Wagoner's Lost Ledge

[SPARTANOC]

One point: I did NOT make it all the way to Trap Spring, so there is some room for doubt in what Im going to say, but....from the point I DID get to (the purple track here: View attachment 2179983
At no point can you see Miners Needle (it isnt that tall to be seen from the valley floor), or Weavers Needle.
View attachment 2179982
View attachment 2179981
I couldn't see Weavers Needle until I was almost AT Miners Needle, leaving the Whisky Spring valley headed south.
If the Wagoner were north of Trap Spring, maybe you could see both, Im not sure, but then that would render the Kollenborn and Storm maps as worthless......
....but this is all neither here nor there right?
Hand cobbed ore by the side of the road............

Cuzimloony

Read what I just wrote out for PotBelly Jim. Your blue circle is referrencing just what I stated a few minutes ago. I believe the correct area after reading what Jim posted, would be more Northern - in the Lower La Barge Box Canyon, instead of the Upper La Barge Canyon (near Whiskey springs).

Your thoughts on this?

-SpartanOC

 

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[markmar]

Cuzimloony

Read what I just wrote out for PotBelly Jim. Your blue circle is referrencing just what I stated a few minutes ago. I believe the correct area after reading what Jim posted, would be more Northern - in the Lower La Barge Box Canyon, instead of the Upper La Barge Canyon (near Whiskey springs).

Your thoughts on this?

-SpartanOC

To me all this seems a small conspiracy to keep people afar from Miner's Needle area. If few smart guys who came out of the blue lately, believe can outsmart the old mountain jackals, then good luck to them. Maybe they would find out in this process, from where the goldfish is farting.

 

[SPARTANOC]

To me all this seems a small conspiracy to keep people afar from Miner's Needle area. If few smart guys who came out of the blue lately, believe can outsmart the old mountain jackals, then good luck to them. Maybe they would find out in this process, from where the goldfish is farting.

Well to me, those old Mountain "jackals", still seem to be struggling in discovering anything at this point when it comes to the Wagoner's story.

It's not a conspiracy Markmar - it's thinking outside the box - because the "old box" appears to be worn-out. I believe Cuzimloony is just trying to approach things differently - maybe to get a better "view" of this very old legend/story and actually discover what's been said to be out there. Maybe its just a BS story all along - but one will never come to a conclusion without covering all the possibilities. I applaud Cuzimloony's efforts - you should maybe do the same. Remember, we all should support a good outcome for those who are willing to get out there.

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Cuzimloony

Read what I just wrote out for PotBelly Jim. Your blue circle is referrencing just what I stated a few minutes ago. I believe the correct area after reading what Jim posted, would be more Northern - in the Lower La Barge Box Canyon, instead of the Upper La Barge Canyon (near Whiskey springs).

Your thoughts on this?

-SpartanOC

I don't think a sick man from the east coast is hiking there either, alone with only a canteen. I went through 6 salt tabs and still had a cramp coming out. I wonder how many salt tabs the Wagoner had handy..... Wasn't this place loaded with Apache back then too? BUT..... I am already planning a Red Tanks/LaBarge canyon hike to see how THAT part of the story shakes out. (I'm trying to camp around Brad's place...)
I think if there were a place where you could see Miners and Weavers, it would have to be further north, but from Trap Spring (almost) there is no chance what-so-ever of seeing Miners Needle. It's not high enough.

 

[cuzimloony]

To me all this seems a small conspiracy to keep people afar from Miner's Needle area. If few smart guys who came out of the blue lately, believe can outsmart the old mountain jackals, then good luck to them. Maybe they would find out in this process, from where the goldfish is farting.

I am highly doubting the Wagoners and Kollenborns story. Not even a shred of truth, imo, if we are talking about this location. I think this story takes place near Hewitt's Ranch, where the stage actually dropped people off, and where old men can actually walk. (Did you read the part where the Wagoner got dropped off south of the Sups, Florence Junction if I remember correctly, then walked to Goldfield THROUGH the Sups?? Nonsense) I am not alone in this either....... That said, I saw some things out there that make me think the Spanish markers pointing to Peralta mines might be true. There WERE strange rock formations that looked out of place, alignments, etc... You'll see a lot of that in the video. However..... I have a TON of video from around Miner's Needle that didn't make the cut in the first video (I tried to keep the video in and around Whiskey Spring and it's still almost an hour). If there is a positive reaction, I am not opposed to making a Miner's Needle video to show you how it is absolutely insane to believe an 81 year old is traversing it........... 4K too. Well, that's not true. I used a super wide fish lens to get more in the shot, which limits me to 2.7K, but it should be very easy to see......
That said..... I may just be a pansy. You guys may look at the hike and come to the conclusion that the Wagoner COULD have done this, and that won't hurt my feelings at all. I'm looking for honesty so we can get to the bottom of this ledge........LITERALLY!

