Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

[Randy Bradford]

I was all ready to log onto Treasurenet when I got off work and start a thread devoted to items recovered from the Victorio Peak site (or alleged to have been). Low and behold the first thread on the site was the very thing I was thinking about. I had hoped to collect all the photos of things into one place and discuss them. I've seen the picture of the metal slag, the sword, the crown, the gold statue.

Since most of that has been accounted for on this thread I believe, what do we know about the current status of these items...do we know who has them? Have they ever been authenticated?

 

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[Jimi_X]

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The man with the blue hat is looking at graffiti on the wall.
I think that most of us know about the Orby Swanner graffiti....but I've read NOTHING about other graffiti within VP.
Are there any photos of other graffiti within VP? Does anyone know what the graffiti the man in the blue hat is looking at says?

 

[Ryano]

"L.B.J. was here" ? ?

 

[gollum]

Doc said there were a number of Indian Petroglyphs in the top few chambers. Many of those petros were painted on the door of the Rock House.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Doc said there were a number of Indian Petroglyphs in the top few chambers. Many of those petros were painted on the door of the Rock House.

Mike

Talk to any knowledgeable Apache and he will tell you that the tribe did not carve petroglyphs. A few pictographs (painted) here and there, yes, but nothing scratched or carved into rock. It was either the Anasazi, early whites or maybe Doc himself who did those "Indian" carvings.

 

[gollum]

Talk to any knowledgeable Apache and he will tell you that the tribe did not carve petroglyphs. A few pictographs (painted) here and there, yes, but nothing scratched or carved into rock. It was either the Anasazi, early whites or maybe Doc himself who did those "Indian" carvings.

Not certain whether petroglyphs or pictographs. I haven't been inside VP. The only one I KNOW exists was either sooted or was a pictograph. It was in the top chamber, and was also recreated on the front door of the Rock House. Not likely to have been Doc. No record exists of ANYONE knowing of Doc making carvings/paintings up. In the same area (Northeast of VP) was "Bloody Hands". This was the area of one of the "SECRET ENTRANCES" to VP. I dont remember exactly when, but somebody blew up Bloody Hands thinking it led to treasure.

Mike

 

[Jimi_X]

Not certain whether petroglyphs or pictographs. I haven't been inside VP. The only one I KNOW exists was either sooted or was a pictograph. It was in the top chamber, and was also recreated on the front door of the Rock House. Not likely to have been Doc. No record exists of ANYONE knowing of Doc making carvings/paintings up. In the same area (Northeast of VP) was "Bloody Hands". This was the area of one of the "SECRET ENTRANCES" to VP. I dont remember exactly when, but somebody blew up Bloody Hands thinking it led to treasure.

Mike

Wasn't Bloody Hands blown up by Drolte when he went in under Nixon's auspices? I thought it was blown because Drolte thought that it was an allusion to the location of treasure....Seem to remember it was photographed before the dynamiting.

 

[gollum]

Wasn't Bloody Hands blown up by Drolte when he went in under Nixon's auspices? I thought it was blown because Drolte thought that it was an allusion to the location of treasure....Seem to remember it was photographed before the dynamiting.

Doc said that Bloody Hands was near one of the secret entrances to VP.

I wish I could find that picture! There is also a guy that (according to a source) in New Mexico that has pictures of the stacks of bars inside VP. Also an attorney in New Mexico that has the original Holding Receipt for the bars Doc handed to the US Mint.

Mike

 

[autofull]

all that exists are stories. stories about pictures ,lots of hard work with no reward and lots of goodies that are not in anyones hand or bank account. but, the noss stuff, like the sword, and other in hand simple items, could have come from anywhere. there is no proof of anything that has come from the peak but stories and a few old pictures of stuff that could have arrived from anywhere. ya can photo anything and make a claim as to what it is. the only one i know that recieved money due to his part of handling monies as a civillian working at white sands and rapeing the money fund was larry rios. just another crook. doc was a great con man superb fiction reading though. these are my opinions after 45yrs of my own study of this folly. but, hey, just keep believing. ask yourself this. why did doc die poor. because he never had anything to begin with.

