TIRED of Folks Trying to RUN MY LIFE

[ScubaDetector]

One more reply for now. The sheriff was just kicking me out of the water. I could have got out, waited till he left and got back in. Afterthought is great. However, I was given permission. This is not a state law, or a county law, it was a city ordinance. The county has no jurisdiction over the city in this case.

No investigation, no nice officer. Just a jerk with a badge demanding, threatening and thinking I had no rights.

So what is the worst that can happen? I get found guilty. Lets say I do get fined 500.00. That will take my gold finds down to around 4 grand there. I highly doubt that will happen. I was reading the fine schedule and although my supposed offenses are not on there, driving 31+ miles an hour over the limit the fine is 195.00.

I will go to court and submit my evidence and my proof and will let the judge decide if I was within my rights or if he feels I broke the law. It is that simple. I have absolutely no criminal record. A civil infraction is still no criminal record. I can't go to jail.

I thought about a liar err I mean lawyer however, in calling them I haven't found one for less than 1500.00.

Some of you think, I should have left, some of you applaud my actions, that is fine and understandable. If everyone agreed on everthing, this would be a dull world! I have absolutely no regrets and that is the important part.

Folks, I do have one other thing to say. I have one other piece of evidence I haven't told you about because of the lurkers on here. I don't know how much it will help me but I will reveal it after court. I will let everyone know the outcome no matter what happens and will also let everyone know what I have held back. However, what I have held back has absolutely nothing to do with my confrontation with the sheriff.

 

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[digger460]

Oh Man! Your going to leave us hanging GL SD

 

[ScubaDetector]

Oh Man! Your going to leave us hanging GL SD

LOL, I have no choice! I was told I have 14 days from the date the citation was issued to respond. It was issued on the 4th although I got it on the 11th. I called the court on the 12th and they have no record of it. Told me to call back in a week? That will be more than 14 days. I will call back on Monday. So I am going diving!

 

[Fletch88]

Just don't put your dive flag up! Hug the bottom and surface back up at your boat!
Most idiots disregard my dive flag and drive right up to it with a dumb look on their face like "is someone diving here or what?"

 

[Xraywolf]

SD doesn't use his boat there, though feasible would be quite a lengthy and gas hogging voyage from the marina and back ,,, Far easier to drive there, gear up and wade in.
Anchoring a boat there would be really awkward and sure to attract attention, might be illegal in itself not sure.

 

[Anduril]

If you had enough air, I would have gone downstream a ways and left them hanging as to when (or "if") I was ever going to surface.
I assume you weren't that deep.

You could have kept them out there all day!

Oh, and I have hobbies that cost more than $500.
Screw the police. There was no reason for the officer to be a jerk about the initial confrontation. (My opinion.)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Very good post Skippy. I see what you are saying too. It will be interesting to see how scuba's situation plays out.

 

[ScubaDetector]

The fine line is drawn when they ask you to do something unreasonable out of the normal course of a basic investigation or stop. To begin with, I never suggested to Scuba that he should obey ALL orders, I only expressed that my fear, for him in this situation, is that the officer's requests for him to remove himself from the otherwise off-limits premises, until he could demonstrate he had authorization, will be considered a legal and reasonable request by the court.

In this case, it was highly unlikely a diver had secured harbormaster permission (even though he did), and it was reasonable, in my opinion, to be asked to step out of the situation for a conversation. They didn't ask him to remove equipment, check his equipment, do a search or anything other that remove himself from the location of concern.

Let's move this to a different scenario with the same situation. Let's say I've got permission to be in a building that has been empty for years, and is in an area that is off-limits to the public by law or ordinance. Some Sheriff's deputy cops come by and sees that I'm in the building. Not knowing who I am, what I'm doing, or having been informed ahead of time that a person is there (which possibly has NEVER happened in the 10 years they've worked there), the officer assumes the person shouldn't be there (not unreasonably). They then yell, "COME OUT OF THERE NOW, OR WE'LL FINE YOU WITH $500 FOR TRESSPASSING," In this scenario, even though I have secured legal permission to be on premises, I'm certainly not going to look at them, wave them INTO the building, and when they don't come, just go back to what I'm doing, until I'm finished. I'm going to walk out, talk to them, explain it, THEN go back to my business. This does NOT mean that the cops weren't jerks, or were over-reacting, but I think the law may see it as reasonable to request removal from the premises. This why I'm so dang curious how this will play out for Scuba in court. To be clear, I DON'T KNOW if Scuba's actions will be considered legal. In fact, I was only pointing that out to him, because, as I noted, he'll probably need an answer of why the Sheriff's actions were disregarded as unreasonable.

