TIRED of Folks Trying to RUN MY LIFE

[ScubaDetector]

Choppadude, Haven't seen you post for a long time. You are partially correct. The spot in question was shared to me by many people. Not just one. It was no secret to anyone in this area. And you are right. i stood up for myself and created the situation. I have that right.

They haven't made new laws because of my actions and IF they do, I guess others will have the right to be upset. Speculating that they will is worthless. The main person wanting drama is making things up to fuel his side and it isn't worth arguing the truth.

 

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[Deft Tones]

Keep on diving on!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... And you are right. i stood up for myself and created the situation.... .

... They haven't made new laws because of my actions and IF they do, I guess others will have the right to be upset. ......

Scuba, sounds like you are admitting that : 1) you did possibly accelerate a situation by defiant behavior (failing to give lip service, even if in-the-right). And that 2) you acknowledge that some genius there might get the idea to create an actual ban or law (because they now see md'rs as trouble-makers, etc...). And 3) if that happens, you will understand why fellow hobbyists can be mad at this now.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please end it....




_________________________Tapatalk Signature_________________________

DT2016

 

[releventchair]

Heh,heh, it is you.
Luck and a safe season to you as well.

 

[Clad 2 meet u]

Just so you know... bringing undo attention and pizzing off the cops will result in them hassling anyone who steps foot in that area. Should have just left and came back another time.

Sec. 52-1-1. - Prohibited in rivers, ditches, fountains, etc., generally.







It shall be unlawful for any person to swim, wade or otherwise immerse his body in the waters of the Detroit River, the Rouge River or in any pond, lake, stream, ditch, canal, sewer, drain, fountain, pool or other natural or artificial body of water within the city, except as otherwise provided in this chapter. Water sport activities, including use of water skis, surfboards, skin-diving equipment and other apparatus which results in submergence of part or all of the human body, shall be deemed to be included under this section.

 

[ScubaDetector]

Greg, I was charged with City Ordinance 23-2-2

The law you posted if you read further has problems is probably NOT used anymore. I say this for three reasons.

1. There are NO lifeguards at Bell Isle

Chapter 52 - SWIMMING[1]

Sec. 52-1-1. - Prohibited in rivers, ditches, fountains, etc., generally.

It shall be unlawful for any person to swim, wade or otherwise immerse his body in the waters of the Detroit River, the Rouge River or in any pond, lake, stream, ditch, canal, sewer, drain, fountain, pool or other natural or artificial body of water within the city, except as otherwise provided in this chapter. Water sport activities, including use of water skis, surfboards, skin-diving equipment and other apparatus which results in submergence of part or all of the human body, shall be deemed to be included under this section.

(Code 1964, § 39-1-81)
Sec. 52-1-2. - Belle Isle Bathing Beach and other approved bathing locations.

During such times as duly appointed lifeguards are on duty and present, swimming and bathing may be permitted at Belle Isle Bathing Beach and the waters immediately adjoining within markers placed to designate an area reserved for bathers or in any other portion of the Detroit River approved for such purpose by the police department, recreation department and the department of health, subject to the regulations described in section 52-1-4.

(Code 1964, § 39-1-82)

State Law reference— Public bathing places, MCL 325.631 et seq., MSA 14.447(101) et seq.
Sec. 52-1-3. - Special regulations applicable to skin divers and water skiers.

(a)

A person equipped with a properly fitted and functioning pressure-supplied underwater breathing apparatus, which covers all portions of the body so that no water can reach the mouth, nostrils or skin may be permitted to enter any body of water listed in section 42-1-1.

(b)

A person equipped with underwater breathing apparatus which does not cover all portions of the body may be permitted to enter a public or semiprivate swimming pool or any portion of the Detroit River approved for such purpose by the police department, recreation department and the department of health, subject to the regulations of these departments.

(c)

A person equipped with water skis, surfboards or other equipment whose use results in partial submergence of the body, while being propelled through or on the water by mechanical means, may be permitted to enter any portion of the Detroit River or other body of water approved for such purpose by the three (3) departments named in this section.

(Code 1964, § 39-1-83)

2. Section 42-1-1 Which is stated above on where you CAN dive is this:

Sec. 42-1-1. - Control of use of city streets, etc., for stringing wires, etc.; permit from public lighting department for stringing wires.

