Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

[gollum]

Alex,

Do you still have any contact with Norman Scott of Expeditions Unlimited?

There are a few questions he may have some important answers to.

Best-Mike

 

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[Loke]

Hmmm - the plot thickens ... now we have deGrazia and Villa/Holmdahl (I've gotta look up on that Holmdahl - that's a Norwegian name if I ever saw one!)
It would seem that finally - there are a lot of things that suddenly seem to fall together ...
Gents, I thank you for bringing all this up on the table. I'm not saying that it's all crystal clear, but I do believe the sandwich falling off the table will fall with the buttered side up!!

Per

 

[Loke]

ok - here's the first google attempt at Emil Holmdahl:

Born in Ft.Dodge, Iowa in 1883. Enlisted in the 61st Iowa Infantry and served in the Philippine Islands. After discharge, joined Lee Christmas in Honduras. Went to Mexico in 1909 and served in the Rurales under Emilio Kosterlitzky. Holmdahl changed allegiance to Madero after the fall of Juárez. Later, he joined Villa and then Obregon. Returned to the U.S. and worked as a taxi driver. In 1916, he was a guide with Pershing's Punitive expedition. Later served with the U.S. 16th Infantry in WWI. In 1926, while on a prospecting trip to Mexico, he was arrested for desecrating Villa's tomb. Friends arranged his release, and he returned to the U.S.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

My friend you will be fascinated by Holmdahl, the last of the breed of true Mercinaries. Once you start on his story, you will not put the story down. Incidentally in France he was a Captain and decorated for stopping a German break through.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Loke]

@Real de Tayopa,
How true that is - and if you haven't read it all allready (which you probably have!) - check this one out:
http://www.american-buddha.com/cia.soldierfortunetoc.htm

wow!!

 

[vintageic]

Posted by: Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
(Once you start on his story, you will not put the story down. )

right, right!



Looks like will have to start a "Villa/Holmdahl" Thread.

Very interesting,

Thanks.

Brian.

 

[Springfield]

@Real de Tayopa,
How true that is - and if you haven't read it all allready (which you probably have!) - check this one out:
http://www.american-buddha.com/cia.soldierfortunetoc.htm

wow!!

It's a good read. Shows what the life of a mercenary was 100 years ago. Your pals might very well be your enemies next month. Holmdahl was in the right place at the right time to be involved in all kinds of chicanery. There's persistent rumors in SW New Mexico about Villa's knowledge/involvement with bullion caches north of the border. The Columbus raid may have been payback for a betrayal having to do with a cache. But then I've also heard that the raid was in retribution against a Columbus merchant who sold the Villalistas bum ammo. It's an interesting time period that hasn't been all that well documented.

 

[cactusjumper]

Springfield,

Believe this is pretty close to what the books I have on Villa say about the Columbus raid:

http://web.nmsu.edu/~publhist/colhist.htm

I will double check when I get home this afternoon.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

When trying to find ties between Emil Holmdahl and Mexican treasure, it's a good idea to keep the man's history in mind.

In 1910, Emil was given the job of guarding gold bullion and coins for the Mexican railroad. It was a prime target for "bandits". After switching sides, as he was wont to do, one of the adventures he commanded, was a raid on the on the Buena Noche mine, ostensibly for dynamite to make bombs for the war.......What else might he have lifted?

Holmdahl spent many years in Mexico looking for buried gold and prospecting for minerals. I believe he may have been involved in some oil exploration as well. In addition to that, he participated in many schemes and projects in Mexico and the US.

Money and gold were a constant part of his life.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Springfield]

When trying to find ties between Emil Holmdahl and Mexican treasure, it's a good idea to keep the man's history in mind.

In 1910, Emil was given the job of guarding gold bullion and coins for the Mexican railroad. It was a prime target for "bandits". After switching sides, as he was wont to do, one of the adventures he commanded, was a raid on the on the Buena Noche mine, ostensibly for dynamite to make bombs for the war.......What else might he have lifted?

Holmdahl spent many years in Mexico looking for buried gold and prospecting for minerals. I believe he may have been involved in some oil exploration as well. In addition to that, he participated in many schemes and projects in Mexico and the US.

Money and gold were a constant part of his life.

Joe Ribaudo

Yes, mercenaries are not starry-eyed political activists. They're paid well and always looking for a better deal.

 

[victorio1]

Senor, Mike (Gollum)

I came across a photo of a symbol we had found on the walls of the main fissure in Victorio Peak where Doc Noss descended in 1993. We were always puzzled as to it's meaning. We were pretty confident that is was created by Doc but couldn't figure out what it meant. I was wondering if you, or anyone, every came across something like this.

thanks


-alex

 

[gollum]

Hey Alex,

Its tough to make out in that lighting with those shadows. If Doc made it, it's not likely to be Spanish in nature. From the picture, it looks like a series of sooted holes.

Maybe it was Doc's way of keeping count of something. Maybe how many bars he was taking out of the passage?

The markings look too regular to be a map of any kind. Could you use MS Paint or draw and scan what the exact marking looked like?

Best-Mike

 

[victorio1]

Hey Alex,

Its tough to make out in that lighting with those shadows. If Doc made it, it's not likely to be Spanish in nature. From the picture, it looks like a series of sooted holes.

Maybe it was Doc's way of keeping count of something. Maybe how many bars he was taking out of the passage?

The markings look too regular to be a map of any kind. Could you use MS Paint or draw and scan what the exact marking looked like?

Best-Mike

There are only a two pictures of this symbol from what I have seen. We could never really see it clear enough. I can tell that it's made with a carbide lamp so it's not much older than Doc's era. Thanks for trying, it was puzzling. I thought I would leave you and all interested in a photo of the "Cross Rock" on the east side of Victorio Peak.

