Wagoner's Lost Ledge

[cuzimloony]

I too am interested in this story. I first learned about it from Frank A. We chatted about it in his yellow vehicle while looking for some other thing he had on his mind. I was always perplexed by this part (and forgive me if I am confusing stories here....the sups are full of them): An old man with "severe respiratory illness" was able to hike in and around the superstitions, in and out, over and over, covering huge distances by superstition hiking standards, doing what modern day super-hikers plan, train for and have a hard time handling. This was always the stumbling block for me in pursuing this any further. That little detail reveals a lot.....at least I think it does. I understand the "they don't make 'em like they used to," but I don't think an old man w/ severe respiratory illness at any point in time compares to any modern day hiker, even if modern day hikers are weaker than olden day hikers. Man I hope that made sense......lol On another note: I'll be heading to hieroglyphics trail this weekend. I want to see this spiral-staircase for myself to see if it's a bunch of hog-wash.....

 

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[SPARTANOC]

I too am interested in this story. I first learned about it from Frank A. We chatted about it in his yellow vehicle while looking for some other thing he had on his mind. I was always perplexed by this part (and forgive me if I am confusing stories here....the sups are full of them): An old man with "severe respiratory illness" was able to hike in and around the superstitions, in and out, over and over, covering huge distances by superstition hiking standards, doing what modern day super-hikers plan, train for and have a hard time handling. This was always the stumbling block for me in pursuing this any further. That little detail reveals a lot.....at least I think it does. I understand the "they don't make 'em like they used to," but I don't think an old man w/ severe respiratory illness at any point in time compares to any modern day hiker, even if modern day hikers are weaker than olden day hikers. Man I hope that made sense......lol On another note: I'll be heading to hieroglyphics trail this weekend. I want to see this spiral-staircase for myself to see if it's a bunch of hog-wash.....

Cuzimloony

That Spiral-staircase pit is real. I believe Wayne Tuttle finally tried getting down in it - only to find it end at about 15 feet or so. There is no tunnel running down in it - so it has perplexed many as to WHY it was dug out in the first place. Nothing about it makes any sense. It is cool though to find, if out there just for a hike.

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Cuzimloony

That Spiral-staircase pit is real. I believe Wayne Tuttle finally tried getting down in it - only to find it end at about 15 feet or so. There is no tunnel running down in it - so it has perplexed many as to WHY it was dug out in the first place. Nothing about it makes any sense. It is cool though to find, if out there just for a hike.

-SpartanOC

Yeah I've seen those videos. I'm aware there is a hole there....... I just want to camp out there a night or two, to see for myself if the little people come out of it .......

 

[cuzimloony]

Here's an interesting anomaly south of Whiskey Spring and near black basalt outcroppings. GE images are shown looking north and southwest (overhead view). Could these be low, man-made walls? Did Wagoner construct a crude, rock shelter to protect himself from the wind and critters? Is his golden ledge near the spring, where he might have loitered, took a close look at his surroundings, and discovered the ledge?

Notice that black basalt outcroppings are abundant on the west side of the canyon, while the east side lacks such outcroppings.

View attachment 2054825

View attachment 2054826

I realize I am very late to this story and still have some reading to do before catching up, but... I got to this part and have a bit of insight. I very much apologize if this was covered in the parts I haven't read yet. I have spent a lot of time hiking and jeeping in and around the Hewitt Canyon and in that area specifically there are walls galore. Man made stacked stones, no mortar or anything, just stacked stones. I've seen walls as long as 100 yards or so, in the middle of nowhere. I asked a local TH'er about it and the answer I got was "Cowboys doing cowboy things." This led me to believe that there may be land boundaries, grazing boundaries, and cowboy boundaries out there and yes, there are absolutely man made walls in the middle of nowhere. If I can find those pics, I'll post them. It is an odd sight, walls connected to nothing.

 

[cuzimloony]

Someone in good shape can walk in a hour at least 2 miles.
Spanish measurement for a legua ( one hour walk ) in their treasure maps, is at 2,7 miles. Now, for a common hiker, depends of the difficulty of the terrain but the distance remains at least 2 miles ( for the Superstitions ).