(a)

The public lighting superintendent shall control the use of the city's streets, alleys, parks and public and/or private rights-of-way for the stringing and/or removal of overhead wires, setting of poles, the location of underground conduits and cables to avoid conflict with street lighting, traffic signals, police and fire and other wire communications installations in accordance with this chapter.

(b)

Before any wires, cables or support wires shall be strung from any pole, tower or other structure and before any pole is removed or installed in any street, alley, easement or private or public place in the city, and before the building destruction or removal of underground conduits and/or cables may be effectuated, a permit authorizing such work shall first be obtained from the public lighting superintendent. A quarterly fee will be charged, based on actual time, material, transportation and applicable overhead charges for inspections and consultations required to carry out provisions of this chapter for such a permit. The police department is directed to promptly make a complaint against any person found stringing wires without a permit.

(Code 1964, § 45-1-1)

3. If you read it you can't have a pool in your yard? This was a rule in 1964. I doubt on the books still. If it was on the books, they wouldn't need 23-1-1. It would be redundant.

Just because it is online doesn't make it valid or still in effect. Only a legal expert can figure that one out.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Scuba, thanx for the added explanation.

It's hard for anyone here to 100% tell the on-the-spot "feel" of the situation. Because, sure, there are times when NO AMOUNT of "lip service" will appease a cop . Ie.: it's possible that some yelled demands are unreasonable. Like "drop your pants and spread your cheeks", etc.... Conversely, from the cops point of view, he's left scratching his head (and just getting madder), if someone doesn't comply with initial demands (and goes back underwater, for instance).

You do a good job at pointing out all the legal issues which purport to show you were not breaking any laws. And perhaps you were/are 100% right. But this whole matter no longer seems to be hinging on whether or not you were technically legal (because yes, perhaps you were). It seems that it's only a question of defiance and lip service. And yes, that gets tricky, because at some point, even cops have an obligation to be civil too.

I saw a clip once, where a cop's dash cam captured him pulling over a lady. She hadn't immediately pulled over (she didn't hear or see the siren, or didn't recognize that it was for her, or .... for whatever reason drove a mile before pulling over). The cop is seen YELLING and berating her for what seemed like forever. Whenever she got ready to explain why she hadn't pulled over immediately, he just interupts and yells more. The dressing down and berating went on and on. Finally, whatever minor thing it was she'd gotten pulled over for, got ticketed (tail light out or whatever).

The lady complained. When the footage was reviewed by the cops seniors, he was fired for it. He tried to appeal, in order to keep his job, but .... to no avail.

 

[ScubaDetector]

Tom, I will totally agree with you. By telling me to get out of the water and threatening me with a fine WITHOUT finding any facts and WITHOUT coming closer to talk to me, blaring it out over his PA when I mentioned him he was clear to come closer, HE PISSED ME OFF. When he finally did come closer and REFUSED to hear what I had to say but only threaten me and take my flag. HE PISSED ME OFF MORE. So I went back under. He gave NO LAWFUL ORDERS.

Maybe if there is a next time, I will get out and wait till he leaves and go back in. I do see where that could have saved me the hassle and problems I caused myself. BUT, again my choice. Not the choice of others to tell me how to govern myself.

This is now in the courts hands. Will see what a judge has to say. If found guilty, then he has spoken. HOWEVER, I will always feel I was right and the officer was wrong.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Not the choice of others to tell me how to govern myself.....

Well, if the "governing of yourself" methods led to a new law or rule, then I disagree. In a case like that, your fellow hobbyist *can* tell you and I how to "govern ourselves" (or object to the way we handled it, etc....). Thus at a certain point, yes, we are accountable to our fellow hobbyists as well.

Just hope all this goes well for you and that location.

 

[USMC Reaper]

If the Harbor Master was a prudent master of his harbor, he, or one of his minions, has seen you there on numerous occasions. If this is true it would seem to me that you had both explicit, and implicit, continuous permission as evidenced by the absence of reprimand from the point of initiation to interdiction. Just my thought. Keep the faith and good luck in this.

