Things For Further Research

[mdog]

From "KIT CARSON DAYS (1809-1868)" by Col Christopher Carson c1914 A C McClurg & Co, Chicago:
"The southwest spelled Sante Fe that far Mexican metropolis of the Spanish settlements Pike had reported upon it; in 1806 he had found there one James Purcell(Pursley) an American from Kentucky alreadt domiciled".
In 1795, Capt Louis Villemont on a Mission of the Court of Spain, discovered gold in a stream in what is today's Fairplay, Colorado.
In 1816, Auguste Chouteau, Manuel Lisa, Sylvestre Labadie, Moses Austin, Rufus Easton (Territorial Judge appointed by Thomas Jefferson), and J B C Lucas (longtime friend of Benjamin Franklin and had connection to Thomas Jefferson) formed THE BANK OF ST LOUIS, which accepted furs as collateral for loans to outfit expeditions and fur trappers.
Capt George Hancock Kennerly, related to James Beverly Risqué who had a duel with Thomas Beale in Fincastle, Virginia over Risque' niece, Julia Hancock, did business with this bank after starting a mercantile business in St Louis, 1817.
Julia Hancock stayed with her Kennerly uncles in St Louis before marrying William Clark, of Lewis & Clark.

Thanks, ECS. I've been searching online for a map or notes from the Villemont Expedition but I haven't had any luck yet. If I find anything, I'll post it.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Thanks, ECS. I've been searching online for a map or notes from the Villemont Expedition but I haven't had any luck yet. If I find anything, I'll post it.

INTERESTING! ONE source of the Beale Treasure in Virginia is Villarmont, Va., formerly known as IRONVILLE. Hmmm...

 

[mdog]

INTERESTING! ONE source of the Beale Treasure in Virginia is Villarmont, Va., formerly known as IRONVILLE. Hmmm...

This afternoon I looked up the Beale treasure story and I noticed that too. Does seem kinda strange.

 

[mdog]

Here are a few things for further research for those who are interested in the posts about the Treasure Mountain legend and the area it took place in.

Bernard La Harpe was ordered to explore the Arkansas River during 1719. The main goal of the expedition was to locate a large green stone. Here's an account of the La Harpe expedition by a Lt. Dumont. Start on page 155 and read to 158 and make sure you read footnote 33 on page 158.

https://books.google.com/books?id=K...IKTAC#v=onepage&q=laharpe gold miners&f=false

It could be that the Spanish map recovered after the Villasur massacre might have shown gem deposits on the Arkansas River. Here's a link that shows gem producing areas of Colorado and some are close to the Arkansas River in the same areas that Villemont, Lebreau and Pike were in. Also, It seems the events in the Beale story might have taken part in the general area of Fairplay.

https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2002RM/finalprogram/abstract_34222.htm

In 1736, a Jesuit priest was, Father Aulneau, was supposed to travel from Lake of the Woods, Canada 300 to 400 leagues to the southwest but he was killed in an Indian attack. Here's a link that speaks of his proposed journey. Read the letter that starts on page 47.

https://books.google.com/books?id=h...EINTAE#v=onepage&q=aulneau collection&f=false

300-400 leagues to the southwest would put him in the general area of the Villemont, Lebreau and Pike expeditions. At the time he was killed, Aulneau was staying with trader Pierre Verendrye at Lake of the Woods. This map shows the known extent of Verendrye's exploration. Verendrye had already explored more than halfway to Aulneau's destination.

Canadian Military Heritage

The next three expeditions are those that are shown on the map I posted, Villemont in 1795, Lebreau from 1799-1804 and Pike in 1806. That map you can see on my post number 185.

In 1817, Thomas Beale was supposed to have mined 250-300 miles north of Santa Fe which would have put him in the general area of Fairplay where Villemont found gold and where there are gem deposits.

I don't know if all this stuff is tied together in some way, but it seems interesting.

 

[ECS]

You can still pan for gold in the streams around Fairplay and other streams in that area of Colorado, and find gold nuggets in your pan.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Here are a few things for further research for those who are interested in the posts about the Treasure Mountain legend and the area it took place in.

Bernard La Harpe was ordered to explore the Arkansas River during 1719. The main goal of the expedition was to locate a large green stone. Here's an account of the La Harpe expedition by a Lt. Dumont. Start on page 155 and read to 158 and make sure you read footnote 33 on page 158.

https://books.google.com/books?id=K...IKTAC#v=onepage&q=laharpe gold miners&f=false

It could be that the Spanish map recovered after the Villasur massacre might have shown gem deposits on the Arkansas River. Here's a link that shows gem producing areas of Colorado and some are close to the Arkansas River in the same areas that Villemont, Lebreau and Pike were in. Also, It seems the events in the Beale story might have taken part in the general area of Fairplay.

https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2002RM/finalprogram/abstract_34222.htm

In 1736, a Jesuit priest was, Father Aulneau, was supposed to travel from Lake of the Woods, Canada 300 to 400 leagues to the southwest but he was killed in an Indian attack. Here's a link that speaks of his proposed journey. Read the letter that starts on page 47.

https://books.google.com/books?id=h...EINTAE#v=onepage&q=aulneau collection&f=false

300-400 leagues to the southwest would put him in the general area of the Villemont, Lebreau and Pike expeditions. At the time he was killed, Aulneau was staying with trader Pierre Verendrye at Lake of the Woods. This map shows the known extent of Verendrye's exploration. Verendrye had already explored more than halfway to Aulneau's destination.