Tom, I see your point with "what is reasonable," but that's what the judges are for, to be sure. If you're looking for a thin line. Here's where it is for me. If they're not touching me, asking me to expose myself, or searching me, and they simply ask me to come closer to speak with them, I consider that a reasonable request. In fact, I do this ALL THE TIME in the parks with officers that have not seen metal detectorists before. Our city has great ordinances specifically allowing metal detecting. Our bike officers (literally, on bicycles) have stood on the sidewalk, and called out for me to come over. We were separated only by 20 -30 yards, but in each and every time, I simply walked over, explained, showed them some finds, got to know them, and went back to my business. In none of these cases, was I asked to perform an action that would expose myself... or whistle.

If you're looking for a line, I'd draw it differently than Scuba did. Candidly, I don't know if he'll be cleared on this one, I think it could go either way. And for Scuba's sake, I dang sure hope the judge sees it the same way he does! I'm rooting for him, I LIKE his interpretation. I simply don't know if it'll work out for him. And now, the courts will determine whether his interpretation was legal or not. That is all.


Cheers!

Skippy,

As I stated, he wasn't going to ask me questions. He wasn't investigating. He was demanding I get out, and threatening me with a fine PERIOD as I have stated. He didn't want to talk to me. He was on the PA making demands so everyone on shore could see his authority work. If I was in a building, of course he would be investigating. This however was not the case at all. If I would have got out, he would have left. I tried to talk to him and he wouldn't listen. Kept looking on his phone for the ordinance. Then they took my dive flag.

I KNOW what an investigation is. I know how he should have handled it. I have two double edge dive knifes on me. I told them about them, they could have cared less. I posed no threat, except to his supposed authority. If you are rude and demanding from the start, you don't get any respect from me. Badge or no badge.

I don't fear anything. if found guilty, so what. He was wrong and I know it and so does he.

 

[Honest Samuel]

If nothings works, sue everybody who is harassing you. Keep diving and good luck.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You have most likely lost the site for good by being confrontational instead you could have left and contacted harbor master for continued written permission....




_________________________Tapatalk Signature_________________________

DT2016

 

[ScubaDetector]

You have most likely lost the site for good by being confrontational instead you could have left and contacted harbor master for continued written permission....




_________________________Tapatalk Signature_________________________

DT2016

Quite possibly. I thought of that also afterwords. I do realize I could have got out, waited till the sheriff left and went right back in. Jerks with badges irk me though! I had a boss the same way, that is why I stand my ground now. As I said, I was forced out after I lost my parents and now I don't take lip from bullies with badges.

If so, I can wait till another harbormaster is there, or I can find another good place to play. Not like I can't to that easily enough! The harbormaster was nice to me. He did tell me I brought it on myself which I realize. I will go up the chain of command though after this is done, If I prevail.

I will let everyone know what happens. I am also trying to see how the ordinance can be changed and why it is in effect in the first place. I believe it is in effect because of all the murder weapons that get tossed in the river in Detroit. However, that is just speculation.

It is a civil infraction. I guess it depends on the fine if it is worth going back and getting another citation!

Thanks.

 

[cudamark]

You have most likely lost the site for good by being confrontational instead you could have left and contacted harbor master for continued written permission....



_________________________Tapatalk Signature_________________________

DT2016

Not only has HE lost that site, but, everyone else has too. Do you think the harbormaster is going to stick his neck out again for someone else wanting to dive there, or, anywhere else under his jurisdiction? Our actions have consequences beyond our own personal interests.

 

[ScubaDetector]

Not only has HE lost that site, but, everyone else has too. Do you think the harbormaster is going to stick his neck out again for someone else wanting to dive there, or, anywhere else under his jurisdiction? Our actions have consequences beyond our own personal interests.

Nobody else was ever there. Except waders which were also kicked out. Funny thing is there is nothing in the law that prevents waders. And maybe you are right. However, I WILL stand up for my rights. I could care less what others think the consequences might be.