Semper Fi

 

[Escape]

http://explorepahistory.com/displayimage.php?imgId=1-2-1710

Cops doing strip search rang a bell.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Tom, I will totally agree with you. By telling me to get out of the water and threatening me with a fine WITHOUT finding any facts and WITHOUT coming closer to talk to me, blaring it out over his PA when I mentioned him he was clear to come closer, HE PISSED ME OFF. When he finally did come closer and REFUSED to hear what I had to say but only threaten me and take my flag. HE PISSED ME OFF MORE. So I went back under. He gave NO LAWFUL ORDERS.

Maybe if there is a next time, I will get out and wait till he leaves and go back in. I do see where that could have saved me the hassle and problems I caused myself. BUT, again my choice. Not the choice of others to tell me how to govern myself.

This is now in the courts hands. Will see what a judge has to say. If found guilty, then he has spoken. HOWEVER, I will always feel I was right and the officer was wrong.

My friend, do not urine police officers off. It will not turn out good for you. Complain to the police chief, mayor, and your Representative. If need be, change the law where you do not need a life guard, and other problems that you may have with police. If you still have problems with police, and the mayor, take the city or town to court, and sue for more that you think that you are entitle to. Good diving and good luck in life. It does not pay off to urine people, not good for the heart. Be patience or you be one.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... do not urine police officers off.....

And I would add that Samuel is not saying "you were in the wrong", or "please provide more statute wording that shows you were in-the-right". Perhaps you were in the right. That's not in dispute. He's only saying to "not pizz cops off". Yes, even unreasonable ones (in-so-far as it's within your ability to appease).

Is this fare ? NO. But what in life if "fare" ? Hence sometimes in life we have to give "lip service".

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please end it....

End the insults and attacks now.... Hint this is my 2nd request to end it....

 

[choppadude]

Choppadude, Haven't seen you post for a long time. You are partially correct. The spot in question was shared to me by many people. Not just one. It was no secret to anyone in this area. And you are right. i stood up for myself and created the situation. I have that right.

They haven't made new laws because of my actions and IF they do, I guess others will have the right to be upset. Speculating that they will is worthless. The main person wanting drama is making things up to fuel his side and it isn't worth arguing the truth.

Scuba,
My post was just my opinion and not in any way an attack. When I first read this I actually thought "Man this is just like something I would do!" LOL! We are alot alike. I have made some decisions in my life that many do not agree with. In the end I only have to answer to the man I see in the mirror each morning. If I can look him in the eye then all is good. I still make some questionable decisions but I always deal with the circumstances with my head held high.
Keep us posted as I am very interested in the outsome.

 

[ScubaDetector]

Scuba,
My post was just my opinion and not in any way an attack. When I first read this I actually thought "Man this is just like something I would do!" LOL! We are alot alike. I have made some decisions in my life that many do not agree with. In the end I only have to answer to the man I see in the mirror each morning. If I can look him in the eye then all is good. I still make some questionable decisions but I always deal with the circumstances with my head held high.
Keep us posted as I am very interested in the outsome.

i totally understand. Everyone can give his or her opinion and I totally respect that. I respect all opinions. You and Tom and others have some very sound points. I will probably do something different if there is a next time. When you are in the middle of a confrontation, especially how hard headed I am when it comes to authority, it is often difficult to see another way around the situation.

I tried very hard to not be confrontational or combative on this thread or any thread. Sometimes trying isn't good enough for the powers that be.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Of course, you can hire your own life guard. Good luck and good diving.

 

[cudamark]

i totally understand. Everyone can give his or her opinion and I totally respect that. I respect all opinions. You and Tom and others have some very sound points. I will probably do something different if there is a next time. When you are in the middle of a confrontation, especially how hard headed I am when it comes to authority, it is often difficult to see another way around the situation.

I tried very hard to not be confrontational or combative on this thread or any thread. Sometimes trying isn't good enough for the powers that be.

That's all we can ask for, and the purpose of these discussions. Giving our opinions suggests there might be other ways to handle a situation....not only to you, but, to others who read this thread.

 

[civil_war22]

Dealt with the same arrogance

Folks this is just a legal rant concerning the legality of detecting and the police. I posted on here and another website and some want to condemn me for my actions.