 

[cuzimloony]

I can't believe I created a youtube channel for this thread. lol. Enjoy fellas!

Edit: This post has been edited to contain a higher definition video.
Edit: ditto, with an even higher definition video.

 

[cuzimloony]

As I watch the video on youtube, I am learning things. Just because I recorded in 2.7K, doesn't mean that youtube will display it as such.... So, I'll keep this video up so you can begin to play and research, BUT, expect a higher quality version in a day or two. I am currently exporting it in a higher quality, but, it's like 200G so...... gonna be a while.
Bear with me.... I've never had a youtube channel and Ive never even thought about creating videos so... Im learning.

 

[SPARTANOC]

As I watch the video on youtube, I am learning things. Just because I recorded in 2.7K, doesn't mean that youtube will display it as such.... So, I'll keep this video up so you can begin to play and research, BUT, expect a higher quality version in a day or two. I am currently exporting it in a higher quality, but, it's like 200G so...... gonna be a while.
Bear with me.... I've never had a youtube channel and Ive never even thought about creating videos so... Im learning.

I'm in the middle of said video right now - and it's awesome. Keep it up. Maybe we can get this darn legend solved for once....

On a side note: As you are going out of Whiskey Springs, you're seen passing a couple of large trees (as you talk about the static sedentary water) and it seems that's the only trees that are seen for miles. Didn't the article that PotBelly Jim posted - talk about trees that were planted near the ledge that was found? That particular area you passed might be an interesting area to fully investigate. Just a thought.

Love the video, and its quality is perfect in my opinion.

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

I'm in the middle of said video right now - and it's awesome. Keep it up. Maybe we can get this darn legend solved for once....

On a side note: As you are going out of Whiskey Springs, you're seen passing a couple of large trees (as you talk about the static sedentary water) and it seems that's the only trees that are seen for miles. Didn't the article that PotBelly Jim posted - talk about trees that were planted near the ledge that was found? That particular area you passed might be an interesting area to fully investigate. Just a thought.

Love the video, and its quality is perfect in my opinion.

-SpartanOC

Thank you!! ...and you are correct sir. Planted in a circle I think.......... That said, go back and look at the video link above. It has been updated with the higher def version.

 

[cuzimloony]

Jeez..... the higher def version looks bad too. Maybe I need a new gopro.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Jeez..... the higher def version looks bad too. Maybe I need a new gopro.

Nah, I think you're good. The quality is way better than many of the videos I've seen on Youtube.

That being said, Christmas IS coming and a new GoPro always makes a good gift.

 

[cuzimloony]

Nah, I think you're good. The quality is way better than many of the videos I've seen on Youtube.

That being said, Christmas IS coming and a new GoPro always makes a good gift.

I think I know. iMovie (comes with the computer) only exports 1080P. LOW BUDGET FELLAS!
lol
Looks like I need to research editing programs if I want to make this better......
It looks so good in iMovie! Lol

 

[Geoffnotjeff]

Fantastic video, well done and thank you for sharing.

 

[cuzimloony]

Fantastic video, well done and thank you for sharing.

Thanks man. Alright fellas, I spent all night trying to get this fixed. It really bothered me that I talked-up this "Im going to record it and it'll be great," just to have iMovie export at 1080P. If this doesn't work, I need to do some real reading and I wouldn't expect anything over night I replaced the link above, but I'll put it here too so you don't have to scroll up so much.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

To me all this seems a small conspiracy to keep people afar from Miner's Needle area.

Marius, I would say that the only conspiracy here is that Barry Storm consistently misdirected people. After all these years I'm still convinced that John G. Climenson changed his name to Barry Storm so his initials would be B.S.

That Storm could be a bull$hit artist is well-known and demonstrated. I don't hold it against him: Who in their right mind would write a book, sending the masses right to a treasure that the author was actually looking for?

If one believes that these old legends are going to lead to a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, all I can say is get in line...join the masses of the excited TH'ers that run off into the desert with their dog-eared treasure book and associated maps. The excitement eventually wears off...some realize they've been had, while a few never give up their belief in their "bible". To each his own.

But there are also those that try to find the wheat in all the chaff. No harm in that either.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

One subject I've often found useful is to study the origins and content of the whole body of material regarding treasure in/around the Supes. Not that I think it will lead to any treasure, but only to try and understand the vast amount of paper, ink and bytes that have been generated over the years. I think this area has got to be the most written about "treasure" area in modern times. Don't believe me, just go over to Greg's.