I can get to these areas. I'm a hiker and a jeeper, used to the trail and in good shape. I live near Queen Creek, AZ. Very close the trailheads I'd need to hit up. I'm down to head to these spots and get pics/vid of the area, boots on the ground. Which spot should I go to first? I can start next weekend. (This weekend is the Hieroglyphics Trail with the family...next weekend I can do the man hiking). If I don't hear from anyone, I'll just pick one and go and possibly upload some video or pics at some point.....but it would be more fun if this were a collaborative effort

 

[SPARTANOC]

I can get to these areas. I'm a hiker and a jeeper, used to the trail and in good shape. I live near Queen Creek, AZ. Very close the trailheads I'd need to hit up. I'm down to head to these spots and get pics/vid of the area, boots on the ground. Which spot should I go to first? I can start next weekend. (This weekend is the Hieroglyphics Trail with the family...next weekend I can do the man hiking). If I don't hear from anyone, I'll just pick one and go and possibly upload some video or pics at some point.....but it would be more fun if this were a collaborative effort

Since you're close, here's a good area to start: Hewitt Canyon - 33.3644325 -111.2040254

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Since you're close, here's a good area to start: Hewitt Canyon - 33.3644325 -111.2040254

-SpartanOC

I've been there before, albeit, jeeping so I just drove by. I did collect 2 waypoints with pictures though. So for now, I can show you what it looks like entering and leaving that stretch of Hewlitt Canyon Rd. next to Byous Butte. Looks like I took these pics 4 years ago so, it may look a bit different now... This is an easy one because you can just drive to it. The pic with more blue sky is entering the canyon, from the south looking north at the butte. The pic with more clouds is leaving it on a bend in the road. (It looks like they might be out of order below). These are from my jeep so, it is what it is, but you can get a good idea of what it's like. The bottom pic is some of what I recorded that day with the red pointers being the spots where those pics were taken w/i GPS margin of error.

 

[markmar]

I can get to these areas. I'm a hiker and a jeeper, used to the trail and in good shape. I live near Queen Creek, AZ. Very close the trailheads I'd need to hit up. I'm down to head to these spots and get pics/vid of the area, boots on the ground. Which spot should I go to first? I can start next weekend. (This weekend is the Hieroglyphics Trail with the family...next weekend I can do the man hiking). If I don't hear from anyone, I'll just pick one and go and possibly upload some video or pics at some point.....but it would be more fun if this were a collaborative effort

Barry Storm has never been at the site, but despite this , he wrote the best clues on the Wagoner's gold story yet, always IMHO.
Like I wrote in my previous post in this thread, someone has to be at the site of Whiskey Spring in regards to understand the clues. Take with you at the site a copy of the Barry's text which describes what Wagoner did after he woke up at the spring, and Wagoner's map I have posted in this thread ( the same method was used by Ruth while searching for the LDM but he didn't has the chance to finish the research ).
Stay there and read every single word written in the text carefully, looking to the skyline in the directions given in the clues, and I'm sure, soon, you will realize what is the image and the meaning that the other people have missed, what is the X on the map and where that curved line ends up. There is the Wagoner's lost ledge, and if you are brave enough, follow Wagoner's route in regards to find it, and if you are not, don't bother because there are another alternatives to get it ( riddle at the site ).

 

[cuzimloony]

Here is a view I didn't see in the thread. Whiskey Spring is center bottom and you are looking west. The golden colored mountain peak symbols are the areas that were mentioned in the thread as "areas of interest." The 2 farthest out are in a completely different canyon, which is accessed by the Lost Dutchman Trail 104. The closest one (in the shadow) is accessed via the Whiskey Spring trail. As you can see, from Whisky Spring itself, I do not think you can see either Miners (left) or Weavers (right) Needles, however, if that "hill" near Whiskey Spring is scalable, you surely can see them from the top. I'll let you know when I get there. I'm still in planning stages. Backpack is emptied and ready to pack, single-person tent is ready, mags are loaded....just waiting on some camp food to come in the mail. Once that food comes in, I'll figure out how to get to the trailhead and how to get picked up (motorcycle solo or have the wifey drop me off...) at Peralta. Ah, which brings me to..... I cannot take the route that Wagoner took. Modern day logistics. The easiest way for me will be Peralta Trailhead, passing south of the Miners Needle, and then over to Whiskey Springs. You can see a bit of my planned route in green. (The blue continues on to LaBarge Spring #2 in case I get thirsty and Whisky has no water.) Well, that's the plan so far..... this week or next. I'll keep ya posted....

