque and his party were massacred by indians in 1882.
LIVELY ROOTS John Pickrell Risque [34969]
The Beale job pamphlet was published in 1885,3 years after this event.
The published work of Margaret Anthony Cabell appears to have provided the Morriss background included in the Beale story.
:coffee2: Strong Civil War chickory campfire coffee!
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You are CORRECT!
 

Old Silver said:
I assume then that "Thomas Beale" has not been found in France.
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Thomas Beale is different then Thomas J. Beale, more then one "Thomas Beale" has been found while no "Thomas J. Beale" has been found, and certainly no "Thomas Jefferson Beale". And no, to my knowledge no such Beale has been found in France either.

The point is, if he ever did exist, then "he likely never existed" by that real namesake.
 

My reasoning for wondering about George L Hart is specifically his connection to Masonry. As many here know I'm confident the Papers are Masonic in origin but I'm wondering if in fact Hart knew this as well....not that he was involved with their creation (he was only 10 yrs old when it was published), but perhaps upon reading it he saw the Masonic elements of the story that would not be so obvious to non-Masons and felt it his role to breathe new life into what was at the time was a completely forgotten story; updating the public as to the location of Buford's, the connection of Ward etc...saying a lot while not saying anything at all.... The fact is he got a ton of things wrong. As mentioned by so many; there is nothing in the Papers saying the "J" in Beale's name stood for "Jefferson", nor was the Planters Hotel in St. Louis in existence in 1822- so he could not have written the ciphers from there. Why he would add that is plainly odd. The entire seance is also odd.


Reb- So, George Sr. was a 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason affiliated with the Roanoke Lodge or a member of a DC Lodge? And what was his occupation?
 

Speaking of the seance...the 18 yr old individual hypnotized by Clayton Hart provides a location that the three traveled to and dug at...with Clayton using dynamite later on to blow up a tree under which the boy said the treasure was located. If I follow the clues provided by Hart, it appears they went towards the Peaks of Otter- which is basically NE of Montvale...following Goose Creek Road but then got out on foot and followed the creek up-slope....slowly moving to the NW so that when they got to the top they were at a pass which would lead them to Buchanan over the Blue Ridge. I would take that to mean they were at Bearwallow Gap (highway 43) at what is now the Blue Ridge Parkway. Does that jive with everyone? Its either that gap or Bobblets Gap.
 

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