Things weve learned from Legends of the Supes - and questions for the team

[motel6.5]

What you say is true. His body was found Jan.8,1931,by the posse led by sheriff J.R.Mcfadden. My notes also say that Ruth also deleted out the instructional part of the Gonzales map. If for the sake of a talking point if Ruth was taken out by a human that person
is probably also been deleted out by time. Still I believe the Ruth mine and the LDM are 2 seperate mines .

 

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[Hal Croves]

What you say is true. His body was found Jan.8,1931,by the posse led by sheriff J.R.Mcfadden. My notes also say that Ruth also deleted out the instructional part of the Gonzales map. If for the sake of a talking point if Ruth was taken out by a human that person
is probably also been deleted out by time. Still I believe the Ruth mine and the LDM are 2 seperate mines .

It seems that there are several mines that people are have found over the years stretching from the Salt to Wavers. It would be better to drop the names and start looking at the pattern of discovery locations.

 

[sgtfda]

What you say is true. His body was found Jan.8,1931,by the posse led by sheriff J.R.Mcfadden. My notes also say that Ruth also deleted out the instructional part of the Gonzales map. If for the sake of a talking point if Ruth was taken out by a human that person
is probably also been deleted out by time. Still I believe the Ruth mine and the LDM are 2 seperate mines .

Ruth had 2 holes in his skull. One small one large. At first glance you would think a bullet hole. When a bullet enters the skull it fractures the bone inward. When it exits it fractures the bone outward. Both holes in Ruth's skull were fractured inward. Ruth died of natural causes

 

[Hal Croves]

Ruth had 2 holes in his skull. One small one large. At first glance you would think a bullet hole. When a bullet enters the skull it fractures the bone inward. When it exits it fractures the bone outward. Both holes in Ruth's skull were fractured inward. Ruth died of natural causes

Perhaps, but this is an unsupported personal opinion which fails to explain the two holes. It also contradicts the official medical examiners findings.

Suggested reading:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...rdlicka - Halseth Correspondence Combined.pdf

 

[Azquester]

Perhaps, but this is an unsupported personal opinion which fails to explain the two holes. It also contradicts the official medical examiners findings.

Suggested reading:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...rdlicka - Halseth Correspondence Combined.pdf

I understand Ruth had all the bullets in his gun so that's rules out suicide. Mountain Lion Attack or Indian Tomahawk? Possibly..

Black Jesuit Legion? Injuries look as though he may have been struck with a heavy Jesuit Cross hitting the father and son but they left out the Wholey Spirit?

 

[deducer]

I understand Ruth had all the bullets in his gun so that's rules out suicide. Mountain Lion Attack or Indian Tomahawk? Possibly..

Black Jesuit Legion? Injuries look as though he may have been struck with a heavy Jesuit Cross hitting the father and son but they left out the Wholey Spirit?

Purnell and Keenen, the ranch hands that had packed Ruth into the mountains were at one time, suspects. They were the last to see him.

 

[Hal Croves]

Purnell and Keenen, the ranch hands that had packed Ruth into the mountains were at one time, suspects. They were the last to see him.

Who did they pack for? Hmmm.
I am surprised that they escaped investigation and prosecution. Two characters that are absolutely worth researching.

 

[gollum]

There is a LOT more:

Purnell and Keenan were driving Ruth's Car around town the night after they packed him in. Supposedly (according to Glen Magill) in the 1950s Purnell's Widow was offering to sell previously unseen maps that she got from her late husband.

Lots of interesting stuff there.

Mike

 

[Hal Croves]

There is a LOT more:

Purnell and Keenan were driving Ruth's Car around town the night after they packed him in. Supposedly (according to Glen Magill) in the 1950s Purnell's Widow was offering to sell previously unseen maps that she got from her late husband.

Lots of interesting stuff there.

Mike

Mike, you know your shite.

 

[Cubfan64]

And at least one of them filed a claim or two in the Superstition Mountains later on.

 

[Hal Croves]

And at least one of them filed a claim or two in the Superstition Mountains later on.

That is Fing amazing. Is the location known? It would have to be, right?

 

[somehiker]

Frank:

Maybe two men/two handguns. One large caliber-low velocity (cowboy loads), the other smaller caliber....possibly derringer.
First shot from derringer left him mortally wounded but still moving, second shot from revolver finished him off. Neither shot may have had the velocity to exit through any thicker part of the skull, or the larger may have exited through the palate or an eye socket.
Or....possibly a pick was used, with the second and heavier blow used to finish him off.
It would take a heluva tumble to put two holes in a skull like that.

No confessors. So it's all speculation IMHO.

Mountain Lions go for the neck-spinal cord. Bears can go for the head or neck, or even a leg.....shake em up like a dog and drag them off. Death usually follows quickly from shock and blood loss.

I offered a suggestion a long time ago, that if Ruth's body WAS moved post-mortem, and this was done a few days later, that decomposition and/ or animal predation had left the skull barely attached to the rest of the corpse. If the body had been wrapped in a blanket and draped over a pack horse, I thought it possible that the head may have been "lost" (detached from the corpse) somewhere between the murder site and where the body was recovered. Whoever moved the body wasn't about to backtrack and search for the skull, or if wrapped in a blanket, may not have noticed.