 

[cuzimloony]

A USGS map from 1900 of the area. Interesting. That's all

 

[SPARTANOC]

View attachment 2177385
Here is a view I didn't see in the thread. Whiskey Spring is center bottom and you are looking west. The golden colored mountain peak symbols are the areas that were mentioned in the thread as "areas of interest." The 2 farthest out are in a completely different canyon, which is accessed by the Lost Dutchman Trail 104. The closest one (in the shadow) is accessed via the Whiskey Spring trail. As you can see, from Whisky Spring itself, I do not think you can see either Miners (left) or Weavers (right) Needles, however, if that "hill" near Whiskey Spring is scalable, you surely can see them from the top. I'll let you know when I get there. I'm still in planning stages. Backpack is emptied and ready to pack, single-person tent is ready, mags are loaded....just waiting on some camp food to come in the mail. Once that food comes in, I'll figure out how to get to the trailhead and how to get picked up (motorcycle solo or have the wifey drop me off...) at Peralta. Ah, which brings me to..... I cannot take the route that Wagoner took. Modern day logistics. The easiest way for me will be Peralta Trailhead, passing south of the Miners Needle, and then over to Whiskey Springs. You can see a bit of my planned route in green. (The blue continues on to LaBarge Spring #2 in case I get thirsty and Whisky has no water.) Well, that's the plan so far..... this week or next. I'll keep ya posted....

cuzimloony​

Excellent planning of your targeted area and your equipment. I'm sure I don't have to tell you, to plan on anything that you might encounter out there. My trip during Rendezvous was somewhat disastrous - as the heat index was off the chart, being at 108° and climbing by 2pm, at least for October. It looks as if the weather now is just right, but you just never know what's going to happen in them there Supes.

You're going to a good area to search. I've done some research for that area. There's a particular area back there in Whiskey Springs that has been worked. If it works out - head to: 33.4322791 -111.3074208. Here there are some things to check out and I believe there was some "work" done back in that area from past explorers.

I believe you're taking the right path - to getting in there to the correct area. Be safe and really, don't go alone. I get that you're locked and loaded, but its always a good habit to have a partner of sorts.

Stay well and we all look forward to your concluded endeavor.

Travel well
-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

cuzimloony​

Excellent planning of your targeted area and your equipment. I'm sure I don't have to tell you, to plan on anything that you might encounter out there. My trip during Rendezvous was somewhat disastrous - as the heat index was off the chart, being at 108° and climbing by 2pm, at least for October. It looks as if the weather now is just right, but you just never know what's going to happen in them there Supes.

You're going to a good area to search. I've done some research for that area. There's a particular area back there in Whiskey Springs that has been worked. If it works out - head to: 33.4322791 -111.3074208. Here there are some things to check out and I believe there was some "work" done back in that area from past explorers.

I believe you're taking the right path - to getting in there to the correct area. Be safe and really, don't go alone. I get that you're locked and loaded, but its always a good habit to have a partner of sorts.

Stay well and we all look forward to your concluded endeavor.

Travel well
-SpartanOC

I appreciate that, thank you very much for the tips and vote of confidence in the chosen route. I'll put your above mentioned marker on my map and man...I live close enough I can here a couple times a month and search real good.... I'll get to it eventually. It's going to be fun. It's a sixish mile hike in and I usually cover more than double that on a good hike. My only worry is Whisky Springs is sometimes dry, which means more hiking for water and less looking for stuff, but.... we'll see. I'll bring a lot of water anyway. At least the weather is nice.........it's nowhere near 108 now. When we fist moved to Scottsdale 5 years ago, literally on our first day here, it was 126.

I went to a couple of those Rendezvous myself, met most of the guys you'd want to meet, went out hunting with a few of them a few times, (even went to a gun show with Frank...) took a prospecting class with Woody... went to 3 or 4 prospecting club meetings, had a great time. Then, I had my second daughter..... So, I got sidetracked for a couple years. But I'm back at it now so, albeit a bit out of touch. But get ready for videos and pics of the target areas. I'll gladly share them with the group. It's more about the adventure for me, and contributing somehow to the search, and learning along the way, would just warm my pretty little heart , but finding gold would be...ideal.

I just watched Wayne Tuttle's story about the 6-foot, winged creature at Whiskey Springs....which is where I plan on camping.... lol I so hope that's just one of those stories people tell.....

 

[cuzimloony]

Above: If Wagoner woke up at Trap Canyon Spring, and he floated up and looked due south, this would be the (current day) view. Miners Needle looks almost due south to me.... I'm pretty sure you guys have figured out the right canyons to search (including the 2 areas of interest off to the right)....



Below: If you were at Trap Canyon Spring (bottom center just off screen, you can see the trail entering the canyon to the right), this gives you an idea of how high you'd need to climb in order to see the tip of miners needle.

