Two peaks

[UncleMatt]

No.

And I think Google Earth defaults to cancun, mexico when it can't understand the coordinates being fed to it, that is why markmar's initial GPS cords showed up there when I cut and paste them into it. Either that or it couldn't understand the degrees without the degree symbol.

When I converted his cords to GPS digital, it showed the correct location. But since it is right outside Phoenix and all...

 

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[UncleMatt]

Allen Account

"Hot-ta-pi-wit valley averages about three hundred yards in width. It has a flat bottom, no trees growing in it, but its sides are covered with pines, rather small, about the right size for log cabins"


Byerts Account

"This surely was an ideal place to camp, as we saw, water, fire wood and shelter, for the canyon was hemmed in by perpendicular rocks hundreds of feet high as far as we could see in every direction, and our guide told us this canyon was miles long, and this was the only place in the whole canyon where and animal of any kind could get in or out."

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ladies & gentlemen, since I honestly can't contribute anything rational or positive to this search, I will basically remain in the background on it, not postulating on it as being in the Tayopa complex, of which I am in Springfields, Oro de Tayopa, etc., opinions that it is 'not' in Mexico -- or is it

However I retain the right to a smart alec post from time to time oK ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[UncleMatt]

You can't do any worse than I have, thinking that markmar's cords were cancun. I swear that is what Google Earth came up with though, honest!

 

[markmar]

You can't do any worse than I have, thinking that markmar's cords were cancun. I swear that is what Google Earth came up with though, honest!

UncleMatt

I believe you . I knew how if you copy-paste the coordinates , will lead you to Cancun . This is what happens if you copy-paste the LAD clues . The coordinates were a clue , not 100% clear , but you found the way to decrypt them .

 

[UncleMatt]

Anyhoo, I have more reading to do today, but my idea about canyon analysis may be a bust. The peaks still have me fascinated, and I'm still finalizing the GE map with distance sectors. So many people have searched for the LAD and come up empty that I am trying to think outside the box. I'm just looking for ways to narrow down the search area initially, and figure out the rest as I go along.

 

[UncleMatt]

I am still working on my map, trying to get the Continental Divide to display on it properly before I post it.

I noticed this in the Byert account of the LAD:

"The third day, we crossed the Continental Divide"

This is referring to the number of days out of the Pima Villages they had traveled. For the sake of argument, lets assume they crossed the divide near Pie Town, NM. That is almost 224 miles as the crow flies from Sacaton, AZ. In three days on horseback? Almost 75 miles a day? I doubt that very much! And it would have been much farther on the ground! An inconvenient truth that Jack Purcell also noted in his book, and I am sure many others have noticed as well. Even if they did not cross at Pie Town, the distances involved would have been the same.

As well, this account claims they skirted the base of the White Mountains, with no mention of entering the range and going to the top of Mount Ord (Or Baldy) to view the twin peaks from afar. ??

 

[markmar]

UncleMatt

Is very hard if not impossible to find LAD with the LAD's clues . I believe are 90% wrong . Many others have tried and have searched foot by foot all the NM , without find it . Maybe you are the lucky guy but I doubt , not because you are not lucky but because is not in NM ( IMO ).
I found my spot which is the same to LAD , from three different maps . The one says how the gold nuggets are like quail eggs . After the maps , are some clues which IMO were misinterpreted from the writers . The White Mountains instead White Mountain in Superstitions and Malpais instead Malapais in Superstitions . Doc Thorne , in one of his tales , said how when was prisoner of the Indians near the Salt - Verde rivers junction , one day when he was hunting near the Indian camp , he found a canyon wash full of big gold nuggets which was near of some red hills . I believe these hills are the three Red Hills in Superstitions which are close to my spot .
You have to choose between the ghost LAD and a canyon with big gold nuggets which maybe is not LAD , but who knows the truth ?

 

[UncleMatt]

your spot is right outside Phoenix. Good luck with that, but it has nothing to do with the LAD stories in my humble opinion.

 

[markmar]

your spot is right outside Phoenix. Good luck with that, but it has nothing to do with the LAD stories in my humble opinion.

What you mean " right outside Phoenix " ?

