The State is attempting to Pirate the Shipwreck from JWI!

All these posts of the raping of Native American sites and likely theft of Native American artifacts as well as the likely theft of historical items and artifacts turned over to the State by Salvors and others, is all the more reason that the Justice Department needs to get involved to force them to open the vaults and books and take inventory of everything that is supposed to be there and if not there, who or what institution has the items that are missing. It could lead to hundreds of subpoenas and warrants as well as arrests but as I stated before, someone needs to get the ball-a-rolling.
 

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where are the "publically owed.... state controlled items" that were turned over to the state as the "public's cut" of these contracts ...where is the master list showing EXACTLY WHAT THEY GOT AND WHERE ITS CURRENTLY AT -- who is accountable for the stuff?....
 

It is a well known fact that former governor Lawton Chiles gave 8 escudo gold coins as a gift to visiting dignitaries.
 

I can tell by your wording that you work in a government job or are associated with Archies.
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Absolutely NOT. I see that you would rather attack me than consider the parameters set forth in the post.

It serves no one to keep a find and sell it on the black market. The salvor loses in the long run.

I will not succumb to a fallacy of logic and "attack the person" but your above statement is riddled with miss interpretations of facts. 80% and 20% of what If the State has the right to take the truly one of a kind, "unique" items for public curation and care and, one uses value as a percent measurement, they ae the ones getting the 80%.
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EXACTLY the point of my post.

Salvors continue to have it handed to them in court, yet fail to see why, other than a victim mentality.
 

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I am not attacking you per se. What experience do you have working with Government Depts obtaining a salvage permit or what experience do you have working with a Government Archaeologist on your private project. Other salvors on this site and myself have experience from the College of Hardknocks. Where did you get the experience to come up with the logic that you propose? How many Government contracts have you negotiated.
I personally did 4 years of research into Manila Galleons alone and have some very interesting ideas of what I will do with my current project which a number of people in my business have called very innovative. EXPERIENCE?
 

xaos said:
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The State gets 20% or so, of what, a bunch of disconnected, out of context artifacts from the bottom. What would you expect them to do with that? The treasure hunter gets 80% and has to document what according to the agreement? I don't really know, I am asking. What is the state budget that was set up in the court ruling to deal with the 20%, or is it just dumped on them?

Would it be better to have the state do the research, determine the context and provenance. perhaps add value to the treasure? It seems to me that the process needs to be set up and detailed, not a simple shotgun approach with 80/20. that is not sustainable (as we can see)

Has anyone representing treasure hunters in Florida ever proposed a process or system to deal with the finds?
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The state receives their artifacts as per their request. They also receive the daily field note and activity logs. They also receive a seasonal report from the private sector hired staff archeologist. What they do with the artifacts and context is up to them ultimately, but I would expect them to properly conserve the artifacts and process the data points and context to a publication as that would stop them from being hypocritical.

From sources apparently the state budget and staffing isn't enough to "deal" with the 20% that they request, not dumped upon them, lol!

Shouldn't wise men and women, educated men and women stop requesting artifacts, then?

Private sector salvage has efficiently and properly been "dealing" with the finds for decades. As noted Mel Fisher's organizations and museums.

I hear the Key West museum is the most visited museum in the Southeast United States!
 

Au_Dreamers said:
The state receives their artifacts as per their request. They also receive the daily field note and activity logs. They also receive a seasonal report from the private sector hired staff archeologist. 1) What they do with the artifacts and context is up to them ultimately, but I would expect them to properly conserve the artifacts and process the data points and context to a publication as that would stop them from being hypocritical.

2) From sources apparently the state budget and staffing isn't enough to "deal" with the 20% that they request, not dumped upon them, lol!

Shouldn't wise men and women, educated men and women stop requesting artifacts, then?

Private sector salvage has efficiently and properly been "dealing" with the finds for decades. As noted Mel Fisher's organizations and museums.

I hear the Key West museum is the most visited museum in the Southeast United States!
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1) That seems to be their thinking but do not all of the artifacts that they receive from whatever source (confiscated individual find or turned over by Salvors per the State's request or State/University/Museum Sponsored Archaeological Digs) belong to the People (i.e. the Public/Citizens) of Florida and they should have a say in what is done with them??!! By Law, the State of Florida...it's Division of Historical Resources and their' employees are only the Caretakers of the same artifacts for the People of Florida and their' jobs are to receive, catalog, preserve, care for, secure and some times loan or display the same items. It is not their' right and/or duty to give any of the same items as gifts to Governors, other politicians, to State or Foreign Dignitaries or themselves or to sell them or steal them!

2) I wonder if this is their justification for gifting, selling or stealing the artifacts because they are just too many to deal with!!?? In any case, this is theft of State and Public resources/artifacts.


Added "or State/University/Museum Sponsored Archaeological Digs" to item 1)...
 

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I'm just curious about where I can see all the artifacts the state has been collecting for all these years. They must have a pretty good collection.
 

NSB Diver said:
I'm just curious about where I can see all the artifacts the state has been collecting for all these years. They must have a pretty good collection.
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Likely in your dreams because if they will not give a sitting Representative access to them, it is highly unlikely that they will give you access.
 

It seems the FBI is investigating corruption at the highest levels in florida government !! Just saw it on the news. Perhaps a tip could help them with there investigation !! Im sure they would love to see a full accounting of all the treasure that is in state control, and imagine what they would uncover reguarding double dealing by the state with treasure salvage permits. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. Wonder if miss ileana ross leighton has contacted the FBI in reguards to her request to have an accounting of the states treasure. Wonder if she could be asked to just that by us the citezens. Capt. Dom call the FBI , maybe they would be interested to hear your story. Just an idea. Good luck Dom.
 