 

[cuzimloony]

Unrelated to Wagoners Ledge, but mentioned in the thread, here is one of those cowboy walls in the middle of nowhere. You can find this in Millsite Canyon, in between Campsite and Rattlesnake Springs. I have actual pictures of this. I've hiked around it and it is quite steep. It is not an outcropping. These are stacked stones to form a wall, some of them would need to require multiple men to lift. Unfortunately, when moving from icloud to personal hard drives to one drive, some of these pics got misplaced. I'm still looking...
Edit: I forgot to mention that this wall is probably about 3.5 - 4 feet high....

 

[cuzimloony]

Another unrelated post, but as I go through my old pics, I found this. Im sure you all know of Bob Ward. Well, if you walk around his old cabin area off Peralta Road, you'll find a lot of marked cactuses (that actually now may have been destroyed by the park service to make a camping area....bastards) Now, whether or not Bob did these carvings is beyond my knowledge, BUT it is still a marked cactus. Story goes, the cross and the J signify they're both Jesuit cactuses on a treasure trail.
On to the Wagoners: Ive read a few stories on this website about possible areas to search on a couple different threads. My search area has widened so..... Ive got them marked. This may be more a scouting mission than a search, BUT Ill bring gopros and cameras and we can do more armchair searching with this till I go out again. Ill be going soon, but Im now preparing for a cold backpack trip now. So, Im pulling out the cold weather, goose down gear. Its been in the mid 30's here is the East Valley in the mornings. Ill be posting some of the trip in a week or two. Until then, enjoy these marked cactuses and the mine enterance they led to at Bob Wards place in the Sups.

 

[cuzimloony]

Bob Ward's brief thoughts on the Wagoner Map.

 

[cuzimloony]

cuzimloony​

Excellent planning of your targeted area and your equipment. I'm sure I don't have to tell you, to plan on anything that you might encounter out there. My trip during Rendezvous was somewhat disastrous - as the heat index was off the chart, being at 108° and climbing by 2pm, at least for October. It looks as if the weather now is just right, but you just never know what's going to happen in them there Supes.

You're going to a good area to search. I've done some research for that area. There's a particular area back there in Whiskey Springs that has been worked. If it works out - head to: 33.4322791 -111.3074208. Here there are some things to check out and I believe there was some "work" done back in that area from past explorers.

I believe you're taking the right path - to getting in there to the correct area. Be safe and really, don't go alone. I get that you're locked and loaded, but its always a good habit to have a partner of sorts.

Stay well and we all look forward to your concluded endeavor.

Travel well
-SpartanOC

Here is that area, as of yesterday at about noon, Nov 14, 2024. Pics and vids to come.....whenever the GoPro cloud speeds up and I can edit down 6 hours of video to an attention span length.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Here is that area, as of yesterday at about noon, Nov 14, 2024. Pics and vids to come.....whenever the GoPro cloud speeds up and I can edit down 6 hours of video to an attention span length.
View attachment 2179152

In that general vicinity, there's an spot where there are 2 large type rocks/boulders that you can walk through (North side/facing North) - there you should look around and see if you can locate "markers" of some sort. There might be some evidence of diggings there. If you got a metal detector with you - I'd do some scanning.

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

In that general vicinity, there's an spot where there are 2 large type rocks/boulders that you can walk through (North side/facing North) - there you should look around and see if you can locate "markers" of some sort. There might be some evidence of diggings there. If you got a metal detector with you - I'd do some scanning.

-SpartanOC

Tonto National Forest - Special Places

Tonto National Forest - Special Places

www.fs.usda.gov

Would you advise bringing a detector in there without a proper written and approved "plan?"

Seems though, and there are a number of reasons people other than prospectors would do this, that someone IS out there exploring around. I found their water stash hidden a little off trail in LaBarge Canyon headed towards Whisky Spring from Trap Canyon area.

As you can see from the height of the desert brush in this area. Going off trail is quite a challange. Especially for an old man with a suitcase full of rocks, who had to move out west due to breathing problems........just saying.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Tonto National Forest - Special Places

Tonto National Forest - Special Places

www.fs.usda.gov

Would you advise bringing a detector in there without a proper written and approved "plan?"

Seems though, and there are a number of reasons people other than prospectors would do this, that someone IS out there exploring around. I found their water stash hidden a little off trail in LaBarge Canyon headed towards Whisky Spring from Trap Canyon area. View attachment 2179154View attachment 2179155
As you can see from the height of the desert brush in this area. Going off trail is quite a challange. Especially for an old man with a suitcase full of rocks, who had to move out west due to breathing problems........just saying.

As long as you do not disturb the soil - a metal detector is Okay to use....so use it wisely. You can't dig per say - but uncovering (moving rocks about) isn't.
I believe with regards to that area, that you don't need a metal detector to find something to be honest. It can help, but not necessary.

-SpartanOC