You folks can applaud me or condemn me. I could care less. I am here to do what I feel is right. Not what any of you feel is right for me. My signature in blue says it all.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Hmm, Five-pages, almost 1,900-views, at least 76-responses, I guess nobody really cares ScubaDetector.

Tear it up Baby! You just GO BOY!

 

[Fletch88]

Not only has HE lost that site, but, everyone else has too. Do you think the harbormaster is going to stick his neck out again for someone else wanting to dive there, or, anywhere else under his jurisdiction? Our actions have consequences beyond our own personal interests.

It's just a matter of time before private yards and land are all we can enjoy. With Internet, social media, TV shows it will only get worse at exponential rate!

 

[cudamark]

I guess I'm getting more pragmatic as I get older. I not only want to hunt today, I want to hunt tomorrow. Ticking someone off so they close my hunting area seems to be counterproductive to me. I rather just give them a fake smile and come back and hunt another day and/or time. Being right and winning an argument with a flunky isn't that important if it means you've lost the war with the decision makers and you can no longer detect.

 

[Deft Tones]

Well, I don't matter and I don't mind. I don't mind if I don't matter either! Mind over matter...If I don't mind it doesn't matter.

 

[ScubaDetector]

I guess I'm getting more pragmatic as I get older. I not only want to hunt today, I want to hunt tomorrow. Ticking someone off so they close my hunting area seems to be counterproductive to me. I rather just give them a fake smile and come back and hunt another day and/or time. Being right and winning an argument with a flunky isn't that important if it means you've lost the war with the decision makers and you can no longer detect.

You know what is funny. IF I never joined this site NOBODY would have ever known. Just like all the other times the police have been called on me.

How many folks are out there digging graveyards, National parks, ILLEGAL places and not on any website to open themselves to flack from others? You hear about a few in the news. How many get away with it?

We are ALL GUESTS here as a moderator put it. People come and go and some on here try to make others go. You ACCEPT people for what they are and who they are. If you don't they either decide not to put up with others opinions and leave or they stay without caring what others think.

I just don't care. I have been through a LOT in my life. Death of a wife, divorce, my parents being killed, 6 daughters, bankruptcy, poverty and a whole lot of other things. My point is, WE ALL have to live with ourselves and do what WE FEEL is best for each situation. Could I have done something different? Yes. Did I chose to? No

People come and go on sites like this. I can go and someone will be out there to take my place. Will they do everything the way everyone thinks they should. Maybe, and maybe not. We are ALL here to help others, share our finds and look at what some can find that we have absolutely no chance to.

Detectorists in Japan find amazing rings, in England they find history we can only dream of, land hunters can find history down south that isn't seen in the north and west. I find things underwater that most will also never see land detecting. Parks have been hammered.

If I leave this site, I will still detect the way I want and live my life the way I want to. I have been water detecting for around 14 years without this site. I didn't come here to ask questions and learn how to detect. I came here with experience and knowledge. I am here to help others and share my experiences. So I shared an experience that people have opinions on. I don't really care about your opinion. It is that simple. I will let everyone know the outcome good or bad. I did what I felt was right at the time and I might do something a bit different next time. My choice.

I REFUSE to let any officer intimidate me as long as I am in the right. If that ruins detecting for others, I guess that is the outcome. BUT, if I was never on this site, NOBODY would have had a clue.

So this is where it stands. I am here, I post my finds and my experiences. You folks decide what you will do if you are ever in the same kind of situation and live your life and enjoy the hobby the way you want to. Give others the same courtesy. IF newcomers ask questions, give them your opinion, HOWEVER, don't try to cram it down their throat. They won't stay and share their finds.

 

[Deft Tones]

Please don't leave the site over this...unless you're in jail from contempt.

I really enjoy looking at your pull-tabs and ring-pulls...and other junk you post from underwater detecting. I applaud you for cleaning up the nation's waterways.

 

[ScubaDetector]

Please don't leave the site over this...unless you're in jail from contempt.

I really enjoy looking at your pull-tabs and ring-pulls...and other junk you post from underwater detecting. I applaud you for cleaning up the nation's waterways.

HMM, I have never tried to make a judge angry, Something to think about? LOL naaa, I will let a judge push me around, just not an officer. So far no judge has ever found me guilty of doing anything wrong while detecting. And most officers have not felt the need to give me citations. Well I did demand one!

My point is I am not leaving, I can see why others might or do when they get ridiculed.