Maybe the FBI could be linked to some of the nightmare stories and known thefts concerning the State of Florida and it's employees that have been post here of TNET. If there any sudden resignations and/or retirement of State of Florida Officials and/or it's employees, then it is likely that the crap is going to hit the fan per se. At least we can wish, hope and pray that that happens!
 

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As the expression goes, Speak now or forever hold your “piece” (or in our case, forever relinquish your “piece” of history to the state... the time to pull together and be heard is now... not after they have taken everything away...
 

Blak bart said:
It seems the FBI is investigating corruption at the highest levels in florida government !! Just saw it on the news. Perhaps a tip could help them with there investigation !! Im sure they would love to see a full accounting of all the treasure that is in state control, and imagine what they would uncover reguarding double dealing by the state with treasure salvage permits. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. Wonder if miss ileana ross leighton has contacted the FBI in reguards to her request to have an accounting of the states treasure. Wonder if she could be asked to just that by us the citezens. Capt. Dom call the FBI , maybe they would be interested to hear your story. Just an idea. Good luck Dom.
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Well...that is not new news, but it sure confusing, like most things about government.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...das-capital-and-fallout-could-huge/566090001/

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...-corruption-probe-what-we-know-explained.html

https://www.breitbart.com/big-gover...-tallahassee-during-andrew-gillums-mayorship/

https://www.politico.com/states/flo...ubernatorial-nominee-faces-tough-climb-586239
 

 

No different than what I experienced in 1977 when I was refused permission to dive on the Jupiter Wreck which was under jurisdiction of the Jupiter Inlet Commission, at least so they claimed. Sometimes it is best not to ask--just go for it.
 

Dominic, any updates on this situation? (Ive heard something but Id rather hear it from you.)


Earlier you wrote: "They (the state) also would not allow us to expand our search area."

You and I and three other people were with the Secretary of State in Jupiter several years back when he said the DHR would not oppose an expansion of your state lease area if the Admiralty courts approved the expansion.​
 

Whatever happened here?

I have a similar complaint with the state of CA regarding the location of 200 double eagles from the Brother Jonathon. No support from Ca has been given to the BJ museum.
 

as many in the salvage business know , it was me that helped stop the state from enacting a plan that required a state approved archie from a certain group to be on your permit apps to "qualify" for a salvage permit ( the group had a clause in its membership rules that forbade any of its members from working for ANY for profit salvors ) --so the minute any member of the group said they would be your project archie they would be kicked out of the group * since they would not be in the group of "state approved" archies anymore --thus your permit would of course be automatically DENIED --it was I that pointed this impossible to meet "legal catch 22" that if put in effect would make it legally impossible for ANY for profit salvors to EVER get a permit * i also on the record stated that the salvors could and would sue for restraint of trade /denial of livelihood and based upon the knowledge i presented that they would easily win -- i also said since as a FLA taxpayer / resident i have made you people aware of these facts and the legal lawsuit would force the state to payout public tax dollars --and that it would be "gross malfeasance of fiscal duty" for which they could all lose their jobs ... the FLA state sec who was there rapidly come over to them as whispered and they stated that they would drop the plan....
i also attended a archie fest event in St Augustine some time back (strictly to keep tabs of what their up to) i saw and heard the FLA state archies at that event on stage crowing about not issuing any new leases for a long time __ basically bragging about betaking the law* in the mel fisher court case the judge knew the state was petty and vindictive so he ordered the state to set up a permitting process to issue permits -0-they have tuned into a " look and see ,research only" permit process by requiring different permits all which they will issue (except the actual all important salvage permit --so they "data mine/; you but you get 0 in return --it is a old scam they been running for a long time -- i do not just say their crooked --i know they are
 

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ivan salis said:
as many in the salvage business know , it was me that helped stop the state from enacting a plan that required a state approved archie from a certain group to be on your permit apps to "qualify" for a salvage permit ( the group had a clause in its membership rules that forbade any of its members from working for ANY for profit salvors ) --so the minute any member of the group said they would be your project archie they would be kicked out of the group * since they would not be in the group of "state approved" archies anymore --thus your permit would of course be automatically DENIED --it was I that pointed this impossible to meet "legal catch 22" that if put in effect would make it legally impossible for ANY for profit salvors to EVER get a permit * i also on the record stated that the salvors could and would sue for restraint of trade /denial of livelihood and based upon the knowledge i presented that they would easily win -- i also said since as a FLA taxpayer / resident i have made you people aware of these facts and the legal lawsuit would force the state to payout public tax dollars --and that it would be "gross malfeasance of fiscal duty" for which they could all lose their jobs ... the FLA state sec who was there rapidly come over to them as whispered and they stated that they would drop the plan....
i also attended a archie fest event in St Augustine some time back (strictly to keep tabs of what their up to) i saw and heard the FLA state archies at that event on stage crowing about not issuing any new leases for a long time __ basically bragging about betaking the law* in the mel fisher court case the judge knew the state was petty and vindictive so he ordered the state to set up a permitting process to issue permits -0-they have tuned into a " look and see ,research only" permit process by requiring different permits all which they will issue (except the actual all important salvage permit --so they "data mine/; you but you get 0 in return --it is a old scam they been running for a long time -- i do not just say their crooked --i know they are
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Do you think the governor would help?

.....and thanks for the update, such as it is.

bob
 

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