The Treasure of Captain William Kidd.

[Randawg72]

I left Kidd behind years ago. So frustrating, and of course I had to make a comment, and now look, dragged into a pot full of ridicule, disbelief and arguments.

Mr Edmunds,
I respect your work, and am sorry to have badgered you here. I can't even imagine the hundreds of crackpots you have had to deal with who are 100% positive they know the location of Kidd's treasure. I assure you, I'm no crackpot. The treasure hunting community is pessimistic and quick to judge. Nobody is interested in another theory, they only want hard proof.
I'm critical of others' research, and even more so of my own. I'm screaming inside to share with you what I've learned, and tempted to post my discoveries here for all to see. But I know that would only garner ridicule and counter arguments.
I plan to visit my Island to prove my theory, but current life issues force me to delay that expedition for now. Whether I find anything or not, you will be the first to know. And who knows, maybe someday you might even decide to write the forward to my treasure book?
Sincerely, R G Moore

 

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[Randawg72]

Now (after you had your snooze) do you have any direct prove that those maps are fakes?
Analyses of handwriting, paper, wording?

Ease up a little Bocaj,
George Edmunds is a well noted authority on Captain Kidd and a respected author. And his "Kidd, the search for his treasure" book is the definitive guide to Kidd's treasure charts.
He has already told you the answer to your question is detailed in "Anson's Gold".
Instead of repeating your question, why not just visit your local library and read it?

 

[Bocaj]

Ease up a little Bocaj,
George Edmunds is a well noted authority on Captain Kidd and a respected author. And his "Kidd, the search for his treasure" book is the definitive guide to Kidd's treasure charts.

Well I was a bit taken back by his style. I have seen quite a share of important people in my days, some are modest some less so. They are human beings and so am I. I simply don't like people diminishing me (or you) no matter how respected they are.

Also I am sure that he can understand the reasons and maybe can adapt, we all do mistakes. I do drive a hard bargain you may have noticed. Its not done to hurt anyone, it comes from my swashbuckling, I am sure in civilization they have a finer way to express themself...

Instead of repeating your question, why not just visit your local library and read it?

Maybe they do not have it in any library I can reach? I do not have any access to it if you have a pdf be so kind to send me the link.

 

[CapnGeorge]

You don't 'argue' you are discussing - ok. What are you discussing exactly? You are promoting your book! I have not seen an argument. All I get so far are marching orders and "I know", "its proven", "its solved".


Well then I am certain you loose nothing to send me a pdf version by PM (being helpful was your concern right?).


So you just pass by here and give you underlings some free (almost) advice and then move on to more important things your royalty has to be concerned about?

Now (after you had your snooze) do you have any direct prove that those maps are fakes?
Analyses of handwriting, paper, wording?
Do you have some better resolution, quality copies of the maps to analyze? Any unpublished photos and surveys of the furnitures?
Some information of substance so we can elevate this discussion above the character bashing level?

I won't be sending you anything and won't be ordered around, trying to get someone else to do all the work for you. put your hands in your pocket, pull your finger out and try doing something yourself. I did it, why can't you? I will not be responding to anything else from you. Have a nice day.

 

[Bocaj]

I won't be sending you anything and won't be ordered around, trying to get someone else to do all the work for you. put your hands in your pocket, pull your finger out and try doing something yourself. I did it, why can't you? I will not be responding to anything else from you. Have a nice day.

Sorry, you were the one ordering us to read your book not the other way around! No one was asking your help! I just pointed out that if you truly mean to be helpful you could send us a copy or at least contribute with facts to our discussion here!

When it comes to make my hands dirty I did write 72 messages on this forum with quite a lot of content, you just new doing nothing but promoting a book that you simply claim to be the author of (we have no prove of identity from you sir).

I think you are simply spoiling this thread adding absolute no content, throwing claims around without feeling the need to reason anything so no one will miss you here.