First some history. I was a state police officer when my parents were killed by a guy on drugs that hit them head on after he went over a double yellow line. He got 6 months in jail for killing two people. After that I got cynical and cuffed and stuffed every drunk that I pulled over. I was forced out of the department. I refuse to open myself to criticism as this was over 25 years ago and yes I could have done somethings different but I didn't and I am still here and loving life.

I do NOT care if the police are called on me. If people want to stick their nose in my business that is their problem not mine. I am polite to EVERY officer UNLESS they give me an attitude right off the bat. I GLADLY give one back.

Last Sunday was NO exception. I am diving in a place that is illegal to dive from the letter of the law. You have to have permission from the Detroit Harbormaster in order to dive. LAW HERE:

Swimming and underwater diving; prohibitions. (Detroit River)

(a) A person shall not swim, bathe, or engage in underwater diving operations outside of buoyed and designated swim areas, except when authorized by the city police department harbormaster.

(b) This section does not preclude bona fide commercial salvage diving operations, and emergency and recovery operations by any law enforcement agency.

(Ord. No. 40-97, § 1, 11-26-97)

Not only did I have permission from the Detroit Harbormaster Sgt., I also had permission from the State Police that run the island and the State Conservation officers. I have been diving 4 - 6 days a week all summer since May 31'st in this spot.

Sunday the Wayne County Sheriff patrol boat came well within 200' of my dive flag. I heard an engine in my area and came up to see what JERK didn't know the law. Here is a Sheriff boat with it's lights on. He gets on his PA and demands I get out of the water. He also threatens me with a 500.00 fine. RIGHT OFF the BAT Doesn't talk to me THREATENS. I motion for him to come over and he won't listen to me. One of them grabs my dive flag and takes it. I GO BACK DOWN. I play around some more and guess what? I really piss him off.

I come back up and he is in shallow water going against the seawall. I walk over and he is fuming. Reading me the law and calling the Harbormaster. He refuses to listen. Well the harbormaster came out and said I was getting a citation. He said I only had permission for one day and I brought this on myself. We will see about that one. That is not the case.

I write this because I am being condemned by some. EVERYONE on here deserves to follow the rules as they understand them without ridicule or condemnation. IF I get a citation and I lose in court then the law has spoken. IF NOT, Nobody was in my shoes and nobody has the right to run my life. I am 59 and I know what cops think they can do because I was one.

I go out and find things. It is my life. I highly doubt any legislation will change because of one guy sticking up for himself. If any of you have a run in with the law, you are allowed to do what YOU feel is right within the law. You can leave like they ask, you can try to talk sense into the officer or you can be hard headed and fight back if the officer feels he has the power to throw his badge in your face. I do the second and if I have to, I do the third.

I have NEVER been to jail and don't intend to go there. We have rights within the law. I am going to stick up for mine. You all do what you wish, I won't bash you or say you were stupid for following an officers unlawful demands. PLEASE give me the same courtesy. If you feel I am stupid for talking back to a bully with a badge, so be it. However, blasting me on a public forum is absolutely your right, and some will agree with you. BUT in the end, the law will either treat me fair or I will lose because city ordinances are made for collecting revenue period. I will go down fighting for my rights.

END of RANT. Everyone stay safe and have fun with your life. You only have one to live.

Always be yourself. The people that matter don't mind AND the people that mind don't matter. PEACE

I feel for you buddy. I too am a veteran LEO and honestly I've dealt with the same situation you are in right now except mine being on land. Written permission probably been to the site 5-6 times within a 4 month time span and the landowner had advised neighbor who I was and what I'd be doing and not to worry. Well one day I was digging a signal and along comes a black and white stepping out yelling at me asking me if I know I'm trespassing. I ask kindly do you know you are trespassing? He said he was called here by the neighbor. I told him I had written permission to be there and showed him the letter then h proceeds to go into a spill about how I should be ashamed of myself for making money of poor unsuspecting people that doesn't know what I find. I told him that I at the time was a LEO at the same department that he was at and worked nights and showed him my badge and id and never once got I'm sorry or nothing. The little rat rookie did go tattle on me to my chief. Needless to say with the sorry politics going on in a huge dept like that and the fact my fellow officers didn't even know my own face I moved on to another friendlier dept. I do see where you are coming from though. Law enforcement can without knowing the hobby have a different take on what we truly do and occasionally do make up their own rules and come up with some unfactual off base city codes to go with it.