Canadian Military Heritage

The next three expeditions are those that are shown on the map I posted, Villemont in 1795, Lebreau from 1799-1804 and Pike in 1806. That map you can see on my post number 185.

In 1817, Thomas Beale was supposed to have mined 250-300 miles north of Santa Fe which would have put him in the general area of Fairplay where Villemont found gold and where there are gem deposits.

I don't know if all this stuff is tied together in some way, but it seems interesting.

GEMS...? !!! Coulda been made into JEWELRY! Beale PAPERS Pamphlet indicate that TJ Beale & Associates/Companions exchanged some of their GOLD/SILVER for JEWELRY in St. Louis, MO. WHAT IF they took their GEMS and had JEWELRY made in "St. Loo" (of those GEMS)...? GOLD! SILVER! JEWELRY! MEANWHILE... back in Virginia, TH'ers are PERPLEXED. OH, WHAT TO DO!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

V I L L A R M O N T - B E A L E

V I L L A M O N T - L E B R E A

You might have one of those organization legends that Steve describes in his book.
Seems to be a U missing, or is it a horseshoe? I've seen something similar that
turned out to be important.

A P P L E-L A K E

K A P E L L A

One P and an E were not used. Also, a K was substituted for a C in Capella.
P=16 and E=5. 16+5=21 and the 21st letter in the alphabet is U.
Is it a U or a horseshoe? Apple Lake used to be called Horseshoe Lake.

GREAT CATCH, "mdog"! CAPELLA is a VERY important STAR, as found on the KGC Cross from L.C. Baker. The "U" IS a horseshoe, with the "horns pointing UP" (FOLKLORE... GOOD LUCK), gaining Strength for the FULL MOON! FULL MOON indicate a GREAT TREASURE in the area. APPLE LAKE is VERY important; man-made lake...? "Feeder-streams/creeks moving in, and then "dammed off"...? Treasure is at the BOTTOM of the AL, under WATER...

 

[mdog]

GREAT CATCH, "mdog"! CAPELLA is a VERY important STAR, as found on the KGC Cross from L.C. Baker. The "U" IS a horseshoe, with the "horns pointing UP" (FOLKLORE... GOOD LUCK), gaining Strength for the FULL MOON! FULL MOON indicate a GREAT TREASURE in the area. APPLE LAKE is VERY important; man-made lake...? "Feeder-streams/creeks moving in, and then "dammed off"...? Treasure is at the BOTTOM of the AL, under WATER...

Yes, I think the star Capella has some symbolic importance. The cross that L.C. posted, along with some other clues, led me to Apple Lake and that led me to the Auriga Constellation I described in my earlier post. The area of that formation is also where the Lebreau Expedition entered the San Luis Valley.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Horse shoe pointing up is like a WAXING MOON... which then becomes a FULL MOON! YO MOMMA!

 

[Dr. Syn]

Though I'll never go looking for these treasures, I do hope that you folks are saving all your knowledge somewhere for those who follow.
That in itself is a treasure. And I thank you all for sharing it.


Anywho, maybe just something or nothing, but Mr. Baker had mentioned a couple of times about lead and copper markers. Don't know if it means a darn thing, but as signs can have multiple meanings, did anyone ever think about the material itself?

Lead is and insulator and sacrificial anode in some cases. Whereas copper is a conductor, and used as a protection material against the elements.
These folks were no dummies, honestly I think they knew a lot more about Mother Earth then we do. Latitude/Longitude, Lay Lines/Magnetic Lines, Star charting, the Sun. So why not use materials that could have a second use? We all know of "hidden in plain sight" was one type of marker used.

Copper and lead, when mixed with an acid, as simple as lemon juice, make a type of battery. So you have the two prime ingredients together, now all you need is a little acid in the soil (ph value, all soil has some acid) and some moisture (rain or a constant moist soil) and bingo you have a battery. Can we read current flow? Sure we have meters that do just that. They can be used to find live wires behind a wall.

With their knowledge, they could easily have read it too. So why not lay out some lead and copper markers, hidden in plain sight, something we might not even take a second look at when traipsing across the land, pass them off as some kind of surveyor mark.
To confuse even more, put a bunch of strange symbols on the two materials.


A map could be made up with just a bunch of numbers, would be pure gibberish to anyone.
But with a bunch of battery powered markers that no one else knows about, it's a walk in the park to find the spot with the map.
All you do is use the "meter" to locate the signal, and follow it till you hit the hot spot, the battery. Look at the map, head in the direction numbers, and find the next battery. One battery's power will drop off as you move away,and the next one's will increase as you get closer.