 

[CapnGeorge]

Mr Edmunds,
I respect your work, and am sorry to have badgered you here. I can't even imagine the hundreds of crackpots you have had to deal with who are 100% positive they know the location of Kidd's treasure. I assure you, I'm no crackpot. The treasure hunting community is pessimistic and quick to judge. Nobody is interested in another theory, they only want hard proof.
I'm critical of others' research, and even more so of my own. I'm screaming inside to share with you what I've learned, and tempted to post my discoveries here for all to see. But I know that would only garner ridicule and counter arguments.
I plan to visit my Island to prove my theory, but current life issues force me to delay that expedition for now. Whether I find anything or not, you will be the first to know. And who knows, maybe someday you might even decide to write the forward to my treasure book?
Sincerely, R G Moore

Would be glad to. Your name is somehow familiar. have we communicated in the past?

 

[BeenFishin]

Hey. Im going to chime in because the captain kidd treasure has always been a fun thing my family always talked about. From what we’ve heard, kidd buried his treasure on gardiners island. When he was arrested in boston he gave the location of the treasure to the authorities at the time, to try to get out of being sent back to london. These people then got the treasure off gardiners island and took it back to mass. And just like anyone with half a brain today…they didnt tell anyone they got it.

Just a local rumor. Theres a road and a hill named after kidd in mattituck where many, many people have searched for his treasure. But honestly, who is going to tell anyone they found a huge amount of treasure?

 

[Randawg72]

Would be glad to. Your name is somehow familiar. have we communicated in the past?

Good recall Mr Edmunds,
I may have emailed you once or twice through your website. Thank you for your comment, it really made my day!

 

[CapnGeorge]

Ease up a little Bocaj,
George Edmunds is a well noted authority on Captain Kidd and a respected author. And his "Kidd, the search for his treasure" book is the definitive guide to Kidd's treasure charts.
He has already told you the answer to your question is detailed in "Anson's Gold".
Instead of repeating your question, why not just visit your local library and read it?

Some people just don't get it, do they? I like a man who talks common sense. Thank you.

 

[Bocaj]

Hey. Im going to chime in because the captain kidd treasure has always been a fun thing my family always talked about. From what we’ve heard, kidd buried his treasure on gardiners island. When he was arrested in boston he gave the location of the treasure to the authorities at the time, to try to get out of being sent back to london. These people then got the treasure off gardiners island and took it back to mass. And just like anyone with half a brain today…they didnt tell anyone they got it.

Just a local rumor. Theres a road and a hill named after kidd in mattituck where many, many people have searched for his treasure. But honestly, who is going to tell anyone they found a huge amount of treasure?

Legally it was questionable even in the times of Kidd as his treasure was taken from parties that would have reclaimed them in British courts as recompension. It is the most probable outcome anyway that this treasure has long been discovered but not been published.

 

[Randawg72]

Some people just don't get it, do they? I like a man who talks common sense. Thank you.

You're welcome.
Please check back on our little discussion any time.

 

[CapnGeorge]

Ahoy - I believe Wilkins drew those "charts" himself. He is a remarkably unreliable author.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

You are spot on! Nice to see common sense.

 

[CapnGeorge]

Legally it was questionable even in the times of Kidd as his treasure was taken from parties that would have reclaimed them in British courts as recompension. It is the most probable outcome anyway that this treasure has long been discovered but not been published.

The Gardner's Island treasure is the only genuine Kidd treasure. But there are many myths/stories of Kidd burying treasure all along the East Coast - just stories! You have to remember, most pirates spent their loot on having a good time.

 

[Bocaj]

The Gardner's Island treasure is the only genuine Kidd treasure. But there are many myths/stories of Kidd burying treasure all along the East Coast - just stories!

More than that how would he even amount to a treasure of 100k£? He had no reason to hide any before his expedition as he was a respected citizen of New York married to a rich widow - no one would have asked question where the money came from. The only situation that would made him bury treasure is him being wanted as enemy of all mankind (he in a line with Avery). That would compare to be wanted as a kind of "bin Laden" nowadays. Quite possible he had the idea (as he did in Gardner's Island) to bury the treasure he was carrying.

But this is the point where for me the tale stops and the fairy tale starts. The whole haul was worth optimistically spoken 150k£. his own share much below that number discounting the sloop he bought, the investors and the crew's share and what was discovered at Gardner's Island. Most of it had to be (fast) converted from good to precious metal and stones at quite a loss I assume. It simply does not add up!