 

[UncleMatt]

Just what I said. Feel free to start a thread about your site, but this thread is not about that site.

 

[UncleMatt]

I don't mean to be rude markmar, but please understand it is not my belief the LAD is in Arizona. Especially when the Adam's group were shown the "two peaks" from the top of Mount Ord, and distance estimates were 100 miles to the northeast. Your site is in the opposite direction, to the southwest.

 

[markmar]

UncleMatt

I respect your beliefs , and I wish you good luck .

 

[UncleMatt]

With regard to what I posted earlier about the LAD group crossing the continental divide on their third day, even at its closest points to the Pima Villages, the divide is a minimum of 190 miles away. If you only look at the distances to the NE, it is over 200. And that is as the crow flies. No way they made that distance in 3 days on horseback in that terrain. Now maybe they could have made it from Mount Ord in that timeframe, but Mount Ord is not even mentioned in the Byert account.

I think Byert published his pamphlet on the LAD to make money, and accuracy was not the focus at all, if he even had anything to be accurate about to begin with. I think he just tried to cash in on an already popular treasure tale.

 

[Springfield]

With regard to what I posted earlier about the LAD group crossing the continental divide on their third day, even at its closest points to the Pima Villages, the divide is a minimum of 190 miles away. If you only look at the distances to the NE, it is over 200. And that is as the crow flies. No way they made that distance in 3 days on horseback in that terrain. Now maybe they could have made it from Mount Ord in that timeframe, but Mount Ord is not even mentioned in the Byert account.

I think Byert published his pamphlet on the LAD to make money, and accuracy was not the focus at all, if he even had anything to be accurate about to begin with. I think he just tried to cash in on an already popular treasure tale.

You're seeing the problem with the LDM Matt. Who and what do you wish to believe? And, more importantly - why?

 

[UncleMatt]

I agree springfield, it is a minefield of half truths. And its anyone's guess what is real and what is not, if any of it is real. When you are dealing with gold, people often feel free to alter the information to their own intents and desires. I doubt Adams ever told anyone the truth of things, because he wanted it all for himself. And most people that published things about LAD seem to me to just have been trying to cash in on the legend. Time will tell.

 

[UncleMatt]

I am a few key strokes away from my map being ready, thanks to clay diggings and his awesome Continental Divide kml file! Thanks Clay!

However, I am reluctant to post any new content here on T-net until management resolves a few issues. If you would like a copy of the map, please PM me in a couple of weeks.

 

[UncleMatt]

In Jack Purcell's book I read of the Washie Jones Account, with special attention to page 87:

"Adams claimed he went from Post Caliente, to Los Angeles, CA, where he married and raised a family. During that time he had a severe attack of typhoid fever and nearly died. He lost his memory, and said if it had not been for his wife and children he might not been able to recall anything about his trip to the rich placer. They heard him repeatedly describe the route he had taken, the surrounding country, and the unbelievable amount of placer gold that lay in the bed of the small canyon. As they repeated what he had told them, his memory slowly returned until he once more had a clear vision of what had happened."

Long ago in another galaxy I got a degree in Psychology, with a focus on brain function (including memory). From that perspective, and if this account of Adam's illness is accurate, it is very possible he never recovered his memory, and the things he was told by his wife and kids would have simply been perceived after the illness as his own memories. Anyone knows, the grapevine is not a sound way to deliver accurate messages. People operate their own filters, remember things their own way, and often distort them on re-telling them. People's emotions and fantasies get involved too. A child would probably magnify the amount of gold for example.

This could explain why he gave such widely varying accounts to different people over the years, with different facts involved in each. The Indians didn't "make him forget", if he actually had typhoid fever in CA, he likely lost those memories. And only the imperfect recollections and re-tellings of his wife and children remained to draw from.

 

[Oroblanco]

Great post UncleMatt - and the typhus explanation for memory loss is certainly intriguing. Have there been cases where a person that survivied a case of typhus, suffered memory loss (perhaps from the fevers?) ? It would make sense and explain much, without having to resort to some mystical Apache way to "make you forget".
Roy

 

[UncleMatt]

I often thought Adam's referred to what we would call Post Traumatic Stress Disorder when he spoke of the Indians making him forget. Like they scared it out of him.