Regards:Wayne

 

[sgtfda]

I thought he was shot also. Until! I'll tell you about it next time I see you.

 

[somehiker]

There is a LOT more:

Purnell and Keenan were driving Ruth's Car around town the night after they packed him in. Supposedly (according to Glen Magill) in the 1950s Purnell's Widow was offering to sell previously unseen maps that she got from her late husband.

Lots of interesting stuff there.

Mike

Interesting yes, but not all that different than what Julia Thomas did.
Could Purnell not have drawn the maps himself ? As others have ?

But I do agree that using his car looks suspicious.
Could that have been payment (in trade) for packing him in ?
What was their explanation ?

Wayne

 

[somehiker]

I thought he was shot also. Until! I'll tell you about it next time I see you.

OK >>>

 

[Cubfan64]

That is Fing amazing. Is the location known? It would have to be, right?

Let me go back through some notes tonight and remind myself of the specifics before I say things that may be incorrect. I know one of them had at least one claim and I THINK it was after Ruth's death. I'll try to get the specifics again tonight

 

[Hal Croves]

Frank:

Maybe two men/two handguns. One large caliber-low velocity (cowboy loads), the other smaller caliber....possibly derringer.
First shot from derringer left him mortally wounded but still moving, second shot from revolver finished him off. Neither shot may have had the velocity to exit through any thicker part of the skull, or the larger may have exited through the palate or an eye socket.
Or....possibly a pick was used, with the second and heavier blow used to finish him off.
It would take a heluva tumble to put two holes in a skull like that.

No confessors. So it's all speculation IMHO.

Mountain Lions go for the neck-spinal cord. Bears can go for the head or neck, or even a leg.....shake em up like a dog and drag them off. Death usually follows quickly from shock and blood loss.

I offered a suggestion a long time ago, that if Ruth's body WAS moved post-mortem, and this was done a few days later, that decomposition and/ or animal predation had left the skull barely attached to the rest of the corpse. If the body had been wrapped in a blanket and draped over a pack horse, I thought it possible that the head may have been "lost" (detached from the corpse) somewhere between the murder site and where the body was recovered. Whoever moved the body wasn't about to backtrack and search for the skull, or if wrapped in a blanket, may not have noticed.

Regards:Wayne

Doubtful that they could mistake bullet holes for a cat bite.
Halseth may have even dropped the ball in communicating the medical findings to AZ officials, hence the lack of an inquiry.

View attachment 1129554

Forensic Dental Evidence: An Investigator's Handbook by C. Michael Bowers.

 

[Cubfan64]

Interesting yes, but not all that different than what Julia Thomas did.
Could Purnell not have drawn the maps himself ? As others have ?

But I do agree that using his car looks suspicious.
Could that have been payment (in trade) for packing him in ?
What was their explanation ?

Wayne

I'll see if I can find that information tonight again too Wayne - I think it's buried in some old threads somewhere. If someone else can confirm, I think the story I heard was that they claimed Ruth "loaned" them the car while he was in the mountains.

I'm sure you'll recall the thread when I mention the fact that there is evidence that Ruth was actually based somewhere other than the QCU prior to his getting packed into the mountains and met Purnell and Keenan through that connection. That ties into the idea that Ruth had actually been in the Superstition Mountains at least once prior to his fateful trip - in fact somewhere on Tom Kollenborn's map that is superimposed on the inside cover of one of his books, he notes where Adolph Ruth camped during an earlier trip with a "?" after it. At one time there was supposed to be proof of a letter or something that confirmed Ruth had been in the mountains a few years prior to the trip when he died.

It's all a great big mess

 

[gollum]

............and if he died of natural causes, and his corpse was laying out in the open for those SUMMER MONTHS, then WHY was the skull described as being "GREEN"? When a skull is green, that means that there are still pieces of meat still clinging to it. Not all the way eaten off or dried out. Something laying out like that will first attract predators (which is why they claim the skull holes were from predators), then when most of the meat is gone, the bugs come in and clean all the bones. Nothing laying out like that for all those months would have been "GREEN". The likely explanation is that Ruth was quietly buried somewhere, after his body was first discovered. When the hubbub didn't die down, and the expedition was announced, that was the alarm bell to dig him up and drop him where someone would find the body. Possibly.

Mike

 

[Cubfan64]

............and if he died of natural causes, and his corpse was laying out in the open for those SUMMER MONTHS, then WHY was the skull described as being "GREEN"? When a skull is green, that means that there are still pieces of meat still clinging to it. Not all the way eaten off or dried out. Something laying out like that will first attract predators (which is why they claim the skull holes were from predators), then when most of the meat is gone, the bugs come in and clean all the bones. Nothing laying out like that for all those months would have been "GREEN". The likely explanation is that Ruth was quietly buried somewhere, after his body was first discovered. When the hubbub didn't die down, and the expedition was announced, that was the alarm bell to dig him up and drop him where someone would find the body. Possibly.

Mike

I think that's a reasonable theory, and the person(s) who found and moved the body may not have been the same person(s) who were involved in the killing (if he was indeed killed). I do believe that if he was killed, there had to have been at least a few people who knew.