Even if, how would he taken it of the ship under the watchful eyes of a very mistrusting and disloyal crew (well documented)? At least they would know where the ship stopped on the way back. How would he (even assuming he had the strength of Hulk Hogan) carry the weight of such a huge amount of gold into a boat and then on shore?

Kidd's treasure was buried in Peter Pan's Neverland. I never read any book about it, all the Oak island theories had no attraction to me (they still don't).

I study a lot of traditional navigation and some of the pirates and privateers were excellent navigators and sailors, Avery among them. That's how I came to this forum and found Crow's well researched thread and Avery mentioning those two letters. One of them was told by a certain "W.K.". With the letters Kidd's story started to make sense again. I also had a new look at Palmer's maps and while I still doubt the authenticity I can't dismiss the similarities of the important details in both them and the letters.

Him getting knowledge of Avery's treasure would be possible after all he was task to bring the pirate rounders treasure back as the main economic focus of his mission. His crew didn't need to know of it, he could have visited the place under some pretext, he didn't need to bring it on board. He could have re-buried it on the same island he found it (that would have been physically possible I think).

You have to remember, most pirates spent their loot on having a good time.

A rather weak argument because Kidd was anything but a 'normal' pirate. I would not even call him that, many privateers had a rather blurred idea of the limits of their trade and got away with much worse!

 

[Randawg72]

So Captain Kidd never hid any treasure?

But we are to believe that a known fraudster named Wilkins drew some fake charts and hid them in furniture (disguising them as Kidd charts) that secretly lead to a different treasure hidden by a Spanish captain named Ubilla? And since a dead Admiral couldn't find this mythical loot, but left some cryptic clues carved on a monument, we should all drop everything and look for this substitute treasure instead?

Merriam-Webster defines Occam's razor as "a scientific and philosophical rule that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex explanations."

If this rule is true, why is it so easy for people to believe in hoaxes, frauds, secret ciphers, alternate treasures, curses, and conspiracy theories, but they refuse to accept that some guy facing criminal charges simply hid his money in a cave?

 

[Bocaj]

A text I found that gives a bit of historic background to Kidd's voyage.

I think it is best to get the whole discussion away from those maps...

 

[Randawg72]

I think it is best to get the whole discussion away from those maps...

True. What if the Kidd/Palmer charts were never discovered? We would still know that
Kidd took a large treasure ship filled with valuable cargo. We would know that he hid some treasure on Gardiner's Island, and claimed to have hidden an even larger stash in the "Indies".

And if Kidd were such a prolific liar, then why does the rest of his court testimony appear to be truthful and accurate?

Trial of Captain Kidd:
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.173704/page/n135/mode/2up?view=theater

 

[Bocaj]

True. What if the Kidd/Palmer charts were never discovered? We would still know that
Kidd took a large treasure ship filled with valuable cargo. We would know that he hid some treasure on Gardiner's Island, and claimed to have hidden an even larger stash in the "Indies".

And if Kidd were such a prolific liar, then why does the rest of his court testimony appear to be truthful and accurate?

Trial of Captain Kidd:
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.173704/page/n135/mode/2up?view=theater

What do you think about Paul Hawkins? I discovered he came to the same conclusion I did: that Kidd's treasure is really Avery's and that Kidd's mission was to reclaim it from wherever Avery hid it! (I am only sure about the first part, the last one I never found a prove)

 

[Randawg72]

What do you think about Paul Hawkins?

I really don't know much about Hawkins at all. From what I read on Edmunds' site, he is a historian and treasure hunter that falsely claims to have solved the Kidd charts.

 

[Bocaj]

I really don't know much about Hawkins at all. From what I read on Edmunds' site, he is a historian and treasure hunter that falsely claims to have solved the Kidd charts.

From what I read on his defunct website he found his (the) island on an atoll in the Indian ocean and visited it on a yacht around 2010. Some photos with a turtle on a white beach as a prove. Then nothing, the site being still online till 2018. I guess the Turtles were all they found (20 of them I am sure of)