Wagoner's Lost Ledge

[SPARTANOC]

Im not trying to steer this to the Waltz story. My apologies. I was looking into Whiskey Springs in relation to the Wagoner, and just happened to notice (its a few pages away in the Swanson book) this spot on her map in the same general area.
After this experience, treasure maps dont mean much to me anymore, however, they are a necessary evil and need to be discussed in this TH world.
So, the Julia map, the Wagoner bs map AND the Mexican girl story all lead to this area, or at least there were strange symbols on the Julia map in this area.
Those are the distractions, published maps, (LOOK HERE!!) imo....... but that needs to be fleshed out.
Im not changing the theme of the thread. It's just that there are multiple stories leading to this area and imo should be discussed all w/i the same context.

Absolutely!!

At this point - act of elimination of said areas that just don't "fit" into reality. Good job.

My apologies for jumping in with the whole Waltz map. I too should say on course - but I get the side note of things...

 

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[cuzimloony]

Absolutely!!

At this point - act of elimination of said areas that just don't "fit" into reality. Good job.

My apologies for jumping in with the whole Waltz map. I too should say on course - but I get the side note of things...

Oh you're good man! No apology necessary. I think those maps SHOULD be discussed here. They do point to the same place as the BS Wagoner map, more or less, and Julia's strange symbol so...im actually HOPING to discuss them

 

[cuzimloony]

The bigger BS I read in my life. I'm sure your eyes are brown. You can go everywhere you want, because i don't give a s&it, I'm envy only because you have a GOpro and I haven't one, to record all the hounds out there, when my doctors gime their assent to get out my house. Round and round like a hound (quatro). You have to learn to accept answers to your provocations, lil city boy.

Blonde hair and blue eyes. You know, like the ancient Greek Gods.
Grew up in the mountains. Poconos to be exact. My parents now live in NC, in the Appalachian Mountains and Im very familiar there too.
Man, you are just wrong on so many levels........lol

 

[SPARTANOC]

Blonde hair and blue eyes. You know, like the ancient Greek Gods.
Grew up in the mountains. Poconos to be exact. My parents now live in NC, in the Appalachian Mountains and Im very familiar there too.
Man, you are just wrong on so many levels........lol

That sounds like a Country boy to me...or at least the heart of one.....

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I'm not sure THAT map (Julia's) is even a legit map. From what I've been told - that's a bogus one and leads to nothing....

....maybe PotBelly Jim can elaborate?

-SpartanOC

Personally, I think all the maps are fake...so....

But back to Tom's map in "A Ride Through Time": He's added quite a bit to what's become known as the "Julia Thomas Map" (there's no evidence that these maps originated with her). She did sell maps...and so did everyone else who wanted a quick $20 back in the day...of course each one was the only one that came from Julia herself, lol.

Tom added some Easter Eggs to that map. You can see Circlestone, but it's over on the wrong side. The 10 and double circle came out of the heart cavity of the Stone Maps.

I think he was just having some fun with it.

 

[cuzimloony]

Personally, I think all the maps are fake...so....

But back to Tom's map in "A Ride Through Time": He's added quite a bit to what's become known as the "Julia Thomas Map" (there's no evidence that these maps originated with her). She did sell maps...and so did everyone else who wanted a quick $20 back in the day...of course each one was the only one that came from Julia herself, lol.

Tom added some Easter Eggs to that map. You can see Circlestone, but it's over on the wrong side. The 10 and double circle came out of the heart cavity of the Stone Maps.

I think he was just having some fun with it.

.......always coming through.
Thank you sir!

 

[PotBelly Jim]

.......always coming through.
Thank you sir!

You're welcome. If you guys have a copy of Tom's map book, he has a version of the "Julia Thomas Map" in there that is a fairly accurate copy of a Julia Thomas map that was floating around the valley in the 1940's. They're also all posted in the maps section of Feldman's old forum.

 

[markmar]

Blonde hair and blue eyes. You know, like the ancient Greek Gods.
Grew up in the mountains. Poconos to be exact. My parents now live in NC, in the Appalachian Mountains and Im very familiar there too.
Man, you are just wrong on so many levels........lol

Ha, I believe you have confused the Scandinavian Gods with the Greek.
I grew up in the Carpathian Mountains in Transylvania, landscapes you will never imagine. I was just a little kid when I ate berries and blackberries, standing on bears footprints. I have climbed at the top of 60 ft fir trees and drank water from the bark of beech trees when was raining. So whatever you will tell me about forests and wild life, would be little.

 

[cuzimloony]

Hesiod:

Homer:

There are a lot more I don't have in front of me, but you can see them online anyway.
The elites always look the same.

https://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyle/half-of-european-men-share-king-tuts-dna-idUSTRE7704PB/

 

[SPARTANOC]

Personally, I think all the maps are fake...so....

But back to Tom's map in "A Ride Through Time": He's added quite a bit to what's become known as the "Julia Thomas Map" (there's no evidence that these maps originated with her). She did sell maps...and so did everyone else who wanted a quick $20 back in the day...of course each one was the only one that came from Julia herself, lol.

Tom added some Easter Eggs to that map. You can see Circlestone, but it's over on the wrong side. The 10 and double circle came out of the heart cavity of the Stone Maps.

I think he was just having some fun with it.

Jim

So, in your most expertise opinion - what do you think about the Waltz map. Is it legit?