 

[sdcfia]

all that exists are stories. stories about pictures ,lots of hard work with no reward and lots of goodies that are not in anyones hand or bank account. but, the noss stuff, like the sword, and other in hand simple items, could have come from anywhere. there is no proof of anything that has come from the peak but stories and a few old pictures of stuff that could have arrived from anywhere. ya can photo anything and make a claim as to what it is. the only one i know that recieved money due to his part of handling monies as a civillian working at white sands and rapeing the money fund was larry rios. just another crook. doc was a great con man superb fiction reading though. these are my opinions after 45yrs of my own study of this folly. but, hey, just keep believing. ask yourself this. why did doc die poor. because he never had anything to begin with.

He also died at the hand of another investor he recently cheated.

 

[franklin]

Doc said that Bloody Hands was near one of the secret entrances to VP.

I wish I could find that picture! There is also a guy that (according to a source) in New Mexico that has pictures of the stacks of bars inside VP. Also an attorney in New Mexico that has the original Holding Receipt for the bars Doc handed to the US Mint.

Mike

gollum, I found this assay report a long time ago on the Internet. It is a gold bar that Dr. Noss had assayed. I will attempt to upload it. At least Dr. Noss had this one gold bar and it was worth in 1939 a little over $5500. Gold at $35. an ounce today would be about 35 times that amount or about $192000.

 

[autofull]

thank you sdcfia . i base my statement on research and the obvious. there may be a picture of some kinda bars in a cave but, it could be anything anywhere. not at the peak. made a heck of a good reading story though and i started out as a teen age believer to one who is just sad about the whole farce. i once said perhaps there was load of uranium ore in there. that could be one reason they tore it apart. the g pushed civvies into that hunt right after the war. read some 40,s popular mechanics issues. sometimes those are my hot sheets. good magazine back then.

 

[gollum]

gollum, I found this assay report a long time ago on the Internet. It is a gold bar that Dr. Noss had assayed. I will attempt to upload it. At least Dr. Noss had this one gold bar and it was worth in 1939 a little over $5500. Gold at $35. an ounce today would be about 35 times that amount or about $192000.

View attachment 1641397

Franklin,

That is an Ore Assay. Notice that the gold and silver are measured as "Ounces Per Ton". If it would have been a bar or nugget, all measurements would have been percentages of the whole. The reason ore is measured in ounces per ton is because there is a larger measure of host rock. If you read Book #1 of the Gold House Trilogy, what you have is an assay of some copper ore Doc had.

Mike

 

[gollum]

all that exists are stories. stories about pictures ,lots of hard work with no reward and lots of goodies that are not in anyones hand or bank account. but, the noss stuff, like the sword, and other in hand simple items, could have come from anywhere. there is no proof of anything that has come from the peak but stories and a few old pictures of stuff that could have arrived from anywhere. ya can photo anything and make a claim as to what it is. the only one i know that recieved money due to his part of handling monies as a civillian working at white sands and rapeing the money fund was larry rios. just another crook. doc was a great con man superb fiction reading though. these are my opinions after 45yrs of my own study of this folly. but, hey, just keep believing. ask yourself this. why did doc die poor. because he never had anything to begin with.

You are welcome to believe anything you wish.

Although it is a known fact that Doc gave away and sold both gold dore and refined gold bars. A Spanish Suit of Armor and a couple of gold bars that came from VP were given to his helper Benny Samaniego. Benny paid cash for several lots and built a house on them all at the same time (right after leaving Docs Employ). Tony Jolley spent several years attempting to find some of the 110 gold bars he helped Doc rebury the night before he was murdered. He found ten, and with the money he got from them, he bought the ranch his son inherited.



But yeah......you're right. Nothing to see there. Just a scam.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

gollum, I found this assay report a long time ago on the Internet. It is a gold bar that Dr. Noss had assayed. I will attempt to upload it. At least Dr. Noss had this one gold bar and it was worth in 1939 a little over $5500. Gold at $35. an ounce today would be about 35 times that amount or about $192000.

View attachment 1641397

Look closely at that assay. The results were extrapolated to report metal values per ton. The 40-pound bars that Noss found in the Caballos and took to have assayed were copper bars - 71% copper per the assay. When you figure the gold and silver contents per bar, you get about 3 ounces gold and less than 2 ounces silver per 40-pound bar. This puts the value of a single bar at about $110 at 1939 prices. Valuable, yes, but by no means considered to be "gold bars" - 0.005 gold value by weight, in fact. This is why Noss was frequently accused of trying to sell fake gold bars.