I've often wondered about the Lost Wagoner, and why it wasn't written about before BS showed up. Storm shows up in AZ, writes a book about the LDM in a year or two, files some claims, tramps up and down La Barge and Black Top, goes to war, writes another book...Two books generated in about 5 years of actual experience in the Supes (subtracting his war years). Countless articles were also generated, mostly just rehashing the same subjects from his books.

Jim Bark, who was a contemporary of Waltz and most of the people he wrote about, had been there for decades and knew just about every treasure story there was...the Bark notes are strangely silent re: Wagoner. This is out of character, because Bark included just about any story he'd ever heard that might be possibly connected to his belief in the LDM.

The same is true of other "local" people who should've known about this story. Mitchell, Lovelace, Rose...not one peep about "Wagoner's Lost Ledge".

Then one has to take into account the huge amount of local newspaper stories on "lost treasure". I've spent many years reading such papers, page by page. There is scant reference to the story, and that is only after Thunder God's Gold came out.

Food for thought.

 

[cuzimloony]

One subject I've often found useful is to study the origins and content of the whole body of material regarding treasure in/around the Supes. Not that I think it will lead to any treasure, but only to try and understand the vast amount of paper, ink and bytes that have been generated over the years. I think this area has got to be the most written about "treasure" area in modern times. Don't believe me, just go over to Greg's.

I've often wondered about the Lost Wagoner, and why it wasn't written about before BS showed up. Storm shows up in AZ, writes a book about the LDM in a year or two, files some claims, tramps up and down La Barge and Black Top, goes to war, writes another book...Two books generated in about 5 years of actual experience in the Supes (subtracting his war years). Countless articles were also generated, mostly just rehashing the same subjects from his books.

Jim Bark, who was a contemporary of Waltz and most of the people he wrote about, had been there for decades and knew just about every treasure story there was...the Bark notes are strangely silent re: Wagoner. This is out of character, because Bark included just about any story he'd ever heard that might be possibly connected to his belief in the LDM.

The same is true of other "local" people who should've known about this story. Mitchell, Lovelace, Rose...not one peep about "Wagoner's Lost Ledge".

Then one has to take into account the huge amount of local newspaper stories on "lost treasure". I've spent many years reading such papers, page by page. There is scant reference to the story, and that is only after Thunder God's Gold came out.

Food for thought.

I don't want to go into detail here, not for 'secretive' reasons, but out of respect for mutual friends, but I have a very very good idea where Tom himself was searching for this "ledge." It is no where near where Tom wrote about in his lost ledge story........
Just saying.........
Side note: That also means, Tom never found the "ledge" either, so how can I take his map seriously.....? (Here's a map I made to something I never found!)
That said, Ill still hike where his maps say for "research" purposes. It's fun! ....it keeps me alive, helps my breathing......I am from the east coast originally, after all.......

 

[cuzimloony]

"Not that I think it will lead to any treasure, but only to try and understand the vast amount of paper, ink and bytes that have been generated over the years. I think this area has got to be the most written about "treasure" area in modern times."

Look here, not there, seemingly organized and funded in a major way, with politicians, authors, newspapers, etc on the take......wink wink. How many stories kept us focused on the main Sups area when the trains and mining companies are south........ (these stories started during the civil war time period after all, not a coincidence) didn't Tom Kollenborn say, somewhere, there wasn't even evidence for the Peralta's other than heresay, rumors and legends...?
Who and why would someone make all that up? To distract from what...........?
And before you say that's nonsense, I'll just point you to the collaboration between major corporations, politicians and the media today when they don't want you to notice something.
Same ol' same ol'.......

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Thanks man. Alright fellas, I spent all night trying to get this fixed. It really bothered me that I talked-up this "Im going to record it and it'll be great," just to have iMovie export at 1080P. If this doesn't work, I need to do some real reading and I wouldn't expect anything over night I replaced the link above, but I'll put it here too so you don't have to scroll up so much.

Great job, loved the video. The music was good too!

 

[cuzimloony]

Great job, loved the video. The music was good too!

Thank you! I learned a lot this go-through. GoPro Hero 9 only records 2.7K with fisheye. W/o fisheye it's 4K. A hiker (not a prospector) isn't doing much "off trail" in this area, etc... Lessons learned. There are others..... I'll get better . .....about the music, youtube FREE music is limited, but at least their country/bluegrass sounds good Thank you again. I gearing up for the next one.