Very Thick Brass/Copper Chunky Ring - Never seen one like this before

[BioProfessor]

Greeting again from the Netherlands. The potato crop is starting to come out and I'm getting back to some places that have given up some nice medieval finds. I braved the rain today to hunt a freshly harvested part of a field. Found the normal stuff - coin from the 1600's, clothes fasteners, lead bale seals, musket balls, etc. and then this popped out of the ground.

I've dug a lot of rings (mostly horse tack) in a lot of places but nothing like this. It is solid and came out of the ground just like this. My best guess is that it is brass. There is no green bronze disease so I'm pretty sure it is not bronze.

I've looked at what is called "Ring Money" and all the examples I can find that are this thick and big are made by bending a rod into a circle. This one was not bent and there is little evidence of a sprue of a size needed to cast something of this size. So I'm stumped.

Any help, guidance, or similar finds would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Daryl

 

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[BioProfessor]

Hi Breezie,

I thought the same thing as well as I went down the list of "possibilities" but it just seemed too thick and the hole too small to make a good ring for a pot. The ring was usually attached to something else besides a pot and there wouldn't be much room for a hook or a rod. Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the help. It could be.

Daryl

 

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[trikikiwi]

Hi Daryl
It appears to have a seam in the inner of the ring - evident in pic #2.
Or are my eyes deceiving me?

Mike

 

[BioProfessor]

I'll clean it a bit and see what it reveals.

Daryl

 

[BioProfessor]

Cleaned it a bit. No seam that I can see.

Daryl

 

[BioProfessor]

Now those are interesting. Got more info?

Daryl

 

[BioProfessor]

Where did the weights post go?

Daryl

 

[woody50]

Well Daryl, after being with you when it was found (oh, was I wet - boots full, it rained the whole day and that with wind) and seeing it in person (2nd person to see it, if you count yourself as a person and not a professor) I don't think you should discount it being something made and lost way before the Romans or Celtics. What about this:

I am still thinking its some sort of money. Its not something I think someone would throw away, something like that would be recycled. This was lost, not intentionally.

About the first map, see the living centers by Alkmaar and the coast.

(the dutch text:

The dotted places are the living centers in Holland in the Frankische Time, about 900 BC.
The stripped places are were the North Sea was in that time (so not fresh water but connected to the sea).
The text under the map says : The Ijssel (that is a river) meer (lake) gebied (area).

The Netherlands looks much different nowadays, see the second map.

 

[trikikiwi]

Where did the weights post go?

Daryl

Sorry Daryl, I was posting late last night - went to add more info to my post, but got distracted.
This is a small weighing apparatus made in the Chu State during the Warring States Period. The weight of the bronze-ring counterpoise progressively increases by multiplication to about 500 grams.

http://history.cultural-china.com/en/57H2758H7983.html

It will be interesting to know if your ring is of a specific weight - although I'm not suggesting it is of Chinese origin.
Mike

 

[BioProfessor]

I found the same thing when I Googled it. They do look similar though not as fat. It is an interesting thing to consider. The Chinese had arrived in Holland by the 1700's and did lots of work with the ceramics. The tiles became thinner. The pipe stems became thinner. They were much better at all this than the Dutch and allowed better technique and used less material. So they were definitely here. Did some of them bring things from back home? You bet. Could one thing have been an old set scale? You bet. It is worth investigating.

Thanks,

Daryl

 

[CRUSADER]

just a thought - a chucky bead worn around the neck as a centre piece

 

[Breezie]

Daryl, check out these brass beads; first pic, bottom left.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,344066.0.html

Breezie

 

[BioProfessor]

You may be right Crusader as I thought about wearing it myself. Just like to know who, what, and when. I know the where but may never know the why.

Thanks Breezie, those are lead spindle whorls. We find a lot of them. Sometimes they are decorated even. Lots are stone and make good eye finds. They tend to be sort of "cone shaped" when viewed from the side. But they do look similar.