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Hello All: For Henry H. Bruderlin see the Arizona Times, Phoenix Arizona July 6, 1949 P.1, col 2-3, and Arizona Times, Phoenix Arizona July 7, 1949 P.1, and July 8, 1949, P.1, Col 1-3, and July 9, 1949, P. 1, Col. 2-4, and July 11, 1949, P. 1, col. 1-3 and finally, July 12, 1949, P. 1. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Don't ask me how I know, but if we can find the above newspaper articles I think this mystery will be nipped in the bud, street names and all.
I cannot verify that the Arizona Times was even a newspaper out of Phoenix in 1949. I can't find it. I see it before that date as an african-american centered paper, then after that date as a college campus paper, but no 1949 Arizona Times. If we can find the articles referenced above, I think a lot of light will be shed on this Wagoner story.....

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Jim

So, in your most expertise opinion - what do you think about the Waltz map. Is it legit?

-SpartanOC

Spartan,
I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea...I'm not an expert on these treasure maps at all. I've looked them over from time to time, that's about it.

So I have no idea what the provenance of these maps are. If I had to bet actual money, I'd bet every one of them were made to make the owner money, or to leverage info out of someone. I'm biased against them, in general, because I saw some pretty stupid things happen over such maps. Lots of money wasted, people threatened, etc.

All the same, if people are taking these maps and searching the mountains, they might find something unrelated to the map...So using them might turn out to be a good thing, you never know.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Don't ask me how I know, but if we can find the above newspaper articles I think this mystery will be nipped in the bud, street names and all.
I cannot verify that the Arizona Times was even a newspaper out of Phoenix in 1949. I can't find it. I see it before that date as an african-american centered paper, then after that date as a college campus paper, but no 1949 Arizona Times. If we can find the articles referenced above, I think a lot of light will be shed on this Wagoner story.....

Greg has the articles...I have them also...he has more than I do...ask him about it when you go over there. You may find something we've all missed up until now.

I'm mulling over telling the story as I heard it...I suspect it's similar to the one Tom heard, i.e. from different people, but the same original source.

 

[cuzimloony]

Greg has the articles...I have them also...he has more than I do...ask him about it when you go over there. You may find something we've all missed up until now.

I'm mulling over telling the story as I heard it...I suspect it's similar to the one Tom heard, i.e. from different people, but the same original source.

I have some documents from Greg's that summarize those, along with an interview with Clay Worst, written by Greg. But, they MAY have been given to me in confidence, I don't remember, so to play it safe that's all I'll say.
Greg, however, is saying at least as much as telling us to find those articles.....I only have his synopsis.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

What you have there is not secret...it's for an article that Greg published in the Superstition Mountain Journal a long time ago. He would have all the background info he used to write the file at his house. I have the articles he referenced, but I don't have any of the info from his interviews with Clay...Greg has that.

PS: I'll email you the article Greg wrote so you can compare it to what you have...it's the same title so I'm sure it's Greg's rough draft. PM me an email address for you. I can't post the article here.

 

[cuzimloony]

What you have there is not secret...it's for an article that Greg published in the Superstition Mountain Journal a long time ago. He would have all the background info he used to write the file at his house. I have the articles he referenced, but I don't have any of the info from his interviews with Clay...Greg has that.

Whew. Thank you for that. Since it MAY have been given to me in confidence however, and it seems may contain info from an interview that may/may not exist and Gerg's personal thoughts (lots of scribbling), Ill refrain from discussing further until I see that the info is in fact, public.
Thank you though. Do the articles shed light on the Wagoner?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Whew. Thank you for that. Since it MAY have been given to me in confidence however, and it seems may contain info from an interview that may/may not exist and Gerg's personal thoughts (lots of scribbling), Ill refrain from discussing further until I see that the info is in fact, public.
Thank you though. Do the articles shed light on the Wagoner?

Yes, I don't think it is ever good to post things that are rough drafts. I have the finished article he wrote, but can't post it here because it's copyrighted. If you PM me an email address I can send you what I have.

 

[cuzimloony]

Yes, I don't think it is ever good to post things that are rough drafts. I have the finished article he wrote, but can't post it here because it's copyrighted. If you PM me an email address I can send you what I have.

Done. Thank you.

 

[cuzimloony]

Greg has the articles...I have them also...he has more than I do...ask him about it when you go over there. You may find something we've all missed up until now.

I'm mulling over telling the story as I heard it...I suspect it's similar to the one Tom heard, i.e. from different people, but the same original source.

Just to be sure, the articles mentioned aren't articles written by Greg, they are written by a Mr. Gene McKinney.
So.....the Arizona Times DID exist then. I wonder why its hard for me to pull them up on the interwebs......
I also suspect that the story I have here is similar to what you heard.
Thank you for the info Jim. I got your email and I cannot wait to read it tonight laying in bed. Ive only seen the pics and from them, I can tell Im in for a wild ride........

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Watching the Chargers/Ravens game lol. Quick posts. Greg included McKinneys articles within his article.

The story I heard was quite a bit different from the Barry Storm version. I've never written it down. One of my prospecting mentors was an old Mormon guy who told me the "real" Wagoner story. I suspect Tom got a similar story. The "Mormon version". Everyone involved was Mormon. Including Hebe MacDonald. They held back some info as far as I can tell.