 

[gollum]

That's a beautiful cross Alex.

Anything behind or under that big rock? Did y'all look into the crevices behind all those rocks wedged in that gully? Might be another shaft nearby. Maybe a ventilation shaft. Maybe Doc hid some of the bars there and carved the cross to signify. Somebody went to some trouble to carve that.

Best-Mike

 

[victorio1]

That's a beautiful cross Alex.

Anything behind or under that big rock? Did y'all look into the crevices behind all those rocks wedged in that gully? Might be another shaft nearby. Maybe a ventilation shaft. Maybe Doc hid some of the bars there and carved the cross to signify. Somebody went to some trouble to carve that.

Best-Mike

Yes Mike, we looked in every possible crevice on Victorio Peak. We had access for four years. Although, we were mostly excavating Doc's original route we had other team members exploring the surrounding area. This Cross Rock, as I was told had a metal spike with a metal ring hanging out of it. Wes Cheatham, told me when he was 10 years old in 1955, right before Ova was evicted, that ring was still there. No sign of it now though. We all were under the impression that perhaps it was a place to hang slaves so it could be seen from a great distance. Not sure about that though. Doc, did tell the family that in a room where he had to breakdown the mortar door he witnessed 27 skeletons tied to a post. He observed that many parts of the bones were thrown around, by animals he thought. And, he also noticed that these slaves had their achilles cut leaving a slice still visible on the bone. So torture was happening. The cross on this rock was etched so long ago it nearly looks natural. In fact, some of the base archeologists thought it was natural. I pleaded with them to have faith about the Cross:-)

cheers,

-alex

 

[vintageic]

What happened? is everybody out treasure hunting?
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all!


Regards,
Brian.

 

[Peerless67]

Dont know how I missed this thread.

The news article that Mike posted, I posted on the forums some time ago I believe it was about 2007. It is the exact same "snippet" I posted taken from the full article.
Springfield to answer your question the article predates 1949 and the place they were at was El Paso, sorry I can not say anymore than that yet.

I believe I collected enough circumstantial evidence and some documented evidence to be able to say with some certainty that what Noss claims to have found in Victorio Peak, was actually spoils from working with Holmdahl.

Since I am unable to share everything I have, it would be worth reading the 17 tons thread where I believe I make it clear that I believe there is a strong possibility that Victorio Peak and the 17 tons are part of the same treasure. They just came to light in a different fashion each.

My theories can be read here

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,30806.100.html

 

[gollum]

Dont know how I missed this thread.

The news article that Mike posted, I posted on the forums some time ago I believe it was about 2007. It is the exact same "snippet" I posted taken from the full article.
Springfield to answer your question the article predates 1949 and the place they were at was El Paso, sorry I can not say anymore than that yet.

I believe I collected enough circumstantial evidence and some documented evidence to be able to say with some certainty that what Noss claims to have found in Victorio Peak, was actually spoils from working with Holmdahl.

Since I am unable to share everything I have, it would be worth reading the 17 tons thread where I believe I make it clear that I believe there is a strong possibility that Victorio Peak and the 17 tons are part of the same treasure. They just came to light in a different fashion each.

My theories can be read here

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,30806.100.html

Hey Buddy,

You sure that was in El Paso? From the way the article referenced Van Nuys, I thought it might have been in SoCal (the way it mentions "Van Nuys" and not "Van Nuys, Ca"). I could understand it if VN was mentioned previously in the article.

Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Mike the full article makes it clear exactly where they are, the reference to Van Nuys only states that Holmdahl left at 8 to make his way back to Van Nuys. Which is where he lived. Actually there is a little clue in the snippet where it opens "and California"

But really it does not make a lot of difference where they were, what is important is that I was able to establish Holmdahl and Noss had spent time in each others company.

I do not wish to turn this into a 17 tons thread, but I believe there is a better than strong possibility the two are linked.

This is just a theory but as I have stated elsewhere it is a theory that at least has some circumstantial evidence. I believe that Holmdahl found a Cache that was hidden by Villa, in all likelyhood in Mexico, at least there seems to be much evidence of Holmdahl actively looking for Villas treasure.
I believe it is possible that Noss played a part in as much as he was possibly helping Holmdahl.
I believe it is possible that Noss took the things that he had been given and "salted" Victorio Peak with them. He then "accidently" stumbled upon them whilst out "deer hunting" in the company of witnesses.
Indeed all the things that came out of Victorio Peak can most likely be traced back to Mexico and old Spain.
You have listed some of the things that came out, I had also heard about armour and boxes (possibly wells boxes) and boxes of mail.
If you look at the nice picture of Docs grandaughter holding some of the bars that were "reportedly" taken from the peak you will note something very interesting.
Mr Noss had managed to remove boxes, armour, crowns, swords and that great big piece of slag from his access point in Victorio Peak.
But in order to remove those little gold bars that fit in the palm of your hand he needed to blow the entrance up. Why ?
Other than those little bars that are reported to have come from the peak, where are the pictures of the large bars, or even a large number of the small bars ?
When you consider the existance of so many pictures of all the other stuff, do you not wonder why the portfolio does not contain pictures of those ?

Now for another strange coincidence, in 1949 Noss is shot dead. Shortly after the secret service are questioning people about gold being offered for sale to the government. Holmdahl is among them.
And his associates as clearly indicated by the secret service investigation you posted.

 

[Peerless67]

You definitely need to get your ducks in a row with these Noss stories - your credibility could be vulnerable if you don't get your stories straight.

I'm looking forward to hearing the 'truth' of all this.

Springfield as always, you are too astute. I absolutely agree with you 100%