Daryl

 

[CRUSADER]

You may be right Crusader as I thought about wearing it myself. Just like to know who, what, and when. I know the where but may never know the why.

Thanks Breezie, those are lead spindle whorls. We find a lot of them. Sometimes they are decorated even. Lots are stone and make good eye finds. They tend to be sort of "cone shaped" when viewed from the side. But they do look similar.

Daryl

I think I would hang it around my neck on a leather string, just to see how well it sits

 

[BioProfessor]

It would sit heavy.

And you could always use it as a weapon.

Not sure if I could take this thing banging on my chest and my neck would surely know it was there.

Daryl

 

[CRUSADER]

It would sit heavy.

And you could always use it as a weapon.

Not sure if I could take this thing banging on my chest and my neck would surely know it was there.

Daryl

men were men back then

 

[trikikiwi]

I'm intrigued with the way the three grooves are angled.
Obviously intentional. So possibly purposeful rather than just decorative.
Mike

 

[woody50]

I'm intrigued with the way the three grooves are angled.
Obviously intentional. So possibly purposeful rather than just decorative.
Mike

Me too, it looks like there were three wires attached or something like that, one left, one straight, right in the middle and one right, the left and right going at an angle away from the middle. And the wires moved or something, because otherwise they would not have made grooves. I don't think it was manufactured with the grooves, say as a design or something. It would not be grooves I think but something filed or cut out then.

But good, if there were three wires holding the object, why. What was the purpose. Maybe a axle or something was then through the hole, but since the wire grooves are deep you would think you would see something of wear on the top/bottom....

An other guess is what others have said, a hanger. For maybe not around your neck but elsewhere like a coat or something. Or decoration on a horse?

 

[BioProfessor]

If they were REAL men, they didn't wear it around their neck.

I think the grooves are the give away but since they are "V" shaped, I'm thinking more of something like leather or rope and not wire. The show no signs of wear and if wire were used, then something would show. And since they are on one side only, it would have movement. The more I think about it, the more confusing it becomes.

Hope this doesn't turn into Pigg Nutz.

Daryl

 

[woody50]

If they were REAL men, they didn't wear it around their neck.

I think the grooves are the give away but since they are "V" shaped, I'm thinking more of something like leather or rope and not wire. The show no signs of wear and if wire were used, then something would show. And since they are on one side only, it would have movement. The more I think about it, the more confusing it becomes.
Hope this doesn't turn into Pigg Nutz.
Daryl

I think its a Pigg Nutz (only one of them though)....

Leather is soft and would not make the grooves, the grooves are thin. It would have to be wire to make a thin groove, rope is too thick also. This is a small thing, rope and leather would not be strong if so thin. No way.

I think they show no way because the wire was on the thing when it was new and shiny. Then the groves are made, then the wires break and the thing falls into the tall grass. It forms a thick patina which hides any signs of wear. I would think that since they are only on one side that could be correct. It does not have to be wire that wraps around the thing, could be parallel to it.

 

[Silver Searcher]

If they were REAL men, they didn't wear it around their neck.

I think the grooves are the give away but since they are "V" shaped, I'm thinking more of something like leather or rope and not wire. The show no signs of wear and if wire were used, then something would show. And since they are on one side only, it would have movement. The more I think about it, the more confusing it becomes.
Hope this doesn't turn into Pigg Nutz.
Daryl

I think its a Pigg Nutz (only one of them though)....

Leather is soft and would not make the grooves, the grooves are thin. It would have to be wire to make a thin groove, rope is too thick also. This is a small thing, rope and leather would not be strong if so thin. No way.

I think they show no way because the wire was on the thing when it was new and shiny. Then the groves are made, then the wires break and the thing falls into the tall grass. It forms a thick patina which hides any signs of wear. I would think that since they are only on one side that could be correct. It does not have to be wire that wraps around the thing, could be parallel to it.

If it's a Torc terminal, the grooves could have been made from the Gold wire that formed the Torc. The terminal itself might have been Gold dipped...just a thought

SS