Dang what a way to hide something. Ingenious! Bunch of folks trying to decipher a bunch of symbols on a piece of lead and copper, if they even find them, or someone with a piece of paper with just lines of numbers, trying to figure out what they mean. When all along the true meaning is hidden in plain sight.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Have YOU ever found anything with this knowledge...? Please share... THANKS! NEVER heard of it...

 

[mdog]

Though I'll never go looking for these treasures, I do hope that you folks are saving all your knowledge somewhere for those who follow.
That in itself is a treasure. And I thank you all for sharing it.


Anywho, maybe just something or nothing, but Mr. Baker had mentioned a couple of times about lead and copper markers. Don't know if it means a darn thing, but as signs can have multiple meanings, did anyone ever think about the material itself?

Lead is and insulator and sacrificial anode in some cases. Whereas copper is a conductor, and used as a protection material against the elements.
These folks were no dummies, honestly I think they knew a lot more about Mother Earth then we do. Latitude/Longitude, Lay Lines/Magnetic Lines, Star charting, the Sun. So why not use materials that could have a second use? We all know of "hidden in plain sight" was one type of marker used.

Copper and lead, when mixed with an acid, as simple as lemon juice, make a type of battery. So you have the two prime ingredients together, now all you need is a little acid in the soil (ph value, all soil has some acid) and some moisture (rain or a constant moist soil) and bingo you have a battery. Can we read current flow? Sure we have meters that do just that. They can be used to find live wires behind a wall.

With their knowledge, they could easily have read it too. So why not lay out some lead and copper markers, hidden in plain sight, something we might not even take a second look at when traipsing across the land, pass them off as some kind of surveyor mark.
To confuse even more, put a bunch of strange symbols on the two materials.


A map could be made up with just a bunch of numbers, would be pure gibberish to anyone.
But with a bunch of battery powered markers that no one else knows about, it's a walk in the park to find the spot with the map.
All you do is use the "meter" to locate the signal, and follow it till you hit the hot spot, the battery. Look at the map, head in the direction numbers, and find the next battery. One battery's power will drop off as you move away,and the next one's will increase as you get closer.

Dang what a way to hide something. Ingenious! Bunch of folks trying to decipher a bunch of symbols on a piece of lead and copper, if they even find them, or someone with a piece of paper with just lines of numbers, trying to figure out what they mean. When all along the true meaning is hidden in plain sight.

Good post, Dr. Syn. It makes sense to me that, if these small metal clues were meant to be dug up, there had to be a way to find them. I think some of L.C.'s stuff was only a couple inches long and no matter how accurate the clues, a two inch object is small and could be easily missed.

 

[Scar]

I am no scientist but couldn't this electric field cause a compass to point in a different direction?

 

[mdog]

I am no scientist but couldn't this electric field cause a compass to point in a different direction?

I have a friend who teaches physics, I'll call him this weekend and see what he says.

 

[sdcfia]

I have a friend who teaches physics, I'll call him this weekend and see what he says.

Theoretically, I guess you could use a low-tech dip needle to find buried metal objects, if they were large enough and close enough to the surface. It would be tedious work, but a clever idea if your search area wasn't too large. That makes sense, but I've always distrusted the need for small buried metal clues, unless they were buried in more modern electronic times.

 

[Scar]

If this theoretical battery could make a compass needle point in a desired direction by placing the compass on top of the marker then it would make written directions useless unless one would know to place the compass on the marker.

 

[mdog]

I am no scientist but couldn't this electric field cause a compass to point in a different direction?

I talked to my physics teacher friend today. Just off the top of his head, he felt a crude battery could be buried several inches underground and be detected by a compass. He said the battery would have to have more than one lead cross or plate as well as the copper strip. Also, there would have to be a copper wire hooked up, in some way, to conduct an electric current. After a current was established, a compass held waist high would be able to detect the current. Also, like Dr. Syn wrote, the soil would have to be wet and acidic. Gardeners could probably tell you how to make soil more acidic and a rain would create moisture. He said he would have to set it up to be sure. Sounds like a good class project for his students.

 

[mdog]

Theoretically, I guess you could use a low-tech dip needle to find buried metal objects, if they were large enough and close enough to the surface. It would be tedious work, but a clever idea if your search area wasn't too large. That makes sense, but I've always distrusted the need for small buried metal clues, unless they were buried in more modern electronic times.

I don't like the idea of the small buried clues. L.C. used a metal detector to find his artifacts, but I'll bet that if those clues were meant to be dug up, there was some type of hand held map involved. Don't know.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I don't like the idea of the small buried clues. L.C. used a metal detector to find his artifacts, but I'll bet that if those clues were meant to be dug up, there was some type of hand held map involved. Don't know.

it was coded to the foot and there was markers known by previous use on other sights. They got you close by coded message and then they told you what to do "so to speak". At least in our case.
L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

This trail only requires knowledge, a compass and a tape measure. That is why most of it is still in the ground.