 

[sdcfia]

thank you sdcfia . i base my statement on research and the obvious. there may be a picture of some kinda bars in a cave but, it could be anything anywhere. not at the peak. made a heck of a good reading story though and i started out as a teen age believer to one who is just sad about the whole farce. i once said perhaps there was load of uranium ore in there. that could be one reason they tore it apart. the g pushed civvies into that hunt right after the war. read some 40,s popular mechanics issues. sometimes those are my hot sheets. good magazine back then.

Gollum is correct in that Noss refined some of the copper bars into, essentially, gold bullion bars. He attempted to sell these to the Denver Mint, which refused to buy them due to the restrictions placed on gold ownership resulting from the Gold Act of 1933 (traitorous legislation passed by FDR).

It's my contention that Noss discovered a large cache of copper bars carrying significant gold values in the Caballo Mountains ca 1930 +/-. Those bars almost certainly originated at Santa Rita del Cobre, 50 miles to the west, as the early reports from that famous copper mine indicate the same metal mix: high-grade copper ores carrying enough gold to pay for the shipping south to Chihuahua for coinage. How these bars ended up in the Caballos is unexplained.

Later, Noss begins his Victorio Peak scams, using his previously refined gold bars for a variety of fraudulent acts.

 

[franklin]

It is still rich ore if you can get 146 ounces of gold from one ton of dirt. Highly profitable with 48% gold 28 1/2% silver and 23 1/2% copper. This most likely was assayed from where the gold bars were found by Noss. I believe he found the gold and the GMEN stole it from the family.

 

[sdcfia]

It is still rich ore if you can get 146 ounces of gold from one ton of dirt. Highly profitable with 48% gold 28 1/2% silver and 23 1/2% copper. This most likely was assayed from where the gold bars were found by Noss. I believe he found the gold and the GMEN stole it from the family.

Yeah, the early Santa Rita ore was very rich, and would be considered high-grade gold ore by any measurement, but the rough-smelted bars Noss found are considered "copper bars":

Gold: 146 troy oz gold/ton / 14.5 troy oz/pound / 2,000 pound/ton = 0.005 (one-half percent) gold/ton
Copper: 71% x 2,000 pounds/ton = 1,420 pounds copper/ton

The bars he had refined from the copper bars were mostly gold and used as bait.

 

[gollum]

Yeah, the early Santa Rita ore was very rich, and would be considered high-grade gold ore by any measurement, but the rough-smelted bars Noss found are considered "copper bars":

Gold: 146 troy oz gold/ton / 14.5 troy oz/pound / 2,000 pound/ton = 0.005 (one-half percent) gold/ton
Copper: 71% x 2,000 pounds/ton = 1,420 pounds copper/ton

The bars he had refined from the copper bars were mostly gold and used as bait.

As far as I know, Doc never refined anything. I think one of the many people around him (including his wife) would have known if he had been smelting anything.

Doc found both his Caballos Cave and VP based on the map Willie Douthit murdered Jack Ryan to get. Willie's Cave and Doc's Caballos Cave were VERY close to each other. I have it on good authority that they both knew where each other's cave was (same canyon different hole in the ground).

I have heard one story about Doc and Copper Bars. Imagine if you were known locally to have sold gold bars in 1935 (after the Gold Act). Can you guess how badly Uncle Sam would want to set you up with an illegal gold sale so they could blackmail you into giving up the location of your gold source? The story is that Doc was ALWAYS very suspicious of anybody he was selling gold to. If he thought they were Feds, he would bring a copper bar to the sale. They would piss and moan about him ripping them off, and he would stay out of jail.

There is an Attorney in New Mexico that has the original "Hold Receipt" given to Doc by the US Mint.

I also refer you to the Tony Jolley Interview. He said that he helped handle and bury 110 gold bars the night before Doc was murdered by Charlie Ryan. Twelve years later he found 10 of the 110, and used the money from them to buy the ranch his son inherited when he died.

Mike

 

[motel6.5]

100 more bars to find and I know the area